TromboneChat

I have a '68 Elkhart 88H where the original bell had to be replaced. The replacement is a modern standard weight 88H with soldered rim; it says Conn engraved on inside of bell 88H stamped on side no other clue to new bell's age.

Sound is surprisingly good though different than original. Sound appears more on front side of bell than the original. But the resistance of the horn is now too high. It feels like a small mouthpiece even with a Schilke 51.

Worst of all, I've also been noticing sudden sharp stabbing pains on my chops at times which is a bit scary. I've been looking into used large bore horns lately for this reason.

But I wonder if I can save the horn.

I think there must be changes Conn has made to the modern horn to make the heavy bell work. Something else on the horn has been opened up. Any ideas?

I could try to get another bell similar to the Elkhart, but I'd rather not sink much money into the horn at this point. I don't have a removable lead pipe system either; in order to change it might have to destroy it.

thanks, Rick

My '68 bells have been heavier than ealier era ones. The biggest difference between modern Conn bells vs. Elkhart bells is that the modern bells have a soldered bell rim, which, in my humble opinion, shouldn't have that big of effect on the blow of the horn. I can see the response being different. I'd try a mpc change, but since it's a '68 I'm assuming you have a Remington tapered leadpipe.

The original bell by the time I got it was/is thin maybe from previous work. The modern bell now installed is super heavy/thick by comparison to any bell. I haven't seen a bell this thick since I had a Kind liberty 2B, or my former Edwards bass. Both of those horns had dual bore and the bass had a silver leadpipe to accommodate the heavier bells.

I have a 68/69 and the bell is thin as you say. I also bought an 8h new in ~2005, but I got the 8ht, where t is thin. Glorious instrument. If you have to replace the bell, do it with a "t" version of the bell. I thought it was at least as good as the original.

The old Conn is best original. Try to get the original bell, or make the custom shops make a close to the original bell. Can be expensive? Look ebay all the time.
Leif

Savio wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:52 am The old Conn is best original. Try to get the original bell, or make the custom shops make a close to the original bell. Can be expensive? Look ebay all the time.
Leif

Look for a Shires 2RVE or 2RVET7

GabrielRice wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:47 am Look for a Shires 2RVE or 2RVET7

That would be awesome, but pricey. I've seen them about 1K. If can't get it for less, than I would buy a used shires for ~3K - 4K, which is what I want, but can't afford right now.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:49 am I have a 68/69 and the bell is thin as you say. I also bought an 8h new in ~2005, but I got the 8ht, where t is thin. Glorious instrument. If you have to replace the bell, do it with a "t" version of the bell. I thought it was at least as good as the original.

I got a 88H without the T on there now, possibly same age as yours but thick. It cost less than a custom mouthpiece.

Savio wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:52 am The old Conn is best original. Try to get the original bell, or make the custom shops make a close to the original bell. Can be expensive? Look ebay all the time.
Leif

Look on ebay. I managed to get a late '60s Elkhart 88H bell for $150 in good shape and a 72H bell and crook from the same seller for another $75. There are deals to be had and gems to be found.

And the 8/88HT (or LT) bell is another avenue to check. You might be able to pick up a complete one for the cost (or less) of a Shires bell. My 8HT bell feels lighter than my '68 and the 88H bell i mentioned earlier and almost as light as my '57 bell.

On the subject of bell weight vs. mpc, i did an experiment with a '70s 88H against a later Eastlake 88H that had a slightly lighter bell. Differences in mpc weight (Griego 5 nouveau vs. Griego CS 5) affected response and sound output. The CS 5 overall had the best sound but sounded better with a lighter guage bell than the heavier one. All of my horns except my small bores and the Symington bassbone mpc all have Griego mpcs that go with them, based solely on how they play/sound with the horns paired. And i had a '68 slide to go with my '68 8H bell and it sounded terrible together. The dual bore 2547 slide i paired with the bell is an excellent fit. Not sure why but it works.

I don't envy the problem you face since I've been there, but I'm sure a simple, inexpensive solution is there waiting to be found.

Well I found a Conn gen II with S pipe (R pipe didn't like) works great and solves all my complaints, with no soldering required.

Yes, it's not light like it used to be, but the thing centers well and feels great.

Going to pull the classic pipe from the classic slide, put in a S and see if that works. Can't be any worse.

Thrawn22 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:37 pm My '68 bells have been heavier than ealier era ones. The biggest difference between modern Conn bells vs. Elkhart bells is that the modern bells have a soldered bell rim, which, in my humble opinion, shouldn't have that big of effect on the blow of the horn. I can see the response being different. I'd try a mpc change, but since it's a '68 I'm assuming you have a Remington tapered leadpipe.

Returning to this point... I agree that the honest difference out in the hall between soldered and unsoldered isn't that different in many ways. For me, however, it dramatically changes how I play the horn. The feedback to the player is different and I just cannot orient myself to an unsoldered rim. I can't hear myself when playing with others and I find myself doing weird things to compensate. Not because I have to, just because I'm trying to get the feedback to line up to what I expect. I spent several years trying to get used to an unsoldered bell that sounded best to me and everybody else alone in a hall... never could figure it out if I was playing with anybody else. Recordings generally sounded fine, but I was never comfortable.

So, I suppose in the OP's case, it may be your perception of the feedback from the horn that needs some re-calibration with the change. Whether or not you want to do that.. I can't answer that part, but for me it is frustrating.

Cheers,
Andy