TromboneChat

Hi all,

So as of late i have begun to get pain in my right shoulder. It feels worse after playing trombone. I've been toying around with the idea of getting my slide lightened, and since I'm developing this pain, i think i reached the tipping point.

A reason i think this may help ease the pain is from how my arm and shoulder feel after playing my 24H i recently bought of the chat classifieds. It has a really well done LW slide and it's quite possibly the best slide i have every used. All of my other slides seem to weigh a ton by comparison, making me feel spent and leading me to the conclusion that LW may be the way to go.


Thoughts?

Thanks

If you REALLY want to go light, check out the Butler carbon fiber slides!!!

Feels like frozen smoke!!


Eric

Most of the weight you hold up on the right is your arm. The slide weight is low in comparison. A light slide may help some and certainly won't hurt, but it might not be enough and it might not last for long. It also depends on what is wrong with your arm, how old you are and your weight, and maybe even your slide technique. I've seen people who twist their arm as they extend, and I can see how that motion could cause problems.

I have problems with my left shoulder. Light horns help. Ergobone helps. But the most help came from a steroid shot into my spine. Eventually I might need surgery, but for the last 8 months I've been good.

Have you seen a physical therapist? Stretching and strengthening are good places to start. Working with resistance bands might be helpful.

About a year ago, I was having serious issues with pain in both shoulders. My physical therapist friend asked me, "Did your shoulders hurt a couple of years ago when you were practicing yoga every day and working out with those 15 pound dumbbells?" Umm...no. "Then why did you stop lifting and doing yoga last year?" Umm...not really sure...

So last fall I started back into my yoga practice and started doing shoulder shrugs and rolls with my dumbbells. One month later, I was pain free. Still pain free. FWIW, I'm 56.

Just sharing what worked for me. As always, YMMV.

biggiesmalls wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:18 pm Have you seen a physical therapist?

About a year ago, I was having serious issues with pain in both shoulders. A physical therapist friend asked me, "Did your shoulders hurt a couple of years ago when you were practicing yoga every day and working out with those 15 pound dumbbells?" Umm...no. "Then why did you stop lifting and doing yoga last year?" Umm...not really sure...

So last fall I started back into my yoga practice and started doing shoulder shrugs and rolls with my dumbbells. One month later, I was pain free. Still pain free. FWIW, I'm 56.

Just sharing what worked for me. As always, YMMV.

I just turned 40 in July and was let go from my job leaving me with no insurance (its been a banner year for me). I have wanted to go to a gym to work up my strength having been on disability for almosr a year but covid shot that down too. Maybe some stretching routines will help loosen it up.

Thanks.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:35 pm Most of the weight you hold up on the right is your arm. The slide weight is low in comparison. A light slide may help some and certainly won't hurt, but it might not be enough and it might not last for long. It also depends on what is wrong with your arm, how old you are and your weight, and maybe even your slide technique. I've seen people who twist their arm as they extend, and I can see how that motion could cause problems.

I have problems with my left shoulder. Light horns help. Ergobone helps. But the most help came from a steroid shot into my spine. Eventually I might need surgery, but for the last 8 months I've been good.

Oddly enough my left shouder doesn't hurt from playing trombone and i have some heavy bell sections for most of my horns.

My ex had shoulder surgery and doesn't reccomend it as it made her shoulder hurt more in the long run.

As for slide technique, I haven't changed my technique since my early 20s and have been fine until now. I jave been in the past few years playing my large bore almost exclusively and those slides are on the heavy side. I have also been playing every day since the plague broke out.

Maybe I'm just pussing out

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:31 pm If you REALLY want to go light, check out the Butler carbon fiber slides!!!

Feels like frozen smoke!!


Eric

I have always been opposed to LW slides, so even toying with the idea is a big step for me. My 24H slide us pretty darn light compared to my 6H and bigger slides so i don't want to go to a featherweight slide. I'm curious to see how heavy the 5H slides are and go from there.

The other reason I'm toying with lightening my slide is i have a 6H slide that needs to be rebuilt anyway so i figured why not make it lighter.

Thanks!

I echo the Physical Therapy recommendations of others, when circumstances allow. I’ve been a few times for bicep and shoulder pain in both arms, including recovering from shoulder surgery in my left shoulder a couple years ago (full recovery, no residual pain at all) and I’m constantly amazed at their diagnostic and treatment abilities. They just suss stuff out very quickly, and their solutions straight up work.

I might also suggest looking into some at-home workout options. I’ve been a subscriber to Daily Burn for several years now, in lieu of a regular gym, and it’s incredibly affordable and excellent value. There’s a lot of good bodyweight-only workouts and exercises, as well as a lot of good programs designed for mobility and flexibility, and yoga, and it’s all very doable from home with little to no outlay except the occasional pair of dumbbells, if you’re into it. It may be a good alternative to both gyms and to physical therapy during these times.

