TromboneChat

I'm short one case for my trombones, so I like to keep my Yamaha 354/S mixed horn out on the stand and leave the Olds Ambassador and other parts of the 354 and S in the other case. It's also nice in case I want to just gum around a bit.

I've been getting into woodworking and have acquired a number of tools, but I'm here to ask whether anyone has created a successful design for a wall hanger - especially one where it can be placed at sort of an angle, for cool display as well.

Thoughts?

You can do it with two pegs.  One goes where one of the slide braces meets the upper tube (probably the cork barrel) and the other adjusts how much the trombone swings, so it will be pressing down somewhere near the gooseneck.  If you want, you can make both pegs hooks (or at least one of them).

I did something similar and lkreally liked the results

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1M3Z-38CgtEU1PP4Sh1cj_MTNrJa1EtFS

Getting back into this - cuz not I'm starting to really need it!

Quote from: BGuttman on Dec 29, 2017, 11:35AMYou can do it with two pegs.  One goes where one of the slide braces meets the upper tube (probably the cork barrel) and the other adjusts how much the trombone swings, so it will be pressing down somewhere near the gooseneck.  If you want, you can make both pegs hooks (or at least one of them).

Bruce, it sounds logical. Is that a sturdy system? I'd definitely like to see a photo to see how it works out.

Matt, your solution looks pretty cool! Though it's a bit on the bulky for what I need - my room ain't all too big. Great idea and it looks sturdy though!

I bought a pair of those shelf mount like you've got - initially I'd intended on actually hanging a shelf with them but perhaps I'll use them instead for the build.
I'm going to do a 3d mockup of my design in hopes that I come up with something like what you've got, Matt.

I was going to do something much more elaborate but then I realized I could make that for way less work.  Yeah if space is an issue you wouldn't have to use a full shelf. You could instead just use a single one of those L brackets and put a slender piece of wood on it and it would be just as fine.  Make sure you get a good L bracket. Those ones are rated at like 1k pounds.  Other ones without the triangle support were like less than 100.  They're probably still sturdy enough for a horn but I don't know with it being that far away from the wall how the physics of that would work.  Better safe than sorry!

Quote from: Matt K on Jan 24, 2018, 03:19PMI was going to do something much more elaborate but then I realized I could make that for way less work.  Yeah if space is an issue you wouldn't have to use a full shelf. You could instead just use a single one of those L brackets and put a slender piece of wood on it and it would be just as fine.  Make sure you get a good L bracket. Those ones are rated at like 1k pounds.  Other ones without the triangle support were like less than 100.  They're probably still sturdy enough for a horn but I don't know with it being that far away from the wall how the physics of that would work.  Better safe than sorry!


What I'm actually thinking is doing something similar as follow; a slim piece of wood laid over the top of the shelf bracket, but then when I'm going to store the horn, it'd go on slide-first, so that the slide is I guess "straddling" the support, or sort of wrapped around it and against the wall. Then more of the weight is leaning TOWARDS the sturdy wall (hopefully), and I can maybe even put some stoppers or something on the wall right where the tuning slide (or handslide bow, depending on how the horn is weighted) is going to want to lean toward the wall.

It isn't immediately evident, but you can see in the pictures that I linked that for the bass and double valved tenor, I also attached two pieces of wood together and put the Y shaped... hook(?) in it. It actually rotates so that if a slide is of a different length, all you have to do is rotate it a little and it provides support for the slide at that height.  You could easily do that sideways and have the best of both worlds too.  I did that because I wanted all my horns out at the same time!

Quote from: Matt K on Jan 24, 2018, 05:28PMIt isn't immediately evident, but you can see in the pictures that I linked that for the bass and double valved tenor, I also attached two pieces of wood together and put the Y shaped... hook(?) in it. It actually rotates so that if a slide is of a different length, all you have to do is rotate it a little and it provides support for the slide at that height.  You could easily do that sideways and have the best of both worlds too.  I did that because I wanted all my horns out at the same time!

Ahh, I see! How does that Y-hook stay "stuck" in there stiff enough? Do you end up having to screw it in again every couple weeks?

