TromboneChat

hi folks, first of all sorry because my english is still working in progress.

My problem is that years ago a teacher (not very good teacher) told me to get a higher emplacement ambouchure due to my problems with my high register, I certainly improved the high register a bit but my low register started to sound worse, Today 2 years later, I have returned to a lower position and my low register has improved considerably, but I still having serious problems with my high register. So I am not sure what is my ideal position to be able to play as well in the high register as in the low register. My midlle register work fine in any embouchure.

I am in the 2nd year of my bachelor´s degree and I play at least 2 hours every day so I dont think it's a problem for no studying.
regards.

David Wilken has produced some excellent videos that cover exactly these concerns. Here is one of them:

A common misstake is to think that the placement is what makes the embouchure work, or not.
I can play the trombone with a very high place ment, or a very low placement and all positions in the middle of that.
From the lowest pedal to to the at least F 5. Of course it is good to find the placement that is the best for you. There is a lot more to the embouchure than just mpc placement. I have no idea why you teacher told you to move you mpc placement, he might be right or wrong. But you should not expect to solv you embouchure problem by just finding the right mpc placement.

Basbasun wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:53 am A common misstake is to think that the placement is what makes the embouchure work, or not.
I can play the trombone with a very high place ment, or a very low placement and all positions in the middle of that.
From the lowest pedal to to the at least F 5. Of course it is good to find the placement that is the best for you. There is a lot more to the embouchure than just mpc placement. I have no idea why you teacher told you to move you mpc placement, he might be right or wrong. But you should not expect to solv you embouchure problem by just finding the right mpc placement.

You're right about it not being EVERYTHING... But....

I think it's not just about placement up or down or sideways on the lips, it also has to do with the function - amount of pressure on top and bottom, amount of firmness and where that is. But the placement does have a lot to do with it. Just my opinion.

When I first took a lesson with Doug, he moved the mouthpiece around and he could hear a difference when it was right or at least better. I couldn't hear it then but I can now. So this may not be something you can figure out for yourself, depending on what type of embouchure you have (see the Wilken videos). I have the most common Very High Placement so it's probably easier for me than for a type like Dave's.

I hesitate to suggest this but I guess I'll say it anyway, somebody can comment if it's dangerous. If I play loud and low, I'll sometimes slip off my correct high placement down a bit lower. That's a good sound but it can't be pulled back up, and it's not correct function so it leads to confusion. My test for that is play a high middle range note and push it hard. If I can crescendo it hard I'm back where I need to be. If not I'm wrong. Once I get that hard crescendo I can keep the chops set there and pull the range down with the motion. Sometimes just thinking that crescendo is enough.

Basbasun wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:53 am A common misstake is to think that the placement is what makes the embouchure work, or not.

With respect, a more common mistake is to assume that how you think you're playing is how everyone else should be playing. Mouthpiece placement is extremely personal and an important part of how your embouchure functions. While you may feel like it's not so important, most other folks will likely find it to have more of an impact on their embouchure technique than you.

I can play the trombone with a very high place ment, or a very low placement and all positions in the middle of that.

I acknowledge that this is possible, but extremely unlikely. While conducting research for my dissertation one of my subjects (a very high placement embouchure) was also able to demonstrate to me that he could play a pretty good range on all three of the basic embouchure types. The Very High Placement type was clearly best for him, though.

It's more likely that what feels to you like a very low placement and all positions in the middle aren't really doing anything to change your embouchure type or aren't all that extreme of a change. I'm curious to see you playing over that range with both a very high and very low placement to see what that looks and sounds like.

Jose999 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:50 am My problem is that years ago a teacher (not very good teacher) told me to get a higher emplacement ambouchure due to my problems with my high register, I certainly improved the high register a bit but my low register started to sound worse, Today 2 years later, I have returned to a lower position and my low register has improved considerably, but I still having serious problems with my high register. So I am not sure what is my ideal position to be able to play as well in the high register as in the low register. My midlle register work fine in any embouchure.

Jose, in order to give you any specific advice we would need to see you play. If you can take video of your chops and post it for us to look at it, I'll see if I can spot anything. Private message me if you don't want to post it publicly. Another (perhaps better) alternative would be to take a video lesson with someone who understands embouchure technique. Trombone Chat moderator Doug Elliott teaches video lessons and is my teacher and go-to for embouchure form and function suggestions.

Good luck!

Dave

timothy42b wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:25 am hesitate to suggest this but I guess I'll say it anyway, somebody can comment if it's dangerous. If I play loud and low, I'll sometimes slip off my correct high placement down a bit lower. That's a good sound but it can't be pulled back up, and it's not correct function so it leads to confusion.

Tim, as a rule I don't recommend this.

When you're performing or rehearsing with other folks go ahead and do what you need to in order to sound good. When you practice, you should work some on not needing to do so.


Dave

Wilktone wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:13 am

timothy42b wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:25 am hesitate to suggest this but I guess I'll say it anyway, somebody can comment if it's dangerous. If I play loud and low, I'll sometimes slip off my correct high placement down a bit lower. That's a good sound but it can't be pulled back up, and it's not correct function so it leads to confusion.

Tim, as a rule I don't recommend this.

When you're performing or rehearsing with other folks go ahead and do what you need to in order to sound good. When you practice, you should work some on not needing to do so.


Dave

I guess I wasn't clear. I try very hard to stay on my correct high placement. If I slip down it is not because I am doing it to get a good sound, it is because I've been in the low range for a while and I've gotten careless or distracted. Most of the time the correct motion is enough to get me down into the low range without the slip.

What I was describing that may be dangerous is my test. If I've slipped down and try to crescendo hard up high, it won't work. The feel of the placement where I can crescendo is right. I use this once in a while to remind myself.

Sorry, Tim. The misunderstanding was mine.

timothy42b wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:49 am
What I was describing that may be dangerous is my test. If I've slipped down and try to crescendo hard up high, it won't work. The feel of the placement where I can crescendo is right. I use this once in a while to remind myself.

That makes sense. For me, a good way to get back on track if I’m getting slightly out of form or position is to play softly in the extreme upper register for a bit.

Also free buzzing. For me it’s about form, but for Very High Placement players buzzing into the instrument can help them find their setting and form.

Dave

I second Davids advice do a skype lesson with Doug Elliot, he's genius at these sort of things.

Doug