left shoulder discomfort

[PosauneCat]

Yo,

I am wondering if any of you have ever experienced left shoulder pain or other issues as a result of holding your horn. Most tenor trombones with F attachment weigh about 4.2 lbs which doesn't seem like that much weight, so I am wondering if it is more a matter of maintaining the holding position. I've returned to playing after a very long time away (about 25 years) so my issue could just be due to being older than I once was! I never had any discomfort as a younger player and I played a Conn 62H bass trombone (it was HEAVY!) Now I'm playing a few different horns but mostly a Yamaha 882UGII (that's the serial number for the Asian and European market - here is simply an 882G). I'm going to see a physical therapist today for some suggestions for exercises to enhance flexibility and strength, but I'm curious to see if this has ever been an issue for any of you.

Mike

[Doug Elliott]

It's a pretty common complaint. One time I injured my left shoulder, unrelated to playing, but holding my horn up became a big problem. I made a pad to go on top of a trombone stand, and rested my elbow on it - solved that problem.
The ErgoBone is made for that too, it completely supports the weight of the horn.

[pompatus]

Doing simple/minor strength exercises helps a LOT, I’ve found, even just 5-pound dumbbells. Any time I take a significant break I always have to rebuild that strength when coming back to the horn.

However, because of the shoulder and elbow issues I’ve had over the years, I've got a Butler bass on order and am eagerly awaiting its arrival.

The Ergobone that Doug mentioned is a great suggestion, btw.

[PosauneCat]

It's a pretty common complaint. One time I injured my left shoulder, unrelated to playing, but holding my horn up became a big problem. I made a pad to go on top of a trombone stand, and rested my elbow on it - solved that problem.
The ErgoBone is made for that too, it completely supports the weight of the horn.

I've read about the ErgoBone and watched the videos. It's pretty interesting. There are certainly other instruments that require straps or other aids to help to hold the instrument properly. I wonder if the ErgoBone will become as common in time? Have you ever used one, Doug? I think the only reason I've resisted it is that I don't want to look like an old man using the equivalent of a walker on his horn. I know, that's just my personal ego issue! I guess that makes me more a an EgoBone player...rim shot!

[Doug Elliott]

I bought one just because I like to have stuff... but I think I loaned it to somebody years ago and it didn't come back.

It seems like it does the job well but most people don't really like using it. I do know at least two local players here who use it all the time.

[LeTromboniste]

The ergo bone of course solves that completely, but any left hand device that helps ergonomics will help. The more relaxed your grip, and the more the weight of the horn rests naturally on the arm rather than needing to actually use muscle force, the least strain on the whole arm, shoulder and back. With bass sackbut, shoulder and back pain can be a real issue. Just the Yamaha or LCO leather sling that wraps around the left hand is a massive help, I can really tell the difference when I don't have it.

[JohnL]

I bought one just because I like to have stuff... but I think I loaned it to somebody years ago and it didn't come back.

It seems like it does the job well but most people don't really like using it. I do know at least two local players here who use it all the time.

Obviously the person you loaned it to liked it.

JL

[BGuttman]

Left arm pain can come from the weight of the horn or from the balance. The Ergobone attacks the weight issue very well. Only problem is it can be a little unwieldy at times. I knew one guy, an older former teacher, who used one because he had Parkinson's and it helped stabilize the horn since he really couldn't hold it very well.

If your problem is the balance of the horn, things like the NeoTech grip, or the many things that make an F-attachment hold like a thumb behind brace (i.e. like a straight tenor) can be of use: Ax Handle, Bullet Brace, etc.

[Bach5G]

I’ve been dealing with left shoulder issues for several months.

I noticed a loss of strength and range of motion over a period of a few months and made an appointment to see a physio.


On July 2, I had my 2nd shot of Pfizer. No problems.

I went to my physio appointment on July 6 and was given an exercise band (the lightest) and exercises to do. I did the exercises on July 7.