I modified my original post to suggest working with resistance bands for your shoulder pain, it's a cheap and effective approach that a lot of PT's recommend:

Thrawn22 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:37 pm

The other reason I'm toying with lightening my slide is i have a 6H slide that needs to be rebuilt anyway so i figured why not make it lighter.

FWIW, back in 2012 I had two '50's 6H slides lying around, each with one crashed outer and inner. So I had a well-known tech who specializes in slide mods build a lightweight 6H slide with the oversleeves shortened down to about an inch. I played that setup for about a year on my '59 bell, until one day out of curiosity I got out the original slide and compared it side-by-side with the custom. I sold the custom slide the next week and have never regretted it. Something about the weight and build of the original 6H slide just worked better. The weight of those oversleeves dampens the feedback to the chops in just the right way. I found that with the lighter custom slide, my endurance suffered a bit compared with the original because there was a lot more vibrational feedback without the oversleeves.

I also have a '63 24H LW and love it just the way it is, it's a great little horn.

biggiesmalls wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:14 pm

Thrawn22 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:37 pm

Something about the weight and build of the original 6H slide just worked better. The weight of those oversleeves dampens the feedback to the chops in just the right way. I

I know right?!?! That's why i have been so hesitant on lightening my primary 6H slide. My impression of 6Hs 8s that they're built perfectly and need no modifications (though i have a custom leadpipe in my 6H slides).

I'm glad to hear I'm not alone in my thoughts on 6Hs.

I went thru the left shoulder and left arm pain thing last year. This year I changed by left hand grip a bit to be more natural (on both bass and tenor) and moved my left elbow in towards my side. Not enough to cramp my breathing, but enough to focus the weight of holding the horn down thru my forearm to my elbow - no flying elbow out from my side. I also took 1 month off during COVID season and only played euphonium and tuba - keeps the chops up and weight totally off the arm. The result is complete recovery from arm and shoulder pain!! I now make sure I keep my left elbow in, and there are zero issues! Today, on my 69th birthday, I played duets for 2 hours with a trumpet player, and had ZERO pain. Tonight I'll be on a dixieland gig and expect no issues! You CAN beat the pain if you are patient!!

My massage gal explained there is a network of nerves from the neck down to the elbow that wind all over the place and even intersect along the way, differently for almost every person. There are many opportunities for them to get caught among the muscles and bones. And a pain in one place may not reveal that the problem is a few inches away.

I just offer that if this is the situation, sensitive hands can set it amazingly right.

My own make-do is when something shows up, I put the spot on a latex lacrosse ball against a wall and roll it. Usually that works. Sometimes I have to chase down other spots before it clears. Recently it took three days of repeats.

Working out and stretching are the easiest, healthiest, and cheapest ways to solve this issue.

Generally as humans we spend too much time in a hunched over position (think looking at your phone or sitting at a desk looking at a computer) which leads to rounded shoulders and terrible postures and weak upper backs. Even people that lift weights tend to do far more pushing (think bench press) than pulling (think rowing or pull-ups), and it should be the other way around to maintain a balanced posture.

As others have mentioned, exercise bands are very cheap and versatile for home use. Focus on band pull aparts, face pulls, and light rows. These exactly counteract the bad habits most of us have and should help you bulletproof your upper back.

I second the exercise idea and the grip and rest ideas.

I went through some pretty severe right shoulder pain a few years back, diagnosed as impingement syndrome after an expensive MRI (which you do NOT want to pay for without good insurance. Even with it wasn't cheap.) My doctor recommended surgery and a cortizone shot, both of which I rejected in favor of physical therapy. I think the combination of physical therapy, my own exercise (I added chinups which seemed to help a lot) and playing trombone left handed helped. There is no right shoulder pain now and I'm throwing disc golf regularly.

Fast forward about 10 years and now my left shoulder is suffering. The left wrist hurt, I switched to pBone, and I think that like Philip says finding a support grip that doesn't stress it is key. When the left shoulder acted up I tried to go back to the doctor's stretching exercise and my chinups but I don't have the range of motion for either without some harsh pain. Turkish getups are out of the question on that side (and I was only doing them to try to balance left and right sides of the body.)

So anyway, here's my suggestion. Play the lightest trombone you can find, pBone if you have to, with lots of rest periods. Then without a gym, find workouts you can do at home cheaply without a lot of apparatus, and if anything hurts don't do it. One possible idea. Get Pavel's book on kettlebell workouts from the library (I love this classic quote from him: "Kettlebell swings will let you lose weight without the dishonor of aerobics." or something like that.) There are ways to do these without kettlebells, see here: Skip the first two minutes and ignore some of his mistakes but watch the assembly of the T bar, the visuals are good. Don't watch his swings, form is bad. Another idea, and this one has more promise I think, google TRX workouts. If you can find somewhere overhead to attach to, you can probably improvise a substitute for the TRX equipment. I've used it in the gym, and the real thing is awesome, but also a bit pricey. https://www.amazon.com/TRX-ALL-Suspensi ... B002YRB35I

Somethings to think about. I know upping my alcohol intake is helping as it should.