TromboneChat

I have heard that many french hornists remove tuning slides they don't need in order to increase resonance. Does this paractice transfer to other brass instruments? Does it even really make a difference?

I've never heard of this for horn players. I guess if you know exactly what pieces you're going to play and know you won't need a valve combination, you could get away with it...


An old teacher of mine would take the F attachment tuning slide out of his Getzen 3047 when he played commercial styles on it. I'm not sure I heard a difference from that so much as how he changed his playing style, but he certainly enjoyed it that way.

I have a straight neckpipe on my large bore horn that I use when I'm not needing the F attachment. Ironically, I use an F attachment on my commercial horn though. I mostly do it because of weight. Lighter = easier to hold.

Matt K wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:39 pm I have a straight neckpipe on my large bore horn that I use when I'm not needing the F attachment. Ironically, I use an F attachment on my commercial horn though. I mostly do it because of weight. Lighter = easier to hold.

I don't have a modular instrument so it's just a matter of removing the tuning slide which weighs nothing.

I think the original post refers to an assembly process of tuning slides on things like attachments or valves (on other brass instruments) so that you no longer have an inner and outer tuning slide. Erik Van Lier has been an advocate of this for many years. If you look at his bass trombone on this website you will notice that both valves are cut and soldered to a predetermined length.....he cannot adjust them. Thus, he avoids having double layers of tubing for parts of his instrument.

http://www.trombone-usa.com/vanlier_erik.htm

I have heard of horn players doing this on just their valve tuning slides. They really cannot do it to their main tuning slide because it gives them no pitch adjustment for different performance situations.

In theory, it should give you an instrument that is lighter and responds quicker. I have never been brave enough to try it on any of my instruments. I think it takes a leap of faith!?!

You heard this?

I would be curious to know who the many are. If it is common there's probably a YouTube where they demonstrate it.

I recall reading Philip (world-famous Chicago Symphony principal and Indiana U horn teacher) Farkas' giant book on horn playing long ago [edit: see update below] but I don't recall him giving that advice. Maybe?

It's possible someone does that and thinks it gets him something but the modern horn is such a big chunk of metal with so many braces... is it really significant?

I suppose if someone had a piece that only used one side of their Bb/F double horn they could take three slides out of the unused side.

I'm going to guess this is something that has never passed a double blind test.

Again, I think there is much confusion in the semantics. Yes, a player could easily remove the (movable parts) tuning slide and play on an instrument with no tuning slides on their valves. This would give a horn player much less control of chromatic passages (they could still use their hand to alter pitch). But I do not believe that is what was implied by the person who told this to the original-post person.

I believe it was implied that a person chose an exact length for each valve tuning slide and had just the single layer of tubing for the entire length of the tuning slide. This would make all of the valve tuning slides non-adjustable because each tubing would be soldered at a fixed length. If a horn playing did this for both the F and B-flat side of their 1st, 2nd and 3rd valve slides, it would significantly reduce the weight of the instrument. Thus, it would make it respond much faster because of the weight reduction.

Several years ago, Erik Van Lier wrote about this in the ITA Journal. He had a horn-playing friend who did this with his instrument and it was the inspiration that led Erik to do it on his own bass trombone valve section. I don't think there are many musicians who have done this.....I believe it is limited to very few musicians.

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:00 pm Again, I think there is much confusion in the semantics. Yes, a player could easily remove the (movable parts) tuning slide and play on an instrument with no tuning slides on their valves. This would give a horn player much less control of chromatic passages (they could still use their hand to alter pitch).

I think this is right. I've heard of this practice somewhere as well. You definitely want to be sure of your length, as well as adding water keys or you're in for some trouble!

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:00 pm Again, I think there is much confusion in the semantics...

If the OP could provide an actual example of a Horn player discussing whatever it is they are discussing we would know.

Better than trying to guess.

I too have heard OF this with hornists, mainly 1 & 3 with extended high parts.
Removing mass supposedly tends to allow the horn to resonate more easily.

Never heard it in person though, so maybe more of a mental idea??

Thinking about applying this concept to trombones, I have my doubts...

Want to test this? Mate the slide from a Tune in Bell trombone with the bell from a Tune in Slide trombone.

I was thinking more about the main tuning slide...

Stop the presses!
Stop the presses!

Farkas does recommend pulling the slides off.

p. 83 of The Art of French Horn Playing...

This brings us full circle.

We now have them telling us that adding mass (a screw bell) improves the horn and removing mass (the slides) improves the horn.

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:46 am Stop the presses!
Stop the presses!

Farkas does recommend pulling the slides off.

p. 83 of The Art of French Horn Playing...

farkas.jpg


This brings us full circle.

We now have them telling us that adding mass (a screw bell) improves the horn and removing mass (the slides) improves the horn.

How about removing the horn??

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:21 am Want to test this? Mate the slide from a Tune in Bell trombone with the bell from a Tune in Slide trombone.

I have a horn like that. I have two slide to my Kanstul 1662, one with tuning slide and oone without but 1,5 cm longer. So it is a trombone with no tuning slide when using the one with no tuning. It is impossible to say it is better beacuse of that, Both slides are good, one is lighter and give a better balncce to the horn.
Yes I played with french horn players who did pull some tuning slide out sometimes. Not very unique. If you don´t talk to horn players (and trumpet players and sax players) you don´t know what they are up to.