On July 8, my left shoulder became very inflamed and painful such that I had nearly zero strength or ROM. I could barely move my left arm. I could barely sleep due to the constant aching pain. This continued for three days until Sunday when I went to the ER and got some Tylenol #3 (at no cost, by the way, thanks to our excellent Canadian health care system). The ER physician also said the X-rays showed my 66-year old shoulder was in better shape than many she’d seen.

Monday I got in to see my regular physician (also no cost) who gave me a prescription for more T3s, which I have not needed.

Over the following two weeks my shoulder settled down to baseline and I’ve carefully resumed the exercises recommended by the physio.

The internet, that source of worst case scenario and catastrophizing, tells me about a condition called Shoulder Injury Related to Vaccine Administration or SIRVA. (I note the lawyers have already monetized this.) My doctor said he’d heard of it. Neither the ER physician nor my family physician thought my left shoulder pain was related to the injection.

Anyway, get a bit of physio, do the exercises, and build some strength. I have an Ergobone, which occasionally comes in handy, but for me, it’s a short-term solution.

[hyperbolica]

I'm approaching retirement age, and I've got a pinched nerve in my neck that affects both arms. I can lift heavy weights, but even light weights in the wrong position cause a lot of pain. The last real Easter gig I played on bass brought me to tears to hold up the instrument for once through an entire piece with no rests (~5-6 minutes). I tried physical therapy and massage - they both realized they were out of their league early on, and didn't waste my time or theirs. I got an MRI, and 2 disks in my neck are bulging to one side, impinging on a nerve that goes down one arm.

It has been a progressive thing. At first, I would just get tingling in my fingers when I walked. Then my entire arm started going numb. Then I couldn't hold positions for a long time, and eventually, It was just constant pain if I weren't reclining comfortably.

The only relief came with a steroid shot in my neck. Once that stops helping, next is surgery to whittle away the bulged disks.

I've tried a lot of things on the ergonomic spectrum: Getting a lighter bass bone, playing bass bone on euphonium/tuba, stop playing bass bone, ergobone... contemplating cimbasso instead of bass bone, custom building a bass trombonium in F ...

The ergobone can work, but...
- the mechanism attaching it to the trombone is CLUNKY
- the inventor refuses to hear criticism
- fortunately I'm a CAD wizard and design professional, so I have created my own attachment mechanism and 3D printed it
- even with the new connection mechanism I made, the only configuration that really works is the floor peg, which is extra cost on top of an already too-expensive gizmo, and the whole thing is wicked unweildy.
- switching it between instruments takes a minute or two, so you're really have to buy multiples to use it on more than one horn
- trombone is an asymmetric instrument, yet the ergobone pretends that it's symmetrical, so the "flag holder" thing and even the chair peg are flawed concepts.
- All the stuff that attaches to your horn won't fit in the case, so if you take it to rehearsals, it's a lot of work and potential damage to your horn.
- They are hard to find, and expensive, and in the end don't work that well.

[timothy42b]

I have impingement syndrome in the left shoulder. It is painful to play for long.

My doc has offered cortisone shots, but I've been trying to treat it conservatively. He gave me a set of shoulder exercises and I haven't missed a day since November. Progress has been steady but sooooo slow. Originally I couldn't lift the left hand to get it on the steering wheel, now I can open the car door. If I drop something just let it go, that quick grab can be excruciating.

Things that help: playing an alto (some pain but much better), playing the straight tenor with an added counterweight, playing with an improvised cantilever ergobone.

The 42B without the support leaves me grabbing for the ibuprofen and missing a night of sleep.

External rotation of the shoulder seems to be less painful. I have been playing with elbow resting on chest, and shoulder slightly rotated externally.

Next stop, the jhorn nuvo.

[PosauneCat]

Left arm pain can come from the weight of the horn or from the balance. The Ergobone attacks the weight issue very well. Only problem is it can be a little unwieldy at times. I knew one guy, an older former teacher, who used one because he had Parkinson's and it helped stabilize the horn since he really couldn't hold it very well.

