TromboneChat

I play on a Tru-Bore valve and love it- personal sound concept, response, taste and all that. But I haven't seen all that many pros in orchestras, small-brass ensembles, and the like playing on one, or if I do, it seems to be a rarity. Any thoughts on why this may be the case?

Pros often are like sheep. They bring the latest "official" version to the gig because a lot of the contractors (who hire for gigs) listen with their eyes. Sure, some really prefer the axials. Some prefer Hagmanns. There's nothing wrong with the Trubore. For that matter, there's nothing wrong with a rotor. Provided it fits your playing.

Not a top-flight orchestral pro with a job here, but I've owned and used trubores on bass in the past.

They make some aspects of the horn very easy, no doubt, but it was always the sound that didn't do it for me. In my first stint with them, I constantly had people mistake my sound for tenor trombone. Of course: most of that was my playing at the time. Still, when I changed out the valves or eventually got a new horn, those comments went away.

I more recently borrowed a set for a while. I ran into the same problems. The sound wouldn't "widen" when I opened up the dynamic- it would get louder, sure, but not in the way even a good set of rotors will do. It's a very strange feeling.

I think they are the right choice for some, but I can also see why others wouldn't land on them for a first choice (including myself).

The action on them is noticeably... different... than other ones too. Rotors are typically much easier actions. Although that didn't stop me from playing a Tru-Bore for a few years. I also had ergonomic issues with mine. The lower tube made it difficult for me to put a rest aid on in a position that I thought was comfortable because it brought my hand too close to said tube.

Ken Thompkins in Detroit was using one for a few years. Think he's gone to a vintage Bach with an updated rotor, however.

I can think of a couple other soloist/orchestral types that have had them in the toolkit, but maybe not exclusive. I can buy Aiden's thoughts above about why they don't fit for a lot of bass players. I think that actually would help a lot of bass players that get carried away too easily; but that's another discussion.

I like mine, but I prefer that nobody tries to pay me to play things,
Andy

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:49 am Pros often are like sheep. They bring the latest "official" version to the gig because a lot of the contractors (who hire for gigs) listen with their eyes.

What a bunch of nonsense, Bruce.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:49 am Pros often are like sheep. They bring the latest "official" version to the gig because a lot of the contractors (who hire for gigs) listen with their eyes.

I doubt that. Perhaps once this could have been true.

These days most of the "pros" that I know bring what works for them / what makes them sound best. They often experiment & try different equipment. If it plays better (in their mind, not the contractor's), and can blend with others, they'll switch. You'll seldom see a trombone section (or a trumpet section) playing all the same brand/model.

To prove this to yourself, look at some videos of your favorite big bands / orchestras.

NYC bass trombonist Max Seigel uses a Shires with dependent Tru-bores. He also has an M&W modified Holton TR-185; not sure which of the two are his "main" horn, unless he plays both equally often. In any case, he's one pro who uses Tru-bores.

biggestbrain wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:11 pm NYC bass trombonist Max Seigel uses a Shires with dependent Tru-bores. He also has an M&W modified Holton TR-185; not sure which of the two are his "main" horn, unless he plays both equally often. In any case, he's one pro who uses Tru-bores.

The horn Max is playing on tour with Michael Buble at present is his M&W Custom single valve with plug in dependent D valve. (Note it is not a modified Holton, it is a complete M&W with M&W rotor valves) I took this picture at the concert in Milwaukee a couple weeks ago.

No one cares what valve you are playing on if you sound amazing using it. You shouldn't care about what the cool kids are using either, because a valve won't make you sound like them. You can only ever sound like you, and some tools might make it easier or harder to sound like you.

The way to decide on your tru-bores is to A/B them next to whatever else you play on, with a good set of honest ears out in front.

TheBoneRanger wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:05 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:49 am Pros often are like sheep. They bring the latest "official" version to the gig because a lot of the contractors (who hire for gigs) listen with their eyes.

What a bunch of nonsense, Bruce.

Yep.

TheBoneRanger wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:05 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:49 am Pros often are like sheep. They bring the latest "official" version to the gig because a lot of the contractors (who hire for gigs) listen with their eyes.

What a bunch of nonsense, Bruce.

Well his statement is somewhat true but not because of contractors' views.

I used TruBore valves for years until recently when I got a nice set of Shires rotors. I'm finding pretty much what Aiden described above.

My BU colleague Don Lucas uses one. Brad Edwards played on a Shires with a TruBore for a long time.

GabrielRice wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:34 am I used TruBore valves for years until recently when I got a nice set of Shires rotors. I'm finding pretty much what Aiden described above.

My BU colleague Don Lucas uses one. Brad Edwards played on a Shires with a TruBore for a long time.

What????????????? Shires rotors now???

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:56 am
What????????????? Shires rotors now???

Shires rotors on a bass are great. I went from axials to those and don't plan to ever go back. Many pro bass players use axials, but not me. Guess I'm less sheepy than some.

I saw John Engelkes using truebores at the 2016 ITF at eastman. Can't say how often he uses them.

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:56 am What????????????? Shires rotors now???

Yes! Very happy with them. Other things about my setup (and me) have changed since the last time I seriously tried a set, and the whole system is working well. A big upside is that playing double rotors most of the time makes the switch to my single rotor section more immediately comfortable...and I LOVE playing the single rotor when I don't need two valves.

GabrielRice wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:41 am

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:56 am What????????????? Shires rotors now???

Yes! Very happy with them. Other things about my setup (and me) have changed since the last time I seriously tried a set, and the whole system is working well. A big upside is that playing double rotors most of the time makes the switch to my single rotor section more immediately comfortable...and I LOVE playing the single rotor when I don't need two valves.

Ilan has some great thoughts about valves..

Thanks very much to all who responded. The discussion and context surrounding the values have been useful and thought-provoking.

Enjoying reading this thread! I’ve just borrowed a Truebore Shores bass (dependant) from a colleague and first touch felt super, very open through one valve at a time, just like playing naturally. 2 plugs a bit stuffy. I’m used to thayers on an Edwards which offer more resistance, but it’s consistent. . . . Lightweight bell is no good for me, I use a 20 gauge red brass 10 incher, but still, for quiet stuff it’s pleasing.

Not sold. Need to try for longer. . . . But, it REALLY digs into the neck!

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:47 pm No one cares what valve you are playing on if you sound amazing using it. You shouldn't care about what the cool kids are using either, because a valve won't make you sound like them. You can only ever sound like you, and some tools might make it easier or harder to sound like you.

The way to decide on your tru-bores is to A/B them next to whatever else you play on, with a good set of honest ears out in front.

Amen to that.

I know some freelancing bass trombonists that play TruBore horns, as I know some who play Shire's axials. Of those I've tried, I found myself playing best with rotor valves, though I'm not entirely sure I sounded the best on them; for that I have to do more extensive testing.

However: My search for a good double-valved, independent bass is over for now - and probably for a long time - since I get along very well with my 62H.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:49 am Pros often are like sheep. They bring the latest "official" version to the gig because a lot of the contractors (who hire for gigs) listen with their eyes.

Not sure what makes you exactly say it, but that statement is not true. Furthermore, a gig you (don’t) get because of the valve section (!!!) you use, is not a gig worth having.

Other pros using the tru-bore valve:
Paul Radke - 2nd trombone, LA Phil
David Bruestle - Principal trombone, Rochester Philharmonic

Radke in LA Phil
Greg Hammond in Pershing’s Own

Both are as musical of players as they come- and have spectacular versatility of sound. Colours on Colours.