Here's a quick mockup I did of my design. It's obviously not complete or even correct in some spots, as its lacking a LOT of support - I'm going to expand the main wood block and lower the dowel/'stick' that the plunger is on so the whole bell can rest UPON the wood block rather than hang over it. Then I'll think up some sort of things for slide support as well.



also don't criticize the modelling skills too hard... I probably made the trombone model itself in high school 4 or 5 years ago and didn't know too much about the anatomy of a trombone 

I have to marvel at your skill in CAD and especially in solid reproductions.  I first learned Computer Aided Drafting some 40 years ago and worked with the very first Beta of AutoCAD.  I've done a little dabbling with Solid Works, but it would take me a week to do what you are showing.

I thought you wanted to have the trombone at a diagonal.  That's why I suggested the two pegs/hooks.

Quote from: davdud101 on Jan 24, 2018, 08:08PMAhh, I see! How does that Y-hook stay "stuck" in there stiff enough? Do you end up having to screw it in again every couple weeks?
The pilot hole I drilled was smaller than the screw so it's pretty stiff.  I've never had to readjust it but I also moved so I don't use it anymore. I used it for around 9 months but I also didn't play every horn every day. So YMMV!

QuoteHere's a quick mockup I did of my design. It's obviously not complete or even correct in some spots, as its lacking a LOT of support - I'm going to expand the main wood block and lower the dowel/'stick' that the plunger is on so the whole bell can rest UPON the wood block rather than hang over it. Then I'll think up some sort of things for slide support as well.



also don't criticize the modelling skills too hard... I probably made the trombone model itself in high school 4 or 5 years ago and didn't know too much about the anatomy of a trombone 

Looks pretty good to me.  Now I will say that you'll notice on the two on the right that have the "Y" support that they have some weather stripping on both sides. That's because even with a super narrow piece of wood, I would always manage to hit the slide on the board.  In hindsight, I liked that design but if I had your design I'd drive myself crazy because I'm super clumsy!    If you have a straight horn, I'd probably stick to keeping the slide on the outside or on the left or right.  Not against the wall.  It's just too easy to hit the slide against the wood.    If you choose the left/right side it shouldn't even take up all that much extra space too, since t's largely flush with the bell. 

Depending on how handy you are, you could even suspend another small board from the wall and make it so that the slide rests on that. You'd get the best of both worlds in that you would get slide support without needing to constantly put the slide between the board.

BTW the cad looks awesome.

Quote from: Matt K on Dec 29, 2017, 12:08PMI did something similar and lkreally liked the results

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1M3Z-38CgtEU1PP4Sh1cj_MTNrJa1EtFS

Good job! 

Quote from: BGuttman on Jan 24, 2018, 08:35PMI have to marvel at your skill in CAD and especially in solid reproductions.  I first learned Computer Aided Drafting some 40 years ago and worked with the very first Beta of AutoCAD.  I've done a little dabbling with Solid Works, but it would take me a week to do what you are showing.

I thought you wanted to have the trombone at a diagonal.  That's why I suggested the two pegs/hooks.

Thanks a lot, Bruce! It does indeed blow my mind a bit to think that CAD has actually been around and used so long ago and it's cool to get back to one's roots in a way and take a look at the progression of software.

For anyone curious, my modelling (and to a certainly lesser extent, rendering) software of choice  is called Anim8or. It definitely shows its age, as the creator's been working on it since the late 90's and just in the past year or two released version 1.0. Anyone looking to dip their toe into a simple yet-useable 3d modelling and animation software with some charm of its own, I'd high recommend giving it a try!

On your second point, I DID actually think about that and I DO have some ideas in my head that would reduce a lot of the poor weight distribution issues caused by the slide, and have the horn on the wall at a cool angle as a cool display - but it unfortunately doesn't fit with the setup I'm trying to do in my workspace, as I've got a calendar and a poster I want to hang on the same wall and the trombone would be in the way! 


Quote from: Matt K on Jan 24, 2018, 08:50PMThe pilot hole I drilled was smaller than the screw so it's pretty stiff.  I've never had to readjust it but I also moved so I don't use it anymore. I used it for around 9 months but I also didn't play every horn every day. So YMMV!

