TromboneChat

hi!

i play a king 3b and a selmer paris MB-40 with a vincent bach 6 1/2 AL, i am thinking on trying a new mouthpiece, what do you think is the best for playing jazz?

I think before you can determine that, you have to know what you are lacking!  Why do you want to switch mouthpieces?  I know lots of folks who play a 6.5al for jazz and sound great! 

"The one that works best for you"

"What does your teacher say?"

"Get a lesson from XYZABC"

but I'd recommend a 6.5AL wothout knowing or hearing you.

The best mouthpiece for jazz is the one you play jazz on.  I know people playing jazz on all different sizes of mouthpieces.

You change mouthpieces because the one you are playing isn't helping you.  You need to have problems.  So what problems do you have?  What can't you do on the 6 1/2 AL?  It could be the mouthpiece or it could be you.  No mouthpiece will help you improvise.  No mouthpiece will give you a "jazz feel".  No mouthpiece by itself will play the music.

So give us a few details.  Maybe a mouthpiece change is in order, or maybe some exercises we can suggest on your current one.

Quote from: andrescoli on Today at 09:23 AMhi!

i play a king 3b and a selmer paris MB-40 with a vincent bach 6 1/2 AL, i am thinking on trying a new mouthpiece, what do you think is the best for playing jazz?



Generally, anything that at least someone else plays ranging from a 1.06" rim through a .96" rim size and a cup depth that is around the depth of your current piece or a little shallower.

That's about as good as you're going to get. If there was one mouthpiece that would work universally for jazz, there wouldn't be thousands of options!

Nothing wrong with a 6 1/2 AL for Jazz on a 3B (and I've used one with the horn for quite a while), but I do think I prefer the sound of a 7C on my 3B especially for Jazz.  The rim size is very similar, but the C cup seems to give the tone a little more edge. If you are looking to try out something different, but not too different I would give a 7C a try.

What mouthpiece is "best" for jazz is a matter of taste. And trying out new mouthpieces is interesting but can easily be expensive.

For me, the 6,5 is too "round" in the sound and I have found that I like the 11C type mouthpieces best. (I use 11C on King 3B and 2B).

Other popular types are 12C or 7C so this is quite an individual thing.

The question is: What do you feel is wrong with the 6 1/2AL? Too big sounding? Too much work in the high register? Too big feeling on your face?

I guess there is another question to be asked: What do you mean by "jazz"? Do you mean playing in a jazz big band? What part? I probably wouldn't use a 6 1/2AL for lead parts, but for 2nd or 3rd, it's fine. Or do you mean that you play in a small jazz group? Jazz as a type of music doesn't have a perfect mouthpiece.

Any one of us can tell you what works for us, but there's a good chance that it won't work for you. I've played a Schilke 47 for the majority of my career, but the only other trombone player I know who plays one is Trombone Shorty.

If you can answer the above questions, maybe we'll be able to guide you a little better.

I use a Bach 5 on my 3B playing lead.  Works for me, but I played a 5G on a .547 for 30 years before I went small bore.  You just gotta find what works for YOU.

I have been using a Warburton 7M for the past 2-3 years to play lead in a big bang. Expensive, but I really like it.

Over the years, I have seen anything and everything from about a 12C to a 4C commented on for their merits when playing "jazz". So it's all about you and/or your section leader and/or your musical director. What do you guys want?

If you wish to experiment, probably a good starting point is the one you are playing now. Try bracketing that size; one size up and one size down and OBTW, with different cups and bore/back-bore sizes. Join the club and welcome to our world!

...Geezer

Quote from: ntap on Aug 07, 2017, 09:33AMI think before you can determine that, you have to know what you are lacking!  Why do you want to switch mouthpieces?  I know lots of folks who play a 6.5al for jazz and sound great! 

Hi Again!

Thank you for your answers, i like my 6 1/2AL, i ask for two reasons, first is the only mouthpiece a ever have, so i want to try another one to feel the difference. And second i want to feel more confortable in the higher register.

i ask for jazz music because i play in a big band and in smaller bands, not for the notes i play, more for color and texture.

thanks again for your notes

Quote from: BGuttman on Aug 07, 2017, 09:59AMThe best mouthpiece for jazz is the one you play jazz on.  I know people playing jazz on all different sizes of mouthpieces.

You change mouthpieces because the one you are playing isn't helping you.  You need to have problems.  So what problems do you have?  What can't you do on the 6 1/2 AL?  It could be the mouthpiece or it could be you.  No mouthpiece will help you improvise.  No mouthpiece will give you a "jazz feel".  No mouthpiece by itself will play the music.

So give us a few details.  Maybe a mouthpiece change is in order, or maybe some exercises we can suggest on your current one.

Hi Again!

Thank you for your answers, i like my 6 1/2AL, i ask for two reasons, first is the only mouthpiece a ever have, so i want to try another one to feel the difference. And second i want to feel more confortable in the higher register.

i ask for jazz music because i play in a big band and in smaller bands, not for the notes i play, more for color and texture.

thanks again for your notes

Quote from: Matt K on Aug 07, 2017, 10:04AMGenerally, anything that at least someone else plays ranging from a 1.06" rim through a .96" rim size and a cup depth that is around the depth of your current piece or a little shallower.

That's about as good as you're going to get. If there was one mouthpiece that would work universally for jazz, there wouldn't be thousands of options!

Quote from: DaveAshley on Aug 07, 2017, 05:56PMThe question is: What do you feel is wrong with the 6 1/2AL? Too big sounding? Too much work in the high register? Too big feeling on your face?

I guess there is another question to be asked: What do you mean by "jazz"? Do you mean playing in a jazz big band? What part? I probably wouldn't use a 6 1/2AL for lead parts, but for 2nd or 3rd, it's fine. Or do you mean that you play in a small jazz group? Jazz as a type of music doesn't have a perfect mouthpiece.

Any one of us can tell you what works for us, but there's a good chance that it won't work for you. I've played a Schilke 47 for the majority of my career, but the only other trombone player I know who plays one is Trombone Shorty.

If you can answer the above questions, maybe we'll be able to guide you a little better.

Hi Again!

Thank you for your answers, i like my 6 1/2AL, i ask for two reasons, first is the only mouthpiece a ever have, so i want to try another one to feel the difference. And second i want to feel more confortable in the higher register.

i ask for jazz music because i play in a big band and in smaller bands, not for the notes i play, more for color and texture.

thanks again for your notes

Pick up a 6 1/2A (not AL).  It's basically the same, but with a tighter throat. This is probably the quickest solution to your range issue without too much of a change.

Quote from: DaveAshley on Aug 08, 2017, 08:05AMPick up a 6 1/2A (not AL).  It's basically the same, but with a tighter throat. This is probably the quickest solution to your range issue without too much of a change.

yes!!!

A solution taken by many fine NYC non-orchestral freelance players in the late '60s/early '70s. They...we, actually...came up using 6.5ALs and smallbore/medium bore horns, and when we got to NYC we found that they were just too...effortful...and not focused enough above about 9th partial C fr what were being asked to play. The next step for most of us was a 6.5A.

A good step...in the right direction,at least.

Later...

S.

There is no BEST mouthpiece, because this depends on 2 things: the instrument and the person playing.

I also used to play a 6,5AL for a while on the King 3b, works fine.

If you want to experiance the change of sound, then try some.
I don't own a King 3b anymore, but I bought a 7c for my King2B+ which is still fine.
I use a Yamaha 45c2 (some say this is comparable with a Bach 12c, but I also have a 12c which sounds completely different) on my K&H Bart van Lier .512 (Close to the .508 bore you have on the King 3B).

I have bought some used mouthpieces which diodn't cost too much and kept the ones I liked and sold the rest again.

The 7C I use is GEWA (Bach mouthpieces are produced by GEWA, so this is probably the same mouthpiece, just cheaper).
I also have an old Bach 7C which plays the same as the GEWA but is in worse condition (So I had the choice of replating or buying the GEWA).

If you are interested in matching the kind of section sound that was common up to about 1965 you'll need something like a Bach C cup on whatever you end up with. 

If you're playing newer stuff, especially things since 1990 or so, it won't matter. 

My mouthpieces are super! Somedays. But other days they suck.

A common first step for going smaller than 6 1/2 is to try a 7C. Faxx makes a super cheap one.

I eventually settled in the middle, in the 6 3/4 space. But it's not as well defined, nor as cheap to try.

 

Remember, she's going to a large bore horn.  I don't know too many 7C's with large shank (yes, they exist; but are rare).  She can easily get a 6.5 AL or a Yamaha 47B in large shank.

Quote from: BGuttman on Aug 21, 2017, 12:18PMRemember, she's going to a large bore horn.  I don't know too many 7C's with large shank (yes, they exist; but are rare).  She can easily get a 6.5 AL or a Yamaha 47B in large shank.
I read "King 3b" ...

 

Perhaps there is a slight misconception that a "jazz" mpc means one on which a player can play very, very high. Not all players perform jazz in the high-end register. Shouldn't a jazz mpc selection process take into account in order of importance:

1) Sound - if you squawk like a duck, who would want to listen
2) Articulation - similarly, no one wants to listen to someone playing sloppily and chipping every other note
3) flexibility - jazz tends to showcase a player's ability to make at least some modest jumps
4) range - high range is an asset, but should it be more important than everything else?

If you like a given mpc and it re-orders the above for you in some other way - I contend you have made a questionable choice, regardless of what numbers & letters are stamped on the rim of the mpc, who the manufacturer is or even who else you know of plays on it.

We are judged as a player on how well we perform in public, not on how well we do in our practice room. It's nice to tinker with something that may give a kick of a couple top notes, but when what I play is exposed, in whatever group - give me my best sound and clearest articulation. I'll work around the other two if I must.

...Geezer

Quote from: svenlarsson on Aug 21, 2017, 04:52AMMy mouthpieces are super! Somedays. But other days they suck.

Love that one ! 

Perhaps there is a slight misconception that a "jazz" mpc means one on which a player can play very, very high. Not all players perform jazz in the high-end register. Shouldn't a jazz mpc selection process take into account in order of importance:

1) Sound - if you squawk like a duck, who would want to listen
2) Articulation - similarly, no one wants to listen to someone playing sloppily and chipping every other note
3) flexibility - jazz tends to showcase a player's ability to make at least some modest jumps
4) range - high range is an asset, but should it be more important than everything else?

If you like a given mpc and it re-orders the above for you in some other way - I contend you have made a questionable choice, regardless of what numbers & letters are stamped on the rim of the mpc, who the manufacturer is or even who else you know of plays on it.

We are judged as a player on how well we perform in public, not on how well we do in our practice room. It's nice to tinker with something that may give a kick of a couple top notes, but when what I play is exposed, in whatever group - give me my best sound and clearest articulation. I'll work around the other two if I must.

...Geezer