If your problem is the balance of the horn, things like the NeoTech grip, or the many things that make an F-attachment hold like a thumb behind brace (i.e. like a straight tenor) can be of use: Ax Handle, Bullet Brace, etc.

I just ordered a Neo Tech brace. I’ll check out the other ones too. Thanks, Bruce!

[PosauneCat]

I’ve been dealing with left shoulder issues for several months.

I noticed a loss of strength and range of motion over a period of a few months and made an appointment to see a physio.


On July 2, I had my 2nd shot of Pfizer. No problems.

I went to my physio appointment on July 6 and was given an exercise band (the lightest) and exercises to do. I did the exercises on July 7.

On July 8, my left shoulder became very inflamed and painful such that I had nearly zero strength or ROM. I could barely move my left arm. I could barely sleep due to the constant aching pain. This continued for three days until Sunday when I went to the ER and got some Tylenol #3 (at no cost, by the way, thanks to our excellent Canadian health care system). The ER physician also said the X-rays showed my 66-year old shoulder was in better shape than many she’d seen.

Monday I got in to see my regular physician (also no cost) who gave me a prescription for more T3s, which I have not needed.

Over the following two weeks my shoulder settled down to baseline and I’ve carefully resumed the exercises recommended by the physio.

The internet, that source of worst case scenario and catastrophizing, tells me about a condition called Shoulder Injury Related to Vaccine Administration or SIRVA. (I note the lawyers have already monetized this.) My doctor said he’d heard of it. Neither the ER physician nor my family physician thought my left shoulder pain was related to the injection.

Anyway, get a bit of physio, do the exercises, and build some strength. I have an Ergobone, which occasionally comes in handy, but for me, it’s a short-term solution.

Wow, sorry you had to go through all that! I’m looking for to PT later today. My problem is more mild than what you had.

[PosauneCat]

It looks like I’m in good company! Thanks to all of you for your input! I’m in my early 60s and come from a family with impressive longevity, they all live into their late 90s and beyond!! So, I’m hoping to keep it together as long as possible. Aging is not for the faint of heart. I have a friend who is a killer pianist who is about 69 now. He says his new game is called “what hurts today?!”

[Kbiggs]

+2 for the ErgoBone. It works. I’ve used it at various times during my life. I wrote about it a few times here on TC and the old TF. It takes some getting used to, but it can certainly help while you address the problem that is causing the left shoulder discomfort (weakness? pain?).

In the meantime, NSAIDs (ibuprofen, Aleve, Motrin, etc.) can be helpful. Strengthening and physical therapy (as needed) are essential to address the underlying problem.

Not medical advice, but… if you continue to experience weakness, and especially if it gets worse, a visit with a doctor might be in order.

And you’re right: Aging is not for the faint of heart.

[PosauneCat]

I got back from PT and the simple stretches and exercises I was given made a difference right away! Obviously it’ll take time to completely take care if it, but the tests and X-rays showed no damage, just using too much tension. Isn’t it ironic that relaxing is really hard to do?

Oh, and the physical therapist used to play the trombone in college! That helped.

[PosauneCat]

+2 for the ErgoBone. It works. I’ve used it at various times during my life. I wrote about it a few times here on TC and the old TF. It takes some getting used to, but it can certainly help while you address the problem that is causing the left shoulder discomfort (weakness? pain?).

I’m intrigued by the comments about the ErgoBone. I’m going to try it. It sounds like it could be a hassle to use in performance but even just using it while practicing would be helpful. My biggest question is, would using it weaken the muscles used to normally hold the horn so that playing without it would be that much harder? Will one essentially be one “addicted” to it and have a tough time holding the horn without it?

