TromboneChat

The sun is shining. The skies are clear.

The Marine Band is killing it.

So nice to say the BAND is killin’ it, after all the nonsense.

They had some snow squalls.

Still, nice to see somebody saying WE rather than I.

I hope our neighbors in the world will take us more seriously going forward.

Lady Gaga did a great job on the SSB

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:20 am Lady Gaga did a great job on the SSB

Was kind of an odd arrangement, although she sang it well.

Yes, very nice. Glad that Gaga didn't riff too far off the original song, same with Garth. Something is driving me nuts, though. The march segment they played slower than normal during the moving of the colors. It is the second or third stanza of something I know, but FOR THE LIFE OF ME I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE MARCH! Somebody tell me so I can retain what is left of my sanity...

I'm not watching it, but if it's a march that they're playing slow, it might be National Emblem, with a big trombone soli in the trio.

I like the SSB. It’s strikes me as a remarkable gesture of humility and a strong counter to the notion of American Exceptionalism to remind everyone of when the English (which included Upper and Lower Canada at the time) defeated the American forces at Bladensburg and burned a number of buildings in Washington including the Presidential Mansion/White House and the Capitol.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:05 am I'm not watching it, but if it's a march that they're playing slow, it might be National Emblem, with a big trombone soli in the trio.

Thanks! Yep, that was it. It was a slower and quieter arrangement than I am used to.

Jaylo's performance didn't twerk. But I liked it.

Garth Brooks sang Amaze Zing Grace a little pitchy? But I liked it. I wouldn't have wanted to be the trumpet player who led it off - stone cold, literally. But I liked it.

So now Biden's heading to the Oval Office. I hope they sanitized out the remnants of the Spreader in Chief.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:34 pm So now Biden's heading to the Oval Office. I hope they sanitized out the remnants of the Spreader in Chief.

A very deep clean I hope. Probably will have to get a pro restorer in to get the ketchup and grease stains off of the Resolute Desk.

I wonder how Edwin Eugene Bagley would feel knowing that "National Emblem" always gets played at national events... but only part of it!

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:34 pm So now Biden's heading to the Oval Office. I hope they sanitized out the remnants of the Spreader in Chief.

WaPo had a collection of farewell cartoons.

This is one of the less damning ones...

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:50 pm I wonder how Edwin Eugene Bagley would feel knowing that "National Emblem" always gets played at national events... but only part of it!

I'd bet he would consider it an honor, as a lifelong New Hampshirite.

Kingfan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:53 am Thanks! Yep, that was it. It was a slower and quieter arrangement than I am used to.

Not sure how many thousands of times I played that march when I was in the Navy. Slower at the trio to make sure the Marines could keep up. Quieter? Never heard it that way, especially at the trombone trio. Somebody in the trombone section always splatted that Eb. Second only to Columbia The Gem Of The Ocean.

OK, the complete "National Emblem" did get played during the escort back to the White House.

Phew!

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:13 pm

Kingfan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:53 am Thanks! Yep, that was it. It was a slower and quieter arrangement than I am used to.

Not sure how many thousands of times I played that march when I was in the Navy. Slower at the trio to make sure the Marines could keep up. Quieter? Never heard it that way, especially at the trombone trio. Somebody in the trombone section always splatted that Eb. Second only to Columbia The Gem Of The Ocean.

A dig at the Marines? Watch your back! Lots of places posted a video of the whole ceremony, so finding the part I'm talking about is possible with patience. Take a listen - I'm curious to get your opinion.

Friends over the pond there, congratulations with your nice and tasteful inauguration. Sun shines, Lady Gaga sings, the marines play, .... And we hope that the word we includes us in Europe and all places in the world too.

My best wishes for a good presidential period from DK

marccromme wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:52 pm Friends over the pond there, congratulations with your nice and tasteful inauguration. Sun shines, Lady Gaga sings, the marines play, .... And we hope that the word we includes us in Europe and all places in the world too.

My best wishes for a good presidential period from DK

Thanks for your good wishes. Biden has already issued proclamations rejoining WHO and the Paris Climate accords.

