Upsream versus downstream air

[JLivi]

I've seen a few things on this forum mentioning this idea of different air streams (upstream and downstream). I'm trying to dive in a little more and would love for some of you to expand on that idea.

Can you only be one type of player? Once you know the type of air you move, I'm assuming that makes moving around the horn a lot easier.

What's the difference between the two, as far as deficiencies in your playing. Or I guess is a stereotypical up or down stream player known for falling into certain traps or having a tough time with a specific thing?

I hope that all makes sense.

[BGuttman]

Doug Elliott and Dave Wilken would be most knowledgeable about this.

Generally as you play higher you aim your air stream more toward the rim of the mouthpiece and as you play lower you go more towards straight through.

Based on your embouchure structure the air stream going toward the rim may go up or down. Most people do one or the other. Neither is inherently better, but each works best for different people. The ideal position of the mouthpiece is also a function of upstream or downstream. Doug or Dave can explain much better than I can.

[baileyman]

Most of the time I see this it is someone playing fairly high, but the upstream has shown up for me pretty low. Below pedal A my chops clearly want to to pout the lower lip, and I suppose that means the air is then upstream. Now when I work low flexies I consciously pout the lip. Hopefully the consciously part will go away soon. And while buzzing in the transition area I practice rolling from downstream to upstream with continuous buzz. Not always successful, but sometimes.

Recently a Kenton vid from the 40s showed up, Southern Scandal, with Zito taking a solo, clearly an upstream player mid to high. Reminded me of Kai Winding.

Meanwhile, I look to freebuzz to guide me on the piece. While the freebuzz set may not be the same as the set on the piece, every day something interesting shows up to help me with chop position on the piece.

I think now it has been pretty easy to form preconceptions about what is the correct way to do it, and then find out that those were definite dead ends. For me an easy free buzz on a pitch seems to be a pretty good indication that's the right direction.

[Doug Elliott]

There are three distinctly different brass playing embouchures - two are downstream and one is upstream (sometimes considered two upstream types, but it's easier to look at it as one). Very successful players are usually solidly one type all the time (or most of the time). Players with problems are usually switching between two types.

So... It's not really about upstream vs downstream, it's about which of the 3 embouchure types is correct for your face.

My lessons are all about finding your correct type and reinforcing all the correct things about it, and eliminating the incorrect things. That makes everything very efficient.