[Burgerbob]

+2 for the ErgoBone. It works. I’ve used it at various times during my life. I wrote about it a few times here on TC and the old TF. It takes some getting used to, but it can certainly help while you address the problem that is causing the left shoulder discomfort (weakness? pain?).

I’m intrigued by the comments about the ErgoBone. I’m going to try it. It sounds like it could be a hassle to use in performance but even just using it while practicing would be helpful. My biggest question is, would using it weaken the muscles used to normally hold the horn so that playing without it would be that much harder? Will one essentially be one “addicted” to it and have a tough time holding the horn without it?

It's probably better to use the ergobone and heal in a healthy way, building up strength later, than keep using the shoulder and risking injury every day.

[BGuttman]

Think of the Ergobone as a kind of crutch. When you can't walk any other way, the crutch is the answer. But eventually you get well enough not to need the crutch (at least that's the aspiration).

[lupusargentus]

Mid 50s here. My chiropractor has been regularly popping my back between the shoulder blades with two resulting benefits; one it opens up my chest and really helps my breathing, the other is I don't have the shoulder pain/fatigue holding a horn, particularly my bass.

[robcat2075]

Is the pain immediate upon picking up the horn or does it appear and grow after you begin?

[Kbiggs]

It's probably better to use the ergobone and heal in a healthy way, building up strength later, than keep using the shoulder and risking injury every day.

This.

The ergobone can be used as a crutch, like Bruce says, basically an orthopedic device. Some people use it all the time. If you decide to buy one, use it as you need it. If other people look at you funny for using it, tell them they are listening with their eyes, not their ears.

[PosauneCat]

Think of the Ergobone as a kind of crutch. When you can't walk any other way, the crutch is the answer. But eventually you get well enough not to need the crutch (at least that's the aspiration).

That’s exactly how I see it.

[PosauneCat]

Is the pain immediate upon picking up the horn or does it appear and grow after you begin?

Neither, it doesn’t bother me while I’m playing. I just notice tightness and occasional pain doing other activities afterwards. The pain is minor and of very short duration. The physical therapist said I’m pushing my should forward causing muscle tension which of course causes minor bone (no pun intended) misalignment. He said it wasn’t bad and can be fixed with some stretches and exercises and, of course, not pushing my shoulder forward, and trying to both shoulda slight back and aligned.

[PosauneCat]

If other people look at you funny for using it, tell them they are listening with their eyes, not their ears.

Good advice!

[PosauneCat]

Mid 50s here. My chiropractor has been regularly popping my back between the shoulder blades with two resulting benefits; one it opens up my chest and really helps my breathing, the other is I don't have the shoulder pain/fatigue holding a horn, particularly my bass.

Right! My physical therapist recommended several exercises that focus on the shoulder blades. I’m also a pianist and years ago I was having some back and shoulder tightness and the same thing was suggested. I guess I either forgot that or just didn’t equate the two things.

Every instrument has the potential to cause physical problems. I guess we should all be glad we’re not violinists at least. I know a violinist in town who was a fine player, but due to bad posture and habits, combined with the inherent idiomatic physical demands of the instrument, had to stop playing. It was devastating.

[robcat2075]

I guess we should all be glad we’re not violinists at least. I know a violinist in town who was a fine player, but due to bad posture and habits, combined with the inherent idiomatic physical demands of the instrument, had to stop playing. It was devastating.

It's weird listening to string players complain about all their aches and pains and agonies.

In absolute terms, pressing a string down with finger should not be a big deal but somehow they've injured themselves doing it.

[BGuttman]

I guess we should all be glad we’re not violinists at least. I know a violinist in town who was a fine player, but due to bad posture and habits, combined with the inherent idiomatic physical demands of the instrument, had to stop playing. It was devastating.

It's weird listening to string players complain about all their aches and pains and agonies.

In absolute terms, pressing a string down with finger should not be a big deal but somehow they've injured themselves doing it.

I had to give up guitar (acoustic) because pressing down the strings created pain in the fingertips. Pressing down a string is not quite so simple.

