TromboneChat

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I think my tech used that with my Yamaha 354 that I was borrowing from a friend that needed slide work. I think all you do is put a rod made for the outer slide into the outer slide, then ran the slide over with tool. He also did some other stuff that some techs could explain.

LOL you just buy this and use it without the correctly sized rod in the outer slide. Hahahaha

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:49 pm LOL you just buy this and use it without the correctly sized rod in the outer slide. Hahahaha

Or.... DIY dual bore slide

Hello! I'm a repair tech and it's summer, so I'll type this quickly to give you an idea of what you're paying for when a legitimate repair tech does slide work. Most players have no idea how involved the work can (and should) be. I didn't know much about it until I went to Red Wing. The process is usually something like this for trombone outer handslide repair:

Inspect; clean; swab until cheesecloth comes out clean (it'll take several cuts and re-wraps to initially get it CLEAN); straighten individual tubes; align tubes; find the mandrel that fits as closely as possible (the full Votaw set is great); hold the slide tube against the mandrel and tap individual dents with a leather-wrapped rawhide mallet until the dents are less pronounced; swab until the cheesecloth comes out clean.

At this point, all tubes should be clean, straight, aligned, and with less-pronounced dents. The next steps vary from tech to tech (chime in if y'all want; I'm typing this in the middle of a sousaphone repair and will surely forget to type something), but they'll be a combination of the following:

More tapping (with different, specialized hammers)(also, without overworking the metal); swabbing (a great many times if you're serious about handslide repair); burnishing; cleaning/swabbing; using that Ferree's slide roller OR the Votaw roller OR a double-handled roller (all without overworking the metal - overwork leads to hardening, stretching, and even lengthening of the tubes); using a ring or hand burnisher around tight spots; straightening; aligning; cleaning; and swabbing again. Then you check the outer tubes individually with their respective inner tubes. If anything isn't working correctly at this stage, you'll have to repeat some steps. Once the tubes work perfectly individually, check them together. Repeat steps as needed. I'm leaving out all of the measuring, inspecting, and checking with various tools/devices. Finally, the tubes are clean, straight, aligned, round, and dent-free!

But wait, there's more!

It's probably still scratchy...

After all that, you'll want to polish the inside of the outer tubes. Every tech has a preference on this, but they all involve even more tools and supplies: The "Texas flush" and buffing with a chuck/drill/lathe-mounted slotted rod/cloth/compound/oil are probably the most common methods. After the inside of the outer tubes are polished, there's more degreasing and cleaning/swabbing to do.

After all of that, let the slide sit for a day. The metals may or may not have moved/shifted. If they've moved, there's more straightening and aligning. Repeat as needed until it's perfect (being picky is necessary).

That's a glimpse of the process on the fly. Any attempt at dent removal without an appropriately-sized mandrel will result in some expensive damage. You may also see a "dent expander" on repair tool sites - those are also quite bad for slides. You asked for the process! Hopefully this painted a decent picture. It's always fun to share this stuff with interested people.

All of the steps that check the inner and outer tubes against one another should be in playing position. It's easy to get false readings otherwise.

BHolleyBrass wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:39 pm All of the steps that check the inner and outer tubes against one another should be in playing position. It's easy to get false readings otherwise.

Very helpful, thank you! Just curious, did you choose to go in on a holiday?

Minimum number of tools I use to fix a slide:

leveling stone
calipers
slide roller tool
complete set of slide tube mandrels
torch
solder
flux
dent hammers
bench motor or electric drill
rod to polish outer tubes
cloth strips
polishing compound

No problem! I did choose to work today. Business just picked up this week and I’m trying to keep my band directors happy.

Guess i’ll just take it to my tech

Elow,

I think another thing to remember about any tool is what was told to me by a master craftsman in a body shop many years ago.....it doesn’t matter how much you pay for a tool (he was showing me a $25,000 device used to straighten a unibody chassis), the tool is only as good as the skills of the craftsman using it.

That being said....I do not use that particular tool on trombone slides. A few technicians advised me that it tends to make outer slides severely out-of-round. There are other tools that also make outer slides out-of-round and there are tools to return the roundness to the tubes. However, the people who warned me about that particular tool said that it can really cause harm. A couple of those techs actually use that tool, but they only use one side (just one roller at a time).

To put another spin on this tool... I was friends with Cliff Ferree when I was in high school and college. Interesting guy. He gave me a lot of tools to fix slides, some of his prototype versions or items that he couldn't or didn't want to sell for one reason or another. He would give me a lesson or two on how to use them on some junk parts we had lying around and then let me take the tools if he wanted them out of his shop. He had a couple of these, he noted that we did not have the time to learn these. (We had all summer if we wanted, and I think his employees liked that he was otherwise occupied when he brought me into the shop).

So, no, I don't use these. Some people do, but I know my limits.

Cheers,
Andy

If you read BHolleyBrass's response, you'll see you're getting about $600 of work for that $200 or so you pay a tech.

I helped relatives re-roof a shed the past two weekends. The condition was bad enough no contractor would have touched it for a reasonable cost, and they saved a lot over doing it correctly. They didn't spend a lot on materials but they also didn't get a quality job. They got "good enough." But it's really hard to DIY good enough for a slide.

I remember reading Dan Oberloh's commentary on all the galleries he's got of repairs. "The dent machine can make dents much more easily than it removes them", or something along those lines.

If I want a slide worked on, I want good work, which is why I take it to a good tech. Years of experience and training are far better than my crappy attempt at being a hobby repair person.

Elow wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:05 pm https://www.ferreestoolsinc.com/product ... 8107979823
It looks pretty simple, but im still scared.

I was a band instrument repairman for 40+ years. By the end of my working life I was very confident in all aspects of instrument repair. In my experience the 3 most finicky and skill intensive instruments to work on were full conservatory oboes, piccolos, AND TROMBONE SLIDES. They are fun and definitely not easy.

BHolleyBrass wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:39 pm All of the steps that check the inner and outer tubes against one another should be in playing position. It's easy to get false readings otherwise.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!

Drives me NUTS when someone tries a slide like that after I work on it and mentions "it's still a bit sticky", usually mediocre players....

Eric

Elow wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:05 pm https://www.ferreestoolsinc.com/product ... 8107979823
I met a guy to buy a corp 42 and he brought 2 of them and said hed add the extra for $50, so of course i bought it. The slide has so many dents and i can take it to my tech, but im scared of how much it will cost. I also would like to just fix any slides that i buy without annoying my tech every week. Whats the process? It looks pretty simple, but im still scared.

Slide repair IS simple.....Once you've done a couple of hundred or so....

That thing is just another tool in a techs arsenal, most likely used as a last step IF needed, but DEFINITELY not to repair dents!!!!

And no I don't have one, but I DO have a similar burnishing tool I made.

Eric

I'm laughing at Eric's comments about his customers that say "it's still a bit sticky." I have seen the same.....people who bring me a slide so horrible that it could stay frozen at ANY POINT on the entire slide. Yet, these are the same people who suddenly become very picky about how good their slide is after repairs. I want to scream at them and say....."do you realize the miracle that I just performed on your trombone slide?" Fortunately, I have only seen that about 4 or 5 times.

The funny situation that I see constantly is the customer (usually a school kid) who does not realize how easily their slide moves after the repairs. They ask if they can play test the trombone in front of me. I warn them...."your slide moves very easily, do NOT take your hand off of the slide!" What do they do? They start playing, take their right hand off of the slide to scratch their butt or something (because that is what they are accustomed to doing) and the slide goes flying across the room.

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:08 am
The funny situation that I see constantly is the customer (usually a school kid) who does not realize how easily their slide moves after the repairs. They ask if they can play test the trombone in front of me. I warn them...."your slide moves very easily, do NOT take your hand off of the slide!" What do they do? They start playing, take their right hand off of the slide to scratch their butt or something (because that is what they are accustomed to doing) and the slide goes flying across the room.

Thank you for a good laugh

BHolleyBrass wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:36 pm ...You may also see a "dent expander" on repair tool sites - those are also quite bad for slides...

Yes. I'm not a repair tech but I know about both good and bad outcomes with expanders used on trombone slides.

If all goes well, great.

ONE bad thing that can happen is, especially when working with nickel-brass (aka "nickel silver") outer slide tubes, where the nickel can make the tubes quite hard (nickel is a hard metal), is this:

The thin chromed steel plating on the working part of the expander can wear away faster, and the expander's sharp chrome damaged edges left behind can badly scratch the inside of the slide tube. The result will be an awfully scratchy slide that will cause wear on the inner slide tubes' plating.