I hope we can negotiate back into the Iran Nuclear deal to keep them from building nuclear weapons. A nation with rogue tendencies with nukes is a danger to us all.

Kingfan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:43 pm A dig at the Marines? Watch your back! Lots of places posted a video of the whole ceremony, so finding the part I'm talking about is possible with patience. Take a listen - I'm curious to get your opinion.

Not really a dig, just a little good humored professional ribbing. In ceremonies, marines do march a little slower for a more stately appearance.

I could only find them playing National Emblem from 2016, and it was right on. Maybe just a touch slower than we used to do it. It's actually a little harder to play it slower, especially when you've been playing Washington Post, Stars and Stripes, Semper Fi, El Capitan, Liberty Bell, et al....

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:47 am

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:20 am Lady Gaga did a great job on the SSB

Was kind of an odd arrangement, although she sang it well.

I'm at work, so did not watch. Was it at least in 3/4?

It was in 4, with one 3/4 bar in the middle, and I stopped noticing toward the end so I'm not sure. But it was very respectful while being different. I liked it.

Although there are regulations about not deviating too much, even some of the military bands have done a little reharmonizing and mostly, I see nothing wrong with keeping it interesting.

JohnL wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:24 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:47 am Was kind of an odd arrangement, although she sang it well.

I'm at work, so did not watch. Was it at least in 3/4?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/la ... i-BB1cWb5K

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:13 pm

Kingfan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:53 am Thanks! Yep, that was it. It was a slower and quieter arrangement than I am used to.

Not sure how many thousands of times I played that march when I was in the Navy. Slower at the trio to make sure the Marines could keep up. Quieter? Never heard it that way, especially at the trombone trio. Somebody in the trombone section always splatted that Eb. Second only to Columbia The Gem Of The Ocean.

I always wondered why the military plays this march in its entirety. I've done it, but not nearly as many times as I've just played the trio as the colors move. The full march quotes the SSB, and there are only specific times that you play the anthem in a ceremony. People in uniform have been known to stand at attention and salute in the middle of this march, even though they would have already done so during the SSB when the colors are in place.

As for military units deviating from the SSB version required by regulation, I know that the Pershing's version does. It changes rhythms, chord voicings, and other more minor things. Most army bands go nuts for that version, because the chords are voiced in a way that makes it easier to play in tune. I'm a sucker for the traditional DoD version. The trouble chord on it is "the land of the FREE", which can sound atrocious. One trick to saving it is to have the 2nd trombone revoiced to tuning Bb in that chord (the Bb is pretty much missing), and to play the Bb loudly. That alone seems to save the chord.

Don't forget all the players who can't hit the high G in bar 4 of the first strain in tune....

A 1.5% popular vote advantage does not constitute a landslide, but it did make a decisive Electoral College victory. We are a politically divided country, and the administration policies one half of the populace celebrate are the same policies that the other half loathes and voted to prevent. Our new president's rhetoric aside, the concept of unification rings hollow, and, as with any administration, there will be unexpected and unwanted consequences to his leadership, politically, economically, and socially.

Is there really an official arrangement of the SSB?

The laws adopting it just say "the words and music known as The Star Spangled Banner"

The Library of congress says:

The new law, however, did not specify an official text or musical arrangement, but left room for creative arrangements and interpretations of "The Star Spangled Banner." The standard instrumental version was unofficially established as the arrangement used by the U.S. service bands. However, other versions include...

Clearly someone in the military decided to make the standard version standard. I wonder how far up they have to go to use a different version.

Doubler wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:50 pm A 1.5% popular vote advantage does not constitute a landslide, but it did make a decisive Electoral College victory. We are a politically divided country, and the administration policies one half of the populace celebrate are the same policies that the other half loathes and voted to prevent. Our new president's rhetoric aside, the concept of unification rings hollow, and, as with any administration, there will be unexpected and unwanted consequences to his leadership, politically, economically, and socially.

And your point is?

Will anyone be surprised that there will be political disagreement, about policies and practices, in the future, as we have always had (and properly so)? I savor informed debate, which can often change my preconceptions.