Looks pretty good to me.  Now I will say that you'll notice on the two on the right that have the "Y" support that they have some weather stripping on both sides. That's because even with a super narrow piece of wood, I would always manage to hit the slide on the board.  In hindsight, I liked that design but if I had your design I'd drive myself crazy because I'm super clumsy!    If you have a straight horn, I'd probably stick to keeping the slide on the outside or on the left or right.  Not against the wall.  It's just too easy to hit the slide against the wood.    If you choose the left/right side it shouldn't even take up all that much extra space too, since t's largely flush with the bell. 

Depending on how handy you are, you could even suspend another small board from the wall and make it so that the slide rests on that. You'd get the best of both worlds in that you would get slide support without needing to constantly put the slide between the board.

BTW the cad looks awesome.

On second thought I may well be able to manage to do something similar to your upright wood block with the Y-hook support. The hands-down biggest reason I would want the slide on the side of the wall would be that this mount/hanger will be mounted directly over a dresser and I wouldn't want it intruding on the the space too much. If the issue is more about keeping the horn safe, though, and free from nicks/scratches/scuffs caused by bumping the slide on the wood block, then it does make a lot more sense to put the slide somewhere on the outside.

Then it's just a matter of figuring out what to do to get good support FOR the slide, as it's pretty heavy in comparison to the bell section and set the horn off-balance. My large bore is much better balanced up with the slide/bell section, but I'll only be using this for my small bore as I'm playing it constantly and the large bore really only gets pulled out when covering 3rd/bass bone parts. I'd just be nervous about the whole thing not being able to stay standing if the only support is the dowel/arm inside the bell, so I may follow your example with that, Matt.

I am also kicking around the idea of mounting the whole assembly onto a 1/2" wood plank so that it's all one un/installable unit, too. Although I don't know if that'd negate the effects of the shelf bracket. 

Quote from: davdud101 on Jan 25, 2018, 06:44AM
I am also kicking around the idea of mounting the whole assembly onto a 1/2" wood plank so that it's all one un/installable unit, too. Although I don't know if that'd negate the effects of the shelf bracket. 

If your bracket is screwed to a stud, it will be strong.  If just using a drywall anchor, not so much.

Go elegant, use a French cleat. 

It's not a wall hanger, but this is what I came up with when I decided I wanted to keep my horns out... funny that one horn is out on loan and the other is in the shop, so my one remaining horn looks lonely...

Was very simple to make: some mahogany trim I had lying around and three of the on-stage trombone stands that aren't stable on their own legs, but are when they are screwed to a larger base 

Quote from: tbathras on Jan 25, 2018, 07:58AMIt's not a wall hanger, but this is what I came up with when I decided I wanted to keep my horns out... funny that one horn is out on loan and the other is in the shop, so my one remaining horn looks lonely...

Was very simple to make: some mahogany trim I had lying around and three of the on-stage trombone stands that aren't stable on their own legs, but are when they are screwed to a larger base 



Very nice design tbathras, looks nice n sturdy!



Here's my final render of my version.


Switch to a black plastic plunger as that'd probably look nicer and be physically better-built for this kind of application.  I also a bit nervous about that slide support - maybe I can have a section jutting out the side that extends up to where it meets the lower slide brace/"handle".


But I think that's enough theorizing and conceptualizing - I have all the tools and materials I need to build it so I may as well get to work! Updates down the road

Quote from: tbathras on Jan 25, 2018, 07:58AMIt's not a wall hanger, but this is what I came up with when I decided I wanted to keep my horns out... funny that one horn is out on loan and the other is in the shop, so my one remaining horn looks lonely...

Was very simple to make: some mahogany trim I had lying around and three of the on-stage trombone stands that aren't stable on their own legs, but are when they are screwed to a larger base 



Very nice design tbathras, looks nice n sturdy!



Here's my final render of my version.


Switch to a black plastic plunger as that'd probably look nicer and be physically better-built for this kind of application.  I also a bit nervous about that slide support - maybe I can have a section jutting out the side that extends up to where it meets the lower slide brace/"handle".


But I think that's enough theorizing and conceptualizing - I have all the tools and materials I need to build it so I may as well get to work! Updates down the road