TromboneChat

Does anyone have any info on this?

Looks like it could be a Bb valve for alto.

It is an "F" valve for an early Boosey and Hawkes "Sovereign" Tenor trombone; the Round Stamp model.

The idea was sound but the execution was flawed. There were too many tight bends in the whole thing so it was rather stuffy and the ergonomics of the trigger took some getting used to.

It is rumoured that the Round Stamp Sovereign was based on the Conn 8H so it might be that it would fit an 8H.

Cheers

Stewbones

Thanks for the info!

There’s a nice New York 50 for sale on Noah Gladstone’s BrassArk that has a set-up like this. I heard the fellow play who owned this horn. He sounded gorgeous, and I’m sure that any accomplished bass trombonist would also sound great.

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:18 pm There’s a nice New York 50 for sale on Noah Gladstone’s BrassArk that has a set-up like this. I heard the fellow play who owned this horn. He sounded gorgeous, and I’m sure that any accomplished bass trombonist would also sound great.

For reference-

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I had a besson sovereign roundstamp with an attachment just like that, which could be swapped for a regular tuning slide.

Those Boosey valves did fit Conn 8H's. There was another student at Juilliard who used one of those in his 8H.

Jim Scott

German trombones were and are often built like that, although with the valve usually lower down the leg and a simple leather thong pull with the spring directly on the valve. It's a very elegant way to have a convertible system!

I’d actually be interested in this concept. I have a great Elkhart 8H bell section that I don’t want to modify in any way. A good drop in f attachment would be intriguing.

ChadA wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:22 am I’d actually be interested in this concept. I have a great Elkhart 8H bell section that I don’t want to modify in any way. A good drop in f attachment would be intriguing.

I recommend that you try it first or prepare to be disappointed! You asked for a "good" drop in F attachment.

Cheers

Stewbones

ChadA wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:22 am I’d actually be interested in this concept. I have a great Elkhart 8H bell section that I don’t want to modify in any way. A good drop in f attachment would be intriguing.

If memory serves, the Besson/Boosey versions of this set-up were a bit stuffy. This was long before Thayers and Hagmans, etc. so most valves tended to play with more resistance. A good tech might be able to figure out a better wrap, etc. to help with that. Also, it's a very long throw for the valve. Again, as I remember, the action on the Boosey valve wasn't that bad considering that, but I think the wrap was set up partially so that the long rod from the thumb to the valve could be braced to avoid it getting bent from normal usage, banging around in a case, etc.

I have a plug-in valve for a 72H - it is in the F attachment tuning slide. That long linkage is something that you want to be very careful with, because it can be easily damaged. The same would be true for a main tuning slide valve. It is an interesting concept for a way to add a valve to a horn with minimal "surgery".

Jim Scott

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:18 pm There’s a nice New York 50 for sale on Noah Gladstone’s BrassArk that has a set-up like this. I heard the fellow play who owned this horn. He sounded gorgeous, and I’m sure that any accomplished bass trombonist would also sound great.

I've played this instrument. The sound would be a little light for most of the situations I play in, but the response is marvelous, and that 2nd valve works great.

A well made tuning slide or birds nest valve can be a beast. To a certain extent I feel there might even be some advantages to them.

I'm general my 1966 TR185 blows better in the single and double trigger registers than my fixed double plug basses... The pedal register with the valves definitely suffers though on the birds nest.

That seems like it would really mess with the mojo of the crook

cthompsonjr wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:48 pm Does anyone have any info on this?

I have that horn. It’s my go to. Plays well.

Putting the valve in the main tuning is a great idea in terms of making it a "fast conversion" horn. It also eliminates some of the alignment and construction tension that occurs with many convertible horns that have connectors on the two braces. Most of the tuning slide small sides of .547 bore horns have tubing in the .592-.595 range, so putting a bass trombone rotor (same bore range) at that spot would work. A small modification, as Harrisonreed pointed out, would be necessary to taper down the tuning slide on the exit side of the valve.

Darn! This thread has me thinking about making one of these sometime!

There have been F-attachments in tuning slides in the past. Some of the older German horns had them. Big problem is the actuation of the valve. The German style horns had valves with an integral clock spring and a long chain attached to a leather thong. Works OK, but takes some getting used to.

Just curious, in regards to the original post about an F attachment in a tuning slide....

Does any company in more recent years make anything like this? Looks like that B&H one the OP posted could have been from like 1930-1950?

I came up with wanting something like this, and this post was literally the only post/picture/details I could find on the web. Very cool, thanks for sharing the pics!

Yamaha YSL-603
https://thebrass-exchange.com/content/y ... e-trombone

cthompsonjr wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:48 pm Does anyone have any info on this?

It's from a Boosey & Hawkes ( or maybe Besson) round stamp Sovereign 547. I had one, easy to swap to a plain tuning slide (also supplied). Probably mid 1970s. It played surprisingly well on the "straight" part. The valve mechanism wasn't great.