I'm just hoping that honesty will finally prevail, so we will be discussing factual information rather than the self-serving fictions that we have been fed. No, we will not be "unified" in the sense of thinking alike, but we can join in seeking some sort of common good, a modicum of consensus, and respect for the "other side."

It doesn't carry anything like the force of law, but here's something that was put together in the early days of WWII by the Music Educators National Conference (M.E.N.C.). It's interesting to note what they thought was important and how modern practice differs from what they thought should be the standard. I've attached a PDF of the original document, which includes the "Service Version" mentioned in the text.
[quote]
The Code for the National Anthem of the United States of America

ADOPTED BY THE NATIONAL ANTHEM COMMITTEE, APRIL 2, 1942

The Star-Spangled Banner will be presented only in situations, programs, and ceremonies where its message can be effectively projected.

Since the message of the music is greatly heightened by the text, it is of paramount importance that emphasis be placed upon the singing of the National Anthem.

The leader will address himself to those assembled, as an invitation for their participation. If announcement of the National Anthem is necessary, it will be stated as follows: "We shall now sing our National Anthem," or "So-and-so will lead you in singing our National Anthem."

On all occasions, in singing the National Anthem, the audience will stand facing the flag or the leader in an attitude of respectful attention. Outdoors, the men will remove hats.

Musicians playing the National Anthem in an orchestra, or band will stand when convenient to do so.

Our National Anthem is customarily sung at the opening of any program, but special circumstances may warrant, the placing of it elsewhere.

If only a single stanza of the National Anthem is sung, the first will be used.

In publishing the National Anthem, the melody and harmony and syllable divisions of the Service Version of 1918 will be used. In publishing for vocal groups, the voice-parts of the Service Version will remain unchanged. (The Service Version in A-flat is reproduced on this page.)

It is inappropriate to make or use sophisticated "concert" versions of the National Anthem.

For usual mass singing of adults and for band or instrumental performances, the key of A-flat will be used. For treble voices the key of B-flat may be used.

If an instrumental introduction is used, the last two measures are most appropriate. When the National Anthem is sung unaccompanied, care should be taken to establish the correct pitch.

The National Anthem should be sung at a moderate rate of speed. (The metronome indications in the Service Version are crotchet 104 for the verse and crotchet 96 for the chorus.)

The slighting of note values in the playing or singing of the National Anthem will seriously impair the beauty and effectiveness of both the music and the lyric. Conductors should painstakingly rehearse both instrumental and vocal groups in the meticulous observance of correct note values.

The statements herein relate to every mode of civilian performance of our National Anthem and apply to the publication of the music for such modes of performance.

The Service Version of the National Anthem, reproduced below, was prepared in 1918 by a joint committee of twelve (see 1919 Yearbook of the M.E.N.C., p. 145, and MUSIC SUPERVISORS JOURNAL of November 1918, pp. 2-3), comprising John Alden Carpenter, Frederick S. Converse, Wallace Goodrich, and Walter R. Spalding, representing the War Department Commission on Training Camp Activities; Hollis E. Dann, Peter W. Dykema (chairman), and Osbourne McConathy, representing the Music Educators National Conference; Clarence C. Birchard, Carl Engel, William Arms Fisher, Arthur E. Johnstone, and E. W. Newton, representing the music publishers.

The Service Version as reproduced below is the same as that prepared by the original joint committee, with the exception of the transposition to the key of A-flat, in order to make it more singable by audiences, and a few minor changes in punctuation and wording, in order to make it more authentic.

The code here printed was adopted by the 1942 National Anthem Committee at the Milwaukee Conference with the assistance of its two representatives from the War Department, Major Howard C. Bronson, Music Officer in the Special Services Branch, and Major Harold W. Kent, Education Liaison Officer in the Radio Branch of the Bureau of Public Relations. Messrs. Dykema and McConathy represent the original committee on the 1942 Committee, which includes representatives of all principal music organizations.

It's so hard to hear or play SSB in any other key than Bb. We obviously had to memorize all 3 bone parts and the melody, and over time and repetition you learn other parts as well. But we only ever played in Bb.

Numberz shur are funny things!

For four years we've been told that coming in 2nd with 46.1% of the vote was "a massive landslide victory".

