TromboneChat

I think we've had this discussion before but I couldn't find it.

I was at a local minor league baseball game this weekend. A highschool girl sang the National Anthem and did a very creditable job, a little bit country but very nice voice, stayed on pitch, didn't get too wild customizing it, I did enjoy it.

Except. On the "dawn's ear-ly light" she didn't take the accidental at "ly." I'm hearing it done that way more and more, and it sounds soooo wrong to my ears.

What's up with that? Are they learning by rote with some recording everybody shares?

I have a strong suspicion that the general public doesn’t hear the accidental unless there’s background music playing. Almost every singer I’ve heard lately, if they’re singing in that standard a-cappella-add-as-many-notes-to-every-phrase-as-I-can, misses most of the accidentals.

New world we’re living in without backup bands.

I hear a lot of budding jazz players doing the same thing with standards, playing wrong notes they don't know are wrong. I think they're learning it from each other instead of from good recordings.

brtnats wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:39 am ... Almost every singer I’ve heard lately, if they’re singing in that standard a-cappella-add-as-many-notes-to-every-phrase-as-I-can, misses most of the accidentals.
...

It's kindof a new baroque ornamentation era we're in, isn't it?

Meanwhile, it would be fun if a singer would lead with something like the third verse rather than the first:

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

There is a great reading of all the verses
On poetry recordings
Much protest of course

Do you mean she went straight from mi on "early" to do on light with no re? I'm confused

It's a tricky note.

If you don't use the alternate fingering, you'll miss it.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:18 am Do you mean she went straight from mi on "early" to do on light with no re? I'm confused

..

Yes. In Robert's key of C example, she sang F natural instead of F sharp. But that's not the first time I've heard it done that way, it seems to be common.

If you set the tune to a simple I V IV guitar strum, or that's your music tradition, the "wrong" way is probably the best way to go.

Giants@Dodgers last night had an extremely laconic country rendition that was true to itself.

I always appreciated the band directors who zipped through it.

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:25 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:18 am Do you mean she went straight from mi on "early" to do on light with no re? I'm confused

..

LEE.jpg

Duh! I was thinking of the last few notes. Thank you.

I'd have to hear it. I'm not sure I've heard this mistake, but probably have.

I heard one person sing it unaccompanied and it was like some Luciano Berio piece with microtonality.

Microtonality seems to be a characteristic of a lot of untrained voices ...

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:22 pm Microtonality seems to be a characteristic of a lot of untrained voices ...

Ironically, the first thing to come to mind when i think of microtonality is jacob collier. If only the singers in question were at that level

I have plenty of melodies from various sources with bad notes and bad chords in them. It happens and gets passed on.

I have heard famous singers either gloss over or change notes in songs or arrangers change the chords to make an awkward part sound nicer.

I suspect composers may have purposefully written music to challenge vocalists artistically. Hah! Let's hear you croon THIS one nice, Frank. And he does.

But one would not expect our national anthem to get corrupted.

The US National Anthem is actually an old English drinking song, "To Anacreon in Heav'n" and a poem written by Francis Scott Key.

It's a very challenging tune because of its great range. Move it up to get the low notes and the high note is hard to sing. Move it down to reach the high note and the low notes are too low.

I've seen a bunch of reorchestrations to get the range to match a singer.

brtnats wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:39 am I have a strong suspicion that the general public doesn’t hear the accidental unless there’s background music playing.

I suspect the general public can't tell a half-step from a quarter-pounder even with background music.

This is probably all picky classical musician stuff to them.

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:39 pmI suspect the general public can't tell a half-step from a quarter-pounder even with background music.

Some of them may hear that something is "off", but most of them probably figure that the singer is right and the background is wrong.

and don't even get me started on people who change it to 4/4.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:09 pm The US National Anthem is actually an old English drinking song, "To Anacreon in Heav'n" and a poem written by Francis Scott Key.

Yes, and I'm aware that Anacreon does not have the accidental.

But Star Spangled Banner does, and I've heard it played correctly a few times over the past six decades; it's only fairly recently that hear that flat note in.

It's not a microtonal or an out of tune note. It's pretty clearly what they think it should be.

baileyman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:01 am

brtnats wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:39 am ... Almost every singer I’ve heard lately, if they’re singing in that standard a-cappella-add-as-many-notes-to-every-phrase-as-I-can, misses most of the accidentals.
...

It's kindof a new baroque ornamentation era we're in, isn't it?

The practice of melisma has become miasma...

--Andy in OKC

JohnL wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:43 am

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:39 pmI suspect the general public can't tell a half-step from a quarter-pounder even with background music.

Some of them may hear that something is "off", but most of them probably figure that the singer is right and the background is wrong.

and don't even get me started on people who change it to 4/4.

