TromboneChat

Recording myself I have noticed so many deficencies in my legato, I think my Synchronization has to be better but over all my principal problem are the famous bumps that cause the dwah-dwah sound, even in staccato I've noticed that sometimes I get into a twah twah sound. I'm working legato with no tongue and using breathing attacks but is a very difficult habit to avoid and is very frustrating because sometimes I dont notice that I'm bumping but when I listen to my recording the dwahs/twahs appear. How would you work on this? Thanks.

I would want to watch you play to give you specific advice. A couple of things that come to mind are that you're "bumping" with the air on each note, rather than keeping a steady air stream. The "twa" sound that you describe also makes me suspect that you're moving your jaw on each attack too. Watch yourself in a mirror and see if when you attack the pitch your jaw moves down and up too. Try to keep your jaw still.

Dave

I'm confused with your strategy here. You need to use the tongue for legato, not breath attacks. The dwah dwah sound is usually caused by uneven air flow, and I agree with Dave that your jaw is also probably involved in the sound change "wah" sound -- in other words the air through the phrase should be more or less constant and even and the lightest use of the tongue helps separate the notes. Trying to do a breath attack on notes in a phrase basically guarantees that there will be crud in between each note.

There is also the "natural legato" technique that American teachers go nuts for, but that is a distinct sound and I think if that as distinct from true legato playing. I love the sound of natural legato, and sneak it in to phrases to add some flavor, but I think some American schools of thought rely far too heavily on it.

You need to be able to control both styles at will, and neither uses a breath attack.

Besides constant air, constant mouthpiece pressure makes a difference too, at least for me.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:42 am I'm confused with your strategy here. You need to use the tongue for legato, not breath attacks. The dwah dwah sound is usually caused by uneven air flow, and I agree with Dave that your jaw is also probably involved in the sound change "wah" sound -- in other words the air through the phrase should be more or less constant and even and the lightest use of the tongue helps separate the notes. Trying to do a breath attack on notes in a phrase basically guarantees that there will be crud in between each note.

I think I did not explain well, I only use breath attacks just to start the phrase. I practice with no togue (glissando) and then I repeat with legato tongue and normal attacks, the jumps usually appears when the slurls go up and the slide goes outwards.

Check your air. You may be pushing a "bump" of air as you slur. Also check to be sure you're not pulling your horn around on your face as you move the slide goes out.

Check the timing of the tongue, assuming the glissando works. There may be a difference between the legato strike of the tongue timed to be on the beat, or the liftoff of it to be on the beat.

All of the above.
As with what Dave Wilken said, it would help to actually see you doing it to know exactly what the most effective fix would be.

A lot of it is simply learning to hear it in your own playing as you do it.

Here's a long term way to practice:
Practice singing a phrase with totally smooth continuous sound and absolutely no articulation. Then reproduce that on the horn, still with no articulation, just a totally smooth airstream with continuous sound. Play everything like that for a few weeks, NEVER using any articulation. Then learn to tongue so lightly that you're not even articulating, just barely waving your tongue at the air. Gradually increase the contact so it starts to sound like legato.

I would be curious to hear an excerpt to get a sense of how severe your dwahs and twahs are.

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:46 am I would be curious to hear an excerpt to get a sense of how severe your dwahs and twahs are.

Having a good teacher hear you is most important.

I would also add—and I’m not saying this is your case—that another thing to consider is the shape of the front of the tongue. Sometimes a broad and flattened tongue, like the “d” of “dah” or the “t” of “tah,” can interfere with the smooth flow of air, leading to a “bump.” A narrower front to the tongue, like the “l” in “lah” or “n” in “nah,” can be helpful. There’s a little room around the sides of the tongue to allow for airflow, which can decrease the “bump.” It’s worth experimenting around with different syllables.

Another thing to watch for is “slide rebound.” When the slide goes to another position, do you stop the slide in place, or do you bounce around every-so-slightly during that millisecond when the tongue articulates the note?

Again, the most important thing is having a teacher to listen to you.

Synchronization of the slide and tongue is extremely important too. A lot of times one is happening ahead of the other, and you're unaware of it. But the stuff I wrote before should be done first. Get the tongue out of the equation for a while.

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:04 am

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:46 am I would be curious to hear an excerpt to get a sense of how severe your dwahs and twahs are.

Having a good teacher hear you is most important.

I'd still be curious to hear an excerpt. Is that really a problem?

It might be obvious, but if your slide is not working well, legato will be impossible.

Listen to Doug. He’s the mensch.