But now, coming in 1st with a clear majority of 51.3%... not a landslide!

Huh.

-

Posaunus wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:05 pm

Doubler wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:50 pm A 1.5% popular vote advantage does not constitute a landslide, but it did make a decisive Electoral College victory. We are a politically divided country, and the administration policies one half of the populace celebrate are the same policies that the other half loathes and voted to prevent. Our new president's rhetoric aside, the concept of unification rings hollow, and, as with any administration, there will be unexpected and unwanted consequences to his leadership, politically, economically, and socially.

And your point is?

Will anyone be surprised that there will be political disagreement, about policies and practices, in the future, as we have always had (and properly so)? I savor informed debate, which can often change my preconceptions.

I'm just hoping that honesty will finally prevail, so we will be discussing factual information rather than the self-serving fictions that we have been fed. No, we will not be "unified" in the sense of thinking alike, but we can join in seeking some sort of common good, a modicum of consensus, and respect for the "other side."

"And your point is? " "One man's meat is another man's poison."

I used to enjoy informed debate, also. I still would, but I find it extremely difficult to find someone who disagrees with me to have such a discussion. Thanks to the "Cancel Culture", debate is being increasingly stifled, and discourse is no longer the result of disagreement. In a disagreement, people on the Right say "I want to convince you.", while those on the Left say "I want to kill you." Remember Voltaire's "I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it."? I don't see this attitude prevalent today. Instead, we have people excluded from public discourse, viciously assaulted by mobs, and even murdered in the name of self-righteousness.

As for honesty, people on both sides of our political divide elaborate, exaggerate, and fabricate "facts" to bolster their respective arguments. I have to correct some of the information I receive from enthusiastic friends, reminding them that such arguments, however valid, lose credibility when these arguments deviate from the truth. Sometimes the truth is difficult to ascertain, and meeting in the middle or compromising does not help the search for truth, either, because it can't always be found in the middle, and by definition is uncompromising. BTW/FWIW: Here's a tool that I use to help me understand the perspective of media sources, for those who are interested: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:42 pm Numberz shur are funny things!

For four years we've been told that coming in 2nd with 46.1% of the vote was "a massive landslide victory".

But now, coming in 1st with a clear majority of 51.3%... not a landslide!

Huh.

-

I agree. To a thinking person, neither is a landslide.

Reminds me of a National Lampoon headline after Nixon’s win in 1972: Landslide Hits White House.

Doubler wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:48 pm
"And your point is? " "One man's meat is another man's poison."

I used to enjoy informed debate, also. I still would, but I find it extremely difficult to find someone who disagrees with me to have such a discussion.

Here's a tool that I use to help me understand the perspective of media sources, for those who are interested: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/

I've got to agree that it's much harder to have an intelligent, productive debate (or even discussion) than it used to be, due to irreversibly hardened opinions, closed minds, and inability to see others' viewpoints. But I'm an optimist, so hope that somehow this can / will change.

I'm grateful for the referral to MediaBiasFactCheck. Thankfully all my science sources show up to be very fact-based and unbiased. My multiple news media sources are apparently mostly near the middle ("least biased"), though some are "left-center." Fortunately (as a sort of skeptic), I think I can still usually sniff out the bias. Sadly, I have little remaining respect for many politicians, especially those tied closely as "all-or-nothing" loyalists to their national parties (or party leaders).

As a part of an immigrant / multiracial / multi-ethnic family, I have little patience or respect for intolerance related to those issues. Our family is full of self-starter success stories. I'm proud to be part of this. And, ultimately, I'm proud to be an American.

The intent of TromboneChat has always been to NOT have political discussions like this. So this is not intended to "shut it down" or "censor free speech" or anything like that, except to say that the TOU that you all agreed to when you signed up here says "we are limiting the subject material strictly to topics that do not involve politics"

So let's stop this right here before a moderator decides to take further action.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:02 pm The intent of TromboneChat has always been to NOT have political discussions like this. So this is not intended to "shut it down" or "censor free speech" or anything like that, except to say that the TOU that you all agreed to when you signed up here says "we are limiting the subject material strictly to topics that do not involve politics"

So let's stop this right here before a moderator decides to take further action.