Change it to 4/4? Is that even possible?

although wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:50 am Change it to 4/4? Is that even possible?

Only using a series of powerful magnets.

It's done all the time. For example, from 2:47 onwards here. It's worth starting at the start, though - the Ravelian Simpsons clouds parting at 0:43 provides an early indication that this is going to be A Lot, and if you can manage the whole thing you're more-or-less guaranteed to have apple pie shooting from both ends.

It works in 4/4 with a 3-2 clave.

Just thought I would insert the attached .PDF

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:49 pm It works in 4/4 with a 3-2 clave.

There's gotta be a 7/8 Hank Levy treatment somewhere in the UNT stacks

ithinknot wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:30 pm

although wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:50 am Change it to 4/4? Is that even possible?

... and if you can manage the whole thing [Sandy Patty version] you're more-or-less guaranteed to have apple pie shooting from both ends.

Couldn't manage "the whole thing" - too much for me. Why not also have elaborate versions in 6/8, 5/4, etc.?

Note that the (long-ignored) 1942 Code for the National Anthem includes the cautionary statement:
"It is inappropriate to make or use sophisticated 'concert' versions of the National Anthem."

Note that artistic types take the statement "It is inappropriate to make or use sophisticated 'concert' versions of the National Anthem." as a personal challenge.

although wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:50 am

JohnL wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:43 am
Some of them may hear that something is "off", but most of them probably figure that the singer is right and the background is wrong.

and don't even get me started on people who change it to 4/4.

Change it to 4/4? Is that even possible?

Whitney Houston, Super Bowl XXV in 1991. As I recall, Beyonce did it in 4/4 for Barrack Obama's second inauguration (2013).

Jimi Hendrix's performance of it is the definitive version.

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:23 pm Jimi Hendrix's performance of it is the definitive version.

Probably had more military brass squirming than any other

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:11 pm Note that artistic types take the statement "It is inappropriate to make or use sophisticated 'concert' versions of the National Anthem." as a personal challenge.

I've done this.

In the Whitney Houston's version, you can see the military honor guard saluting harder because it was so good. Yeah it was canned, but everything has been canned since the 1970s.

Despite the artistic liberties, that is the most patriotic and outstanding version of all time. It topped the charts for singles in 1991 and made #6 in 2001.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:01 pm In the Whitney Houston's version, you can see the military honor guard saluting harder because it was so good. Yeah it was canned, but everything has been canned since the 1970s.

Despite the artistic liberties, that is the most patriotic and outstanding version of all time. It topped the charts for singles in 1991 and made #6 in 2001.

I would contend that people's impressions of Ms. Houston's rendition were strongly influenced by what was going on at the time (the early days of the Persian Gulf War) and by the memory of the Roseanne Barr fiasco less than six months earlier (July 25, 1990). I never thought of the rendition itself as being particularly patriotic; to me, it was more of a showcase for the performer's vocal talents (thus the decision to add a beat to each bar so she could hold the notes out longer). As you pointed out, those listening had a very strong patriotic reaction, but I suspect that the reaction would have been much the same to a more traditional interpretation

Posaunus wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:41 pm

ithinknot wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:30 pm
... and if you can manage the whole thing [Sandy Patty version] you're more-or-less guaranteed to have apple pie shooting from both ends.

Couldn't manage "the whole thing" - too much for me. Why not also have elaborate versions in 6/8, 5/4, etc.?

Note that the (long-ignored) 1942 Code for the National Anthem includes the cautionary statement:
"It is inappropriate to make or use sophisticated 'concert' versions of the National Anthem."

Well, I made it about halfway before the glurge overwhelmed me... I'll stick with the straight up band version, preferably played at a not too dirgey pace

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:38 pm

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:23 pm Jimi Hendrix's performance of it is the definitive version.

Probably had more military brass squirming than any other

Yeah, I don't know why it was controversial. The song is about a battle, so he made sounds on his guitar that you would hear in a battle. Not sure what the problem is with that. He said in an interview he didn't intend it as any sort of political commentary.

brassmedic wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:31 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:38 pm

Probably had more military brass squirming than any other

Yeah, I don't know why it was controversial. The song is about a battle, so he made sounds on his guitar that you would hear in a battle. Not sure what the problem is with that. He said in an interview he didn't intend it as any sort of political commentary.

I just think they got their panties in a wad over the fact that he did these modifications to the official U.S. National Anthem, and there are rules against it. I listened to the Hendrix SSB. I wouldn't stand to salute it, but it was certainly interesting.

Are there any actual reactions from generals regarding Jimi Hendrix's SSB?

I'm doubtful many generals were paying attention to Jimi Hendrix.

I can only find the briefest of mentions of the performance at all in the contemporary media.

Hendrix obit...