[PosauneCat]

It's weird listening to string players complain about all their aches and pains and agonies.

In absolute terms, pressing a string down with finger should not be a big deal but somehow they've injured themselves doing it.

It’s actually more about neck and shoulder problems with violinists. The very idea of stabilizing an instrument with your neck makes MY neck hurt.

[PosauneCat]

I had to give up guitar (acoustic) because pressing down the strings created pain in the fingertips. Pressing down a string is not quite so simple.

True, dat!!

Cellists have it tough too. Wrist and finger joint problems galore!!

[robcat2075]

I took viola lessons in college for my second instrument requirement. Having tried that, I think violin and viola are impractical choices for adult starters. Too many joints that have to work at outer limits of their motion. But if they start at three they kind of grow into it.

Now I've been playing cello for 10 years. It is way easier than viola was! Easier to "hold" the instrument, easier to bow, easier to finger... and yet there are lots of broken-down cellists out there.

Some of it is the repetition-injury that could happen to anyone using their hands and arms in a task. However, much of it seems to be from acquired bad practices that weren't strictly necessary to play the instrument but maybe were shortcuts to getting something done.

I recall, my freshman year in college, the cello teacher, "Miss Durkee," was a very old woman who with a serious hunchback. How much of that was the cello and how much was inadequate calcium I don't know. Her students complained that she would hit their knuckles with her bow if they played something wrong.

Miss Durkee got eased out and replaced the next year with a lithe young thing that looked like a ballerina.

She had good posture then, I wonder what it's like today?

[baileyman]

It's possible a good masseuse or chiropractor could find the offending structure and calm it down. I say "possible" because there seems to be a wide range of competence among these folks. If one doesn't work, it doe not mean they all don't. In any event, if it does work it can be magic.

[PosauneCat]

I recall, my freshman year in college, the cello teacher, "Miss Durkee," was a very old woman who with a serious hunchback. How much of that was the cello and how much was inadequate calcium I don't know. Her students complained that she would hit their knuckles with her bow if they played something wrong.

Miss Durkee got eased out and replaced the next year with a lithe young thing that looked like a ballerina.

She had good posture then, I wonder what it's like today?

OUCH! Given my personality I would have hit her back!

Robcat, I'm also a pianist and learned good habits very early. But, I know a lot of pianists who are also almost hunchbacked from bending over the keyboard. Bottom line, music is a dangerous occupation if you do it wrong!

[PosauneCat]

It's possible a good masseuse or chiropractor could find the offending structure and calm it down. I say "possible" because there seems to be a wide range of competence among these folks. If one doesn't work, it doe not mean they all don't. In any event, if it does work it can be magic.

Yesterday I saw physical therapist. Today I saw my chiropractor. They both helped a lot and assuaged my fears that I was seriously hurting myself. They both said, with their help and my adherence it'll be fine.

[PosauneCat]

I bought one just because I like to have stuff...

We are kindred spirits there. I love buying STUFF!

[Bach5G]

I’ve wondered if Alexander Technique, or Pilates might be helpful as a preventative measure. I know I’ve hurt my shoulder doing yoga. Maybe swimming.

[PosauneCat]

I’ve wondered if Alexander Technique, or Pilates might be helpful as a preventative measure. I know I’ve hurt my shoulder doing yoga. Maybe swimming.

I was thinking more along the lines of Olympic sitting or major league napping. Seriously though, I think the Alexander technique appeals to me. I’ve read about it think it would be well worth a try.

[SimmonsTrombone]

I’ve found that lifting free weights per Mark Rippeto’s Starting Strength to help me more than anything. Entirely different than Smith machines, isolation exercise machines, etc. His program works the whole body.

[timothy42b]

Then there's that Russian guy, Pavel, who says all you need is a kettlebell.

[afugate]

[snip] Bottom line, music is a dangerous occupation if you do it wrong!

