TromboneChat

Hi all,
 Right now i am currently transferring to Rowan University in the fall under their music education/Jazz degree program. I am not sure that education is the right track that I want to go down, there are a lot of things involved with the education major (i.e. praxis tests, and internships). (And even though the degree is listed as music ed/jazz, advisors told me i will see very little jazz interaction)  Any ways, I am very interested in Jazz, and they have a very good jazz degree program at rowan. My only concern is that I am unsure if it would be a smart move to major solely in Jazz. They also offer a music business/production program which was a field i am also interested in and that would be a smart move as far as being able to get a job somewhere once i graduate, but at the same time I would lose out on the jazz. Anyone else ever been caught in this crossroad of what they wanted to do in the field of music. Any advice/input would be greatly appreciated. What ever i do, I don't want to miss out on the jazz.
      Thank you
          -Jonathan

I can't speak to the wisdom of a pure jazz degree, but I'll note that a music education job is 10% music, 90% management.

Do not go into education unless you are absolutely thrilled about answering a question every time you are re-asked it.

A teaching job is very much about re-treading the same ground over and over. New students arrive every fall or every semester... you are back where you started.

Some people thrive on the challenge of that and they make good teachers.

I can only share what I wish I had known at your age...  I was a performance major at a well known music school...got paid to play for a while after that,  but not enough to have a wife, children, home, pay "all" the bills on time,  etc. so, I've been selling advertising for over 30 years.  The facts are that very, very few can make a steady comfortable living that can support a family, by only playing trombone.  No one should keep you from trying to be one of those very few,  but if you're already not spending 6-8 hours a day with a horn in your hands,  you may want to consider having a degree where the numbers of working professionals are greater.  And, then continue to work very hard at playing at the level you strive for.  A great personal instructor and dedicated practice each day will take you far,  and can be done while getting another degree.  Lastly,  I 've also heard this rule of thumb when considering a performance degree... If you can imagine yourself doing something else,  then do something else.

Good luck with all...

I don't normally post "LMGTFY" type posts and I'm doing so now only because the search engine on this site isn't particularly useful. There have been several very good threads in the last year though that have lots of information in them, I recommend looking here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=college+major+site%3Atromboneforum.org&oq=college+major+site%3Atromboneforum.org&aqs=chrome..69i57.4143j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

And reading through the pertinent threads in the first 2 or 3 pages of search results. 

In condensed format you'll find basically a few things:

1) As rob mentioned, if you can do something else, do it
2) You have to be really dedicated, but people do make it work
3) Hedge your bets and get the music ed degree, you might like it
4) Go all in, every minute you spend not practicing, someone else is

So you aren't likely to get much in the way of having someone be able to tell you specifically what to do, but you will get a wide range of opinions that will hopefully be useful to you!

In general, if you're going into debt to get a performance degree, definitely think twice about that.  Or thrice. Or more.  I was in a similar situation as yourself when I was going into high school about a decade ago. -I decided music education, for what its worth and fortunately, I didn't need to take on much debt (just summer school to fit all the credits in and still have practice time).  After finishing, I went back to school to do a bachelors in business, which I did have to take some debt for.  Now after graduating, I'm making pretty good money because of the business degree, but still have a huge pile of debt to pay off.  That would be a lot harder if I were making entry level teacher salary or doing what a lot of my peers in music school are doing, which is around 50% of the class I was in (at least the ones I see on facebook)- who seem to be doing miscellaneous jobs that don't really require a degree.  You can be a manager at McDonalds w/o one, afterall! And I don't actually mean that with any negative connotation. There is a terrific cellist at one of the McDonalds in town and he's making pretty good money as a manager. He didn't need a degree in cello performance to do that! Although in this particular case he's glad he got the experience of playing some of the rep he did and enjoying college while he was still young.

One more thing I forgot to add: You can get a degree in something and just take jazz classes.  Actually, you may well get more ensemble time if you major in something like business and just do ensembles with the jazz department wherever you go.  I've yet to hear of a program that wouldn't let you take lessons or ensembles because you were a non-major.  I'm actually about to do a masters in data science at the local university and I'm trying to see if there's a way I can fit in doing my 40 hour work week, the masters degree, and one of the jazz ensembles myself.  If only I didn't have that 40 hour work commitment every week, I'd have a lot more time for trombone!

Almost no one on this forum is making a living doing what you're talking about (just playing jazz). I'd venture to say that real jazz music is significantly less popular amongst music consumers than classical and modern orchestral music, which themselves are just a tiny slice of the music industry.

If you checked around and discovered that to be true on your own, and didn't take my word for it, how would that affect the question you're asking?

I again want to point out that JJ Johnson, probably one of the best jazz trombone players ever, had a "day job" as a Drawing Inspector for the Sperry Corporation for when the gigs dried up.

The Big Band era died in the 1950s and almost nobody makes a living touring in one.  I know one terrific jazz player who was a High School jazz teacher (actually, probably more).  Others get jobs in music related fields like retailing or sound engineering.  Some learn a piece of electronic gear (gee-tar, keybaords, etc.) and can earn a living that way.  Many take a "day job" like the cellist mentioned above.  We have a terrific jazz player in my Shriner Big Band (Berklee grad, student of Phil Wilson) who is a Massachusetts State Cop.

There are lots of opportunities to play jazz, but few opportunities to make money at it.

Thank you everyone for your input,
 I think