Getting back into tenor

[JCBone]

I recently started practicing on tenor again after a very long time away and the transition wasn't nearly as smooth as I would have expected. My tone just didn't sound right and my technique also suffered. Does anybody have any experience with this and tios on how to overcome it?

[Vegasbound]

Have a lesson or two, and be patient and practice

[harrisonreed]

Have the right equipment, and approach each one the same way so that the equipment is the limiting factor, not you. Paradoxically, this approach means that each horn will sound distinct and appropriate.

Tenor/Bass/Alto just aren't that different from one another, except in the mouthpiece. And it is oh so easy to go wrong in the tenor mouthpiece department. And a million times easier to go wrong in the alto mouthpiece department.

[hyperbolica]

I go through this reset from time to time. The air and chops are different. More focused air, and you don't have to blow as much. The difference in the amount of air can be surprising especially with smaller bore tenors. Your oral cavity also needs to shift to a higher/more forward tongue and jaw. Articulations for me have been something I've had to focus on. Don't allow tenor articulation to get too slow or heavy.

Don't try to use a bass mouthpiece on tenor. Long tones, scales, intervals, lip slurs, range. Use a tuner to make sure you aren't playing flat. Work through it slowly. Listen to your sound. It will come back. Be patient. Maybe have a lesson to make sure everything is going to plan.

[Burgerbob]

Have the right equipment, and approach each one the same way so that the equipment is the limiting factor, not you. Paradoxically, this approach means that each horn will sound distinct and appropriate.

Yuuup. I find that if I think I'm playing bass well, but tenor feels bad, I'm actually not playing bass that well. Bass just has the ability to cover up many deficiencies. The better I play overall, the better all the horns respond and sound.

[harrisonreed]

Have the right equipment, and approach each one the same way so that the equipment is the limiting factor, not you. Paradoxically, this approach means that each horn will sound distinct and appropriate.

Yuuup. I find that if I think I'm playing bass well, but tenor feels bad, I'm actually not playing bass that well. Bass just has the ability to cover up many deficiencies. The better I play overall, the better all the horns respond and sound.

I think most people are playing on tenor mouthpieces that are too narrow in cup width and too deep overall. Shallower cups that are wider, with a larger throat (than a 5G) for large bore tenor and a narrower throat (than a 6.5al) for small bore tenor are the money zone for me.

Blow into them and the right around comes out the other end of the trombone.

You never seem to meet bass players having bad mouthpiece issues like you do with people on tenor or alto though. It's like bass players know that a wide, deep mouthpiece works on bass, but no one knows that narrow deep mouthpieces don't really work on tenor.

[JCBone]

Yuuup. I find that if I think I'm playing bass well, but tenor feels bad, I'm actually not playing bass that well. Bass just has the ability to cover up many deficiencies. The better I play overall, the better all the horns respond and sound.

I think most people are playing on tenor mouthpieces that are too narrow in cup width and too deep overall. Shallower cups that are wider, with a larger throat (than a 5G) for large bore tenor and a narrower throat (than a 6.5al) for small bore tenor are the money zone for me.

Blow into them and the right around comes out the other end of the trombone.

You never seem to meet bass players having bad mouthpiece issues like you do with people on tenor or alto though. It's like bass players know that a wide, deep mouthpiece works on bass, but no one knows that narrow deep mouthpieces don't really work on tenor.

What mouthpiece do you use?

[Burgerbob]

You never seem to meet bass players having bad mouthpiece issues like you do with people on tenor or alto though. It's like bass players know that a wide, deep mouthpiece works on bass, but no one knows that narrow deep mouthpieces don't really work on tenor.

It is a strange dichotomy. I just got a Griego 1C and large tenor all of a sudden started to work for me.

[harrisonreed]

I think most people are playing on tenor mouthpieces that are too narrow in cup width and too deep overall. Shallower cups that are wider, with a larger throat (than a 5G) for large bore tenor and a narrower throat (than a 6.5al) for small bore tenor are the money zone for me.

Blow into them and the right around comes out the other end of the trombone.

You never seem to meet bass players having bad mouthpiece issues like you do with people on tenor or alto though. It's like bass players know that a wide, deep mouthpiece works on bass, but no one knows that narrow deep mouthpieces don't really work on tenor.

What mouthpiece do you use?

I use several mouthpieces on large tenor, but they all have a Doug Elliott XT106N rim, which is about the cup width of a 2G. I mostly play on a a piece that Bob Reeves made for me that has the XT106N rim, a medium depth cup, and very open backbore. The throat is like .295" or something. I'm eager to try my DE SYM model in a brass quintet, where my Reeves mouthpiece would probably be too aggressive, but haven't gotten a chance to yet.

For small tenor, it's the DE XT106N with a C+ cup and D3 shank. Doug is a genius, and where his ideas really shine are in small bore world. I wouldn't be able to play small bore trombones without this mouthpiece, let alone sound good on them.

For alto, again the same rim but with the A cup and A alto shank. It is an outstanding setup. This was the final nail in the coffin for me on trying mouthpieces with different width cups, and I realized that there really is only one rim size that is optimal for tenor/bass/alto/euph, and once you figure out what that size is for you you can zero in on the parts that really matter -- mostly the cup depth, and also the throat and backbore. Obviously, I would use a much larger rim width if I played tuba or something, but I don't. I think Jim Nova is a great example of this idea as well, with his new mouthpiece series.

For bass, the same rim again (remember, it is about a 2G size) with a J cup and J8 shank.

I have no issues whatsoever switching between horns, even picking up alto after not playing it for months.

[harrisonreed]

You never seem to meet bass players having bad mouthpiece issues like you do with people on tenor or alto though. It's like bass players know that a wide, deep mouthpiece works on bass, but no one knows that narrow deep mouthpieces don't really work on tenor.

It is a strange dichotomy. I just got a Griego 1C and large tenor all of a sudden started to work for me.

That is a great mouthpiece! I would get tired on it though because the rim is too fat for the way I play. I would have trouble getting through an aggressive concert if I was playing first, and it was just because the rim was locking my face into place and it was too much metal on my face.I love the sound I got on it though. Imagine that one but with a narrow DE 106 rim

[Burgerbob]

It is a strange dichotomy. I just got a Griego 1C and large tenor all of a sudden started to work for me.

That is a great mouthpiece! I would get tired on it though because the rim is too fat for the way I play. I would have trouble getting through an aggressive concert if I was playing first, and it was just because the rim was locking my face into place and it was too much metal on my face.I love the sound I got on it though. Imagine that one but with a narrow DE 106 rim

That's probably next.

[hyperbolica]

For small tenor, it's the DE XT106N with a C+ cup and D3 shank. Doug is a genius, and where his ideas really shine are in small bore world.

Doug's small bore pieces helped me switch between large and small bore, and even bass. I hesitate to criticize equipment that lots of people have been successful with for decades, but I'm better off with bigger diameter rims than your typical 5g that I grew up with.

[MStarke]

Funny how this turned into a mouthpiece philosophy discussion. Don't know if this helped the original question - while it certainly may be a valid and important topic...

I cannot/don't want to contribute too much to the original question as there are far more knowledgeable people here than myself.
Taking the mouthpiece question aside, I would recommend to aim for a very focused sound and embouchure on tenor as most bass trombonist may be on the rather dull and fluffy end which then makes things like flexibility and range difficult...