Agree! Thank you Doug.

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:03 pm Is there really an official arrangement of the SSB?

The laws adopting it just say "the words and music known as The Star Spangled Banner"

The Library of congress says:

The new law, however, did not specify an official text or musical arrangement, but left room for creative arrangements and interpretations of "The Star Spangled Banner." The standard instrumental version was unofficially established as the arrangement used by the U.S. service bands. However, other versions include...

Clearly someone in the military decided to make the standard version standard. I wonder how far up they have to go to use a different version.

The military has it's own internal regulations that dictate what version of the SSB is to be played. I don't know if Pershing's own got special permission to play their version, but it isn't the version in the reg.

It would be very ... Un-American to restrict how people can play and interpret the anthem outside of official government functions. Crazy versions of the anthem that are well performed can really stir you.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:26 am

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:03 pm Is there really an official arrangement of the SSB?

The laws adopting it just say "the words and music known as The Star Spangled Banner"

The Library of congress says:



Clearly someone in the military decided to make the standard version standard. I wonder how far up they have to go to use a different version.

The military has it's own internal regulations that dictate what version of the SSB is to be played. I don't know if Pershing's own got special permission to play their version, but it isn't the version in the reg.

It would be very ... Un-American to restrict how people can play and interpret the anthem outside of official government functions. Crazy versions of the anthem that are well performed can really stir you.

Jimi Hendrix, anyone?

But since this thread is about the actual inauguration, I thought everything about Lady's performance was perfect. I guess you could say I went gaga over it.

We loved Lady GaGa’s SSB. And in the spirit of the guidelines, it was very much about the words and you could see how emotional she felt.

A musical question. Was it truly a new, written out arrangement or was the band simply following her phrasing (after rehearsing with her)?

I would expect it's Lady Gaga's arrangement. She probably has an arranger she works with.

I find that arrangements in other time signatures than 3/4 feel a bit jarring to me. Then again, we used to play a version of SSB that was used by the 3rd NH Volunteers Post Band in the Civil War that was VERY different from the arrangements generally adopted as the National Anthem.

Definitely written through all of it. All of the DC bands have their own arrangers, who are fantastic at what they do, and there's no doubt in my mind that it was the band's own arrangement of how she wanted to do it.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:02 pm The intent of TromboneChat has always been to NOT have political discussions like this. So this is not intended to "shut it down" or "censor free speech" or anything like that, except to say that the TOU that you all agreed to when you signed up here says "we are limiting the subject material strictly to topics that do not involve politics"

So let's stop this right here before a moderator decides to take further action.

Keep in mind that the first political comment in this thread was by a moderator.

Doubler wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:27 pm ...

Keep in mind that the first political comment in this thread was by a moderator.

OK. Which of my comments do you consider political?

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:19 pm Definitely written through all of it. All of the DC bands have their own arrangers, who are fantastic at what they do, and there's no doubt in my mind that it was the band's own arrangement of how she wanted to do it.

Thanks, Doug.

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:27 pm OK. Which of my comments do you consider political?

"So now Biden's heading to the Oval Office. I hope they sanitized out the remnants of the Spreader in Chief." It opened the door to further political comments, which followed.

"So now Biden's heading to the Oval Office. I hope they sanitized out the remnants of the Spreader in Chief."

I'm no epidemiologist, but that sounds more medical to me than political. Good to hear the return of truth and science-based commentary these days...

https://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson ... nce-is.php

Science is provable theory. When different studies come to different conclusions about the same subject, these conflicting theories must be resolved, and consensus doesn't necessarily equal truth, and neither do off-the-cuff political comments.

Doubler wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:18 pm Science is provable theory. When different studies come to different conclusions about the same subject, these conflicting theories must be resolved, and consensus doesn't necessarily equal truth, and neither do off-the-cuff political comments.

How many super spreader events have been traced to White House functions and Trump rallies? More than a few, I think.

Factually accurate does not necessarily mean non-political (especially in current US context), and I don't see a clear distinction between comments like the above and user posts that moderators have recently deemed off limits