TromboneChat

Hi-

just picked up a lightly used Bach Centennial 42BOF. Liking the way it plays a lot, but linkage is REALLY loud compared to other minibal style linkages I have played. The usual hetman ball joint lube does not seem to do much. Any tricks to getting this linkage to shut up (short of replacing it)?

Chinese minibal?

Just took the linkage off the horn, cleaned it really well and tried a few different oils on it (hetman 14 and 15). I also rotated the miniballs slightly on the connecting rod and that helped, too. I think one of the miniball ends might have been clicking against the rotor stop arm.

It is still noisier than my greenhoe valves or shires rotor with similar linkage, but much better.

Generally, I am a fan of hetman products but anyone have something else for this applicaiton they love I should try?

My setup may be totally different, but I have an ancient 42B from the 70s.

The lube doesn't seem to matter. What makes a difference is precise adjustment of the linkage, and it's iterative. You keep getting closer. Too tight and it jams, too loose and it clanks, but there's a sweet spot.

timothy42b wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 6:51 am My setup may be totally different, but I have an ancient 42B from the 70s.

The lube doesn't seem to matter. What makes a difference is precise adjustment of the linkage, and it's iterative. You keep getting closer. Too tight and it jams, too loose and it clanks, but there's a sweet spot.

The linkage world has moved on a bit from that style.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 7:17 am

timothy42b wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 6:51 am My setup may be totally different, but I have an ancient 42B from the 70s.

The lube doesn't seem to matter. What makes a difference is precise adjustment of the linkage, and it's iterative. You keep getting closer. Too tight and it jams, too loose and it clanks, but there's a sweet spot.

The linkage world has moved on a bit from that style.

Some of us still have them ...

For OP: Have you considered a grease? Something like White Lithium Lube may quiet it down a bit. I actually use that in my old style Bach linkage.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 7:50 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 7:17 am

The linkage world has moved on a bit from that style.

Some of us still have them ...

For OP: Have you considered a grease? Something like White Lithium Lube may quiet it down a bit. I actually use that in my old style Bach linkage.

I do too. Doesn't mean the world hasn't moved on!

Has anyone retrofitted their stock Heim joints/spherical rod ends with a more-silent version/material, like maybe nylon? What did you use, where did you get them? Seems to me the right combination of materials could reduce or eliminate the need for lubrication and remain silent.

Yes. I think it's called "string."

timothy42b wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 11:00 am Yes. I think it's called "string."

Sure, I stepped in that! But...I think swapping linkage Heim joint ends would be a bit easier and more straight forward for a hobby-level repair person. Don't misunderstand me, I liked the string linkage just fine on my YSL-646, but I am searching for the easiest solution.

At the risk of starting a linkage vs string thread (which I wouldn't mind seeing) most high-end horns use linkage, right? -Joe

Edwards has a special oil for linkages that fits what you’re looking for pretty well. It comes in a thin white bottle with a pocket-protector style cap and the needle applicator like Hetman. I use it on my miniball linkage when things get a little clackity, usually does the trick. If that doesn’t work, I usually retighten the large center screw on the back of the valve and things tend to quiet down after that. I’m not really sure what kind of oil it is, I haven’t seen anything similar from other companies.

Put o-rings on it

Grease and oils are all great ideas BUT if the new Bach Meinlschmidt Linkage is indeed a mini ball clone the grease won't help much, it will get all over everything, and it will slow the thing down. Thick grease is necessary for those old Bach disasters but not for these. Real Mini Ball linkages should have mini ball stamped into them, right? I have a set of knock-offs on one of my Holtons-one is quiet, one is loose. I plan on having them both replaced once the parts come in. As for string I love my Elkhart 88H linkage. Will never replace that.

For the OP, this earlier thread might offer a possible solution for you:

https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=10658

My guess is that somebody disassembled the linkage in the past and lost the nylon bushing that reduces slop and noise. There should be one that goes underneath the head of the screw pinning the ball joint to the stop arm.

EDIT: OK I am looking at a picture of the linkage and I see the problem. Bach uses much smaller screws than other manufacturers and seems to not include the nylon bushing. A nice mod for these horns would be to replace that tiny screw with a button-head machine screw with identical threads and put a bushing on to prevent the linkage arm from rotating and hitting metal-to-metal.