TromboneChat

Shameless plug: my ensemble, the Consort laurentien, just released our first video (recorded a while back but I only had time to do the video editing now).

We play Dario Castello's Sonata duodecima from his second book of sonatas (1629). Castello was the leader of the instrumental ensemble at Saint Mark's in Venice at the time where Monteverdi was the chapel master. The ensemble by then included both winds and strings. He was a violinist (but probably doubled on some wind instruments as well), while his brother was one of the trombonists in the ensemble. His music is challenging but also super idiomatic for all the instruments involved, and an absolute blast to play.

Great playing all round, and a surprisingly full Sackbut tone as well.

Lovely! Thank you for posting.

Beautiful! Castello is so wonderful to listen to.

Maximilien,

Excellent, moving performance, with beautiful full sound in a nice resonant venue, and (as far as I know) idiomatic style entirely appropriate for this music. It was a pleasure to listen / view.
Bravi!

Please provide more recordings.

Excellent performance
Do you have any recordings out? CD`s?

Posaunus wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 12:35 pm Maximilien,

Excellent, moving performance, with beautiful full sound in a nice resonant venue, and (as far as I know) idiomatic style entirely appropriate for this music. It was a pleasure to listen / view.
Bravi!

Please provide more recordings.

Thank you! Yes, that church is a quite beautiful space. It is actually a bit of a mess for concerts as it's very boomy with all the marble and the high round ceiling, and you need only move 10 meters or so to lose all definition (and it has something like a 7 second reverb!) — I've conducted and played there many times and it's quite a challenge — but we found out doing this tape that it works really well for recording this kind of music, and really helps each of our instruments a lot, in a session setting. Our sound engineer was in awe as the natural reverb of the space was exactly the right amount and he neither needed to mike us too close nor to add any reverb in post.

We have at least one, maybe two more videos coming up from that session (and we have more tracks of audio but need to decide if it's worth releasing it without video). There might be another Castello in there as well as a very virtuosic trombone solo. Stay tuned!

dukesboneman wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 4:07 pm Excellent performance
Do you have any recordings out? CD`s?

We don't have a CD yet. It's a bit slow going as this group is spread over both sides of the ocean, but we're working to get more bookings, and albums are definitely in the plans for the future.

Excellent performance! It's always a treat to hear Baroque music with the proper instruments. Here's an example of playing upper partials:

Doubler wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 9:12 pm It's always a treat to hear Baroque music with the proper instruments. Here's an example of playing upper partials:

Good grief! Incroyable.

Who said that modern instruments are superior to those of the Baroque? Different? – yes. Better? – no way.

Perhaps this is close to what Bach actually heard (or imagined). Merveilleux.

Maximilien,

Your sackbut tone and technique are superb. This is the sound I was trying to achieve when I played sackbut for a few years many decades ago. I had it in my head, but I never came close to your level.

Magnifique!

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 7:44 am Shameless plug: my ensemble, the Consort laurentien, just released our first video (recorded a while back but I only had time to do the video editing now).

We play Dario Castello's Sonata duodecima from his second book of sonatas (1629).

Nice!
But two comments:
Don't you think it would be more appropriate to play the trilli with a breath (or throat) articulation (as implied, for example, by Caccini and Fantini)?

This music really requires an organ (and a chitarrone) for the continuo. Harpsichord doesn't make it, especially in a church acoustic -- the sound of a harpischord decays very quickly and almost none of it gets past the first pew. Not to mention the sustained bass notes, particularly in Castello, which are not really playable on harpsichord.

Howard

HowardW wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 5:59 am Nice!
But two comments:
Don't you think it would be more appropriate to play the trilli with a breath (or throat) articulation (as implied, for example, by Caccini and Fantini)?

This music really requires an organ (and a chitarrone) for the continuo. Harpsichord doesn't make it, especially in a church acoustic -- the sound of a harpischord decays very quickly and almost none of it gets past the first pew. Not to mention the sustained bass notes, particularly in Castello, which are not really playable on harpsichord.

Howard

Hi Howard! Thanks for the comment.

[I'll just add some notes between brackets for those who might follow the discussion and not be familiar with the historical terminology.]

For the trilli [not a trill, but those repeated ornamental notes we sometimes add, sometimes are written], I have been experimenting with various ways of articulating them. Breath, throat, lingua dritta [tere tere] and lingua riversa [doodle-ish tonguing]. I keep changing my mind about it. They all sound vastly different, and I've found use for all depending on context (musical but also in terms of setting — they also of course sound different depending on the acoustic and how far the audience is. I wouldn't necessarily use the same for a recording as I would playing a solo from an organ loft in a big church, for instance). I have been wondering about whether one is decisively more historically appropriate and I don't have an answer, except that I don't think we can be entirely categorical with the limited source material that describes it as applied to wind instruments. As much as I like to think playing sackbut is much like being a singer, it is nonetheless not the same, mechanically, and I don't think strictly following vocal technique is an absolute answer. Since it's pretty clear that lingua riversa is to wind instruments what gorgia [fast articulation from the throat] is to singers for passaggi, I don't think it's a huge stretch to use it in a fast trillo. So far in most contexts and particularly for fast trilli it is the way I sound closest to a singer at the moment (i.e. for now, my using a fast throat or breath articulation most definitely doesn't sound like a singer's fast trillo, although I would love to reach that point). For the slow (and written) trilli, it is a decision we made as a group to articulate them that way at the time but I do think breath articulations would also have worked very well.

As for the continuo instrument, I agree with you that organ and chitarrone [theorbo] is a better choice, especially with a proper Italian-style organ, and that harpsichord can be problematic in some acoustics in a concert setting. But in the absence of a chitarrone and when the only option is a wood-pipe chest organ, I would in most contexts rather have a harpsichord, which gives a lot more energy and a more flexible momentum to the music. I find the type of chest organs typically available today to be extremely dull and lacking in color and energy, and essentially useless for this music unless you have a chitarrone as well. We chose not to have a chitarrone in the core line-up of the group to be more flexible, and can always hire one for projects when needed and possible. This was not a concert, but a very low budget recording session not for commercial release. There was no money for hiring a theorbo player (or renting an organ, for that matter — the harpsichord is our keyboardist's). Meanwhile, proper Italian-style organs in portable size are unfortunately still more or less a rarity (especially in North America, where this group originates). When we have the opportunity to play with one (or a real full-sized one), we will absolutely do so, and when we record a CD someday, that would be something we'd very much try to get. But otherwise we just make the best of what is available to us, like they would have done in the 17th century (organ being generally preferred but a manacordo being an acceptable instrument is fairly well documented).

As promised a second video (a solo piece played on trombone this time):

Nice.

Wow!

Wonderful. I have never heard of Rore, but I cannot imagine this being played any better. Wonderful technique, very smooth, impeccable intonation. Bravo!

Posaunus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:03 pm Wonderful. I have never heard of Rore, but I cannot imagine this being played any better. Wonderful technique, very smooth, impeccable intonation. Bravo!

Thank you! Impeccable intonation, I'm not sure, but I'll try to get it even better when/if I record it for commercial release in the future.

Rore was one of the most prolific and influential composers of the mid-16th century, his madrigals in particular were very influential for the secular music of the generations after him. In this recording, his music is the original 4-voice madrigal (i.e. what my colleague plays on the harpsichord) upon which the ornamented line is written.

The ornamented solo line is by Girolamo Dalla Casa, who was a cornettist and the first leader of the instrumental ensemble in Saint Mark's, and who published one of the most important pedagogical books on ornamentation. This piece is one of many from that book; demonstrations of how to improvise (or compose) an ornamental line upon the framework of popular existing polyphonic works. Basically the equivalent of transcriptions of Jazz solos. It is not explicitly written for one instrument but is fairly clearly written with viola da gamba in mind, although several instruments are associated with playing in this style and trombone is one of them.

Your playing is really nice, I love it.

I've never really 'got' Baroque music. It always sounded rather boring and predictable to my uneducated ears. I could never sense any emotion in the music.
This performance was a real eye/ear opener for me. I could 'feel' it. It told a story.
The sound and intonation of each instrument and musician was so good.
The sacbut surprised me with it's very resonant sound.
Absolutely enjoyed it.

One of the things that often are forgotten is that on repeated strains it was customary to add some ornamentation ("diminution"?). Maximilien has really added some ornaments that make the piece resonate.

PhilE wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:04 pm I've never really 'got' Baroque music. It always sounded rather boring and predictable to my uneducated ears. I could never sense any emotion in the music.
This performance was a real eye/ear opener for me. I could 'feel' it. It told a story.
The sound and intonation of each instrument and musician was so good.
The sacbut surprised me with it's very resonant sound.
Absolutely enjoyed it.

I used to really not like it either. I think it was because of years of hearing not particularly good/pedestrian sounding pieces of high baroque/pre-classical (I.e. 18th century) music played by modern orchestras or soloists who don't know what to do with baroque music, in movies (typically aural code for "boring social event with rich people eating canapés) and ads and in music appreciation classes. And the rare times I played any baroque music were in brass ensembles, playing Gabrieli without knowing anything about how that music works and what to do with it. It took me hearing exciting recordings, on period instruments and by specialist singers, of early baroque (17th century) music to start being intrigued. And it's only after learning about that music and starting to specialise in playing it that I could start really appreciating the later baroque music, coming to it so to speak from music earlier than it rather than looking back from a 19th-21st century perspective.

Thanks for that insight.
The other thing I found fascinating was the sound of the cornett - full and rich.
I suspect it might be fairly difficult to play well.

PhilE wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:40 am Thanks for that insight.
The other thing I found fascinating was the sound of the cornett - full and rich.
I suspect it might be fairly difficult to play well.

It is considered one of the most difficult instruments to learn and to play, indeed. It takes a very relaxed and delicate embouchure, it's all about finesse. The mouthpiece is extremely small (smaller than French horn in most cases) and the feeling is different on every note because of the finger holes. It's very unstable and you can almost play any note on any fingering, so it takes very precise control. And cornettists were then and are now expected to add a lot of extemporaneous, very virtuosic ornaments to the music. My colleague here is a former trumpet player and he couldn't play cornett with the mouthpiece centered, there is too much muscle mass and his trumpet embouchure trained to play loud and high and with a big even tone for extended periods of time is just not delicate enough to maintain control of the sound and subletly of articulation on cornett. Many players now use (and many players then used) a sideways embouchure, sometimes as far as the corner of the lips.

It was, at the time, basically the king of instruments, partly because it was considered closest to the human voice (it does blend incredibly well with voices) and because its clear sound and technique lend themselves very well to ornamentation.

I should point out that a lot of players of the Shofar (ram's horn) use a side embouchure. The "mouthpiece" of the Shofar is probably similar to the Cornett.

Cornett was the king of all instruments...

Luckily, the sackbut was and is the queen of all instruments, checkmating the king each and every time.

Breathtaking is my favorite album featuring cornetto:
http://www.brucedickey.com/discography

Beautiful.

I have a Monk resin cornetto and the acorn mouthpiece is larger than for shofars that I've played. I can play the harmonic series on a shofar, but can barely get a 'note' out of the cornetto.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:26 am Cornett was the king of all instruments...

Luckily, the sackbut was and is the queen of all instruments, checkmating the king each and every time.

Ha! Yes we like to think that but we don't tell them that

slipperyjoe wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:36 am Breathtaking is my favorite album featuring cornetto:
http://www.brucedickey.com/discography

Beautiful.

That is a choice that is hard to argue against! I heard that concert live last fall and it was mind-blowing. Very much looking forward to hearing the second iteration of that project (same concept and collaborators, new programme)

Bruce Dickey is probably one of the greatest musicians alive. He's the kind of musician that enters the room and the mood instsntly changes and everyone turns to him to follow his leadership, no matter if he's formally the leader of the project or not, not because he is intimidating but because he has such an inspiring presence. I met him for the first time maybe five years ago and since then I've learned a lot every time I've played for him as a student or with him on gigs (I have to pinch myself every time) or had a conversation with him or even just heard him play in person. And many of my colleagues that are 10 or 20 years older and have known him for decades would still say the same thing.

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:19 am That is a choice that is hard to argue against! I heard that concert live last fall and it was mind-blowing. Very much looking forward to hearing the second iteration of that project (same concept and collaborators, new programme)

That will be great!

I didn't get a chance to hear Breathtaking live, but hopefully the next version:

http://www.brucedickey.com/on-the-breath-of-angels

I hope there will be a new recording as well.

Edit: The tour has been cancelled due to COVID:
http://www.brucedickey.com/calendar

Amazing, thanks for sharing!!