Any occupation with repetitive physical activity is potentially debilitating.

Way back in the last century I worked as a summer relief helper for the GM plant in OKC. My first job on the line was to cover for an absent worker who was out for surgery. The job was to install the door switches that activated the interior lights when the door opened. The process involved sitting on the car frame and using a drill motor to install the switch. Once for the front door, once for the back door... and then on to the next car.

On the first day, one of my line co-workers handed me a makeshift donut fashioned out of spare rubber pieces. They suggested I strap that to my backside to use as a cushion.

As it turns out, the person I was covering for was out for a worker's comp claim. The surgery was for work-induced hemorrhoids...

--Andy in OKC

[ArbanRubank]

I outfitted both my single-trigger bass and King 3B/F with a hand brace. There is no other way to hold a trombone, as far as I am concerned. It was a game-changer for me! I found it easier to relax my left shoulder and thereby play in a more relaxed way, which also manifested itself in a more relaxed and less jerky slide action. If I had an extra hand brace, I would even fit one on my Conn 6H, if I had a Conn 6H.

[PosauneCat]

I outfitted both my single-trigger bass and King 3B/F with a hand brace. There is no other way to hold a trombone, as far as I am concerned. It was a game-changer for me! I found it easier to relax my left shoulder and thereby play in a more relaxed way, which also manifested itself in a more relaxed and less jerky slide action. If I had an extra hand brace, I would even fit one on my Conn 6H, if I had a Conn 6H.

What kind of brace? Who makes it?

“ If I had an extra hand brace, I would even fit one on my Conn 6H, if I had a Conn 6H.”. This is a nice variation in the old vaudeville joke,”If we had ham, we could have ham and eggs, if we had eggs.”

[Bach5G]

I’ve found the Yamaha/Clebsch hand straps useful.

[ArbanRubank]

I outfitted both my single-trigger bass and King 3B/F with a hand brace. There is no other way to hold a trombone, as far as I am concerned. It was a game-changer for me! I found it easier to relax my left shoulder and thereby play in a more relaxed way, which also manifested itself in a more relaxed and less jerky slide action. If I had an extra hand brace, I would even fit one on my Conn 6H, if I had a Conn 6H.

What kind of brace? Who makes it?

“ If I had an extra hand brace, I would even fit one on my Conn 6H, if I had a Conn 6H.”. This is a nice variation in the old vaudeville joke,”If we had ham, we could have ham and eggs, if we had eggs.”

It's this one:

https://www.neotechstraps.com/trombone-grip.html

I tried the Yamaha leather grip for about 10 seconds and abandoned it. Worthless for my needs. I tried it on someone's recommendation and the only thing I could say was, "Now there's another fine mess you've gotten me into". The Neotech grip is solid gold, for my use. If I need to transport my horn anywhere, the grip part unsnaps and the bushing stays on the slide in the case. Easy enough for me. Can't speak for others.

Aww shucks. You found my comedy source on that one.

[PosauneCat]

I tried the Yamaha leather grip for about 10 seconds and abandoned it. Worthless for my needs. I tried it on someone's recommendation and the only thing I could say was, "Now there's another fine mess you've gotten me into". The Neotech grip is solid gold, for my use. If I need to transport my horn anywhere, the grip part unsnaps and the bushing stays on the slide in the case. Easy enough for me. Can't speak for others.

Aww shucks. You found my comedy source on that one.

Excellent!! I just ordered a NeoTech yesterday. I’m psyched.

Concerning your comedy line…I recently commented to another TC member that there seems to be a humor deficit on the forum. You made my day by showing me humor isn’t entirely in missing here! Hat’s off to you!

PS…nice tip of the hat to Oliver Hardy in your last reply!

[ArbanRubank]

Excellent!! I just ordered a NeoTech yesterday. I’m psyched.

Concerning your comedy line…I recently commented to another TC member that there seems to be a humor deficit on the forum. You made my day by showing me humor isn’t entirely in missing here! Hat’s off to you!

PS…nice tip of the hat to Oliver Hardy in your last reply!

What I generally do is to order up one of everything I see that might work. I test them and then throw away the stuff that doesn't work for me if the Salvation Army doesn't want it either. I can't really remember why the Yamaha strap didn't work for me and I am not intending to insult anyone for whom it does work. I think it was that I couldn't get the rock-solid stability I wanted with that strap and I found the Neotech brace much more to my liking. I hope it works for you, since you have it on order.

I have found a lack of humor on this site as well and I think it's b/c humor can be tricky. What I might find hilarious might be patently offensive to some one else. I think that has an overall dampening effect. But frankly, I don't give a damn. Lol.

[PosauneCat]

I have found a lack of humor on this site as well and I think it's b/c humor can be tricky. What I might find hilarious might be patently offensive to some one else. I think that has an overall dampening effect. But frankly, I don't give a damn. Lol.

Damn, you are just full of famous quotes today!

The NeoTech is scheduled to arrive later today. I’ll let you know what I think. Just for my knowledge, what other ones exist, other than the Yamaha?

Re: humor…it is tricky in text. That doesn’t stop me though because, frankly, I’m frickin’ hilarious (at least in my mind). I taught theory at NEC and was a theory TA at Eastman about a 1,000 years ago. Talk about lack of humor! Academia is the black hole of humor. Now as a composer and producer I can call the shots and people have to put up with it. I don’t push my luck online though.

[ArbanRubank]

It's funny how different things will work differently for different people. When I first started in on a trigger horn, it set my left elbow on fire. I got over it in about 18 months or so. Then when I picked up a single-trigger bass, it made my left shoulder ache. So, in my case I had to STOP lifting weights. I remembered my PT back to when I had a right shoulder impingement. They said, "range first, strength after". So I started doing very gentle range-of-motion exercises and my shoulder healed. Now - with the NeoTech Brace - I can play just about as long as I want. I wish there was a NeoTech Brace for my chops!

[PosauneCat]

I wish there was a NeoTech Brace for my chops!

Amen, Brotha! I wish I there was such a thing. I see a lot more “gimmickry” in the brass world these days than I did in the dark ages. Nothing beats time and work though. One thing that drives me crazy these days is watching guys on YouTube demonstrating their high register by squeaking out a few undefinable pitches that sound more like a food processor. I’ve heard very few people who have a full and beautiful stratospheric range that is not only musical, but maintains the sound quality of the trombone. Even some big name pros (e.g. Lindberg) sound more like a french horn than a trombone in the upper range. Peter Steiner’s YouTube video playing “Somewhere” is a good example of a beautiful, lyrical trombone sound in the high range. The high F# gets a bit thin but his Es are lovely!

There’s another guy I see all over YouTube perpetrating a scam by essential lip syncing his multitrack trombone videos. It’s deceptive and lame.

[PosauneCat]

I outfitted both my single-trigger bass and King 3B/F with a hand brace. There is no other way to hold a trombone, as far as I am concerned. It was a game-changer for me! I found it easier to relax my left shoulder and thereby play in a more relaxed way, which also manifested itself in a more relaxed and less jerky slide action. If I had an extra hand brace, I would even fit one on my Conn 6H, if I had a Conn 6H.

I got the NeoTech grip tonight. It feels a little awkward even after tweaking it to death, but I probably just need to get used to it. I also ordered a “Get-a-Grip” from Sheridan Brass. It looks far simpler and may offer more flexibility in hand positioning than the NeoTech. There’s another one I saw listed at a local music store called “Wise Grip”
It’s literally just a bolstering grip but looks like it could take care of one of my biggest gripes about large trombones…the narrow top slide brace which always bugs me after a few hours of playing (it’s a grip for my gripe).

ArbanRubank, thanks a lot for all the info on this thread. I’ll let ya know how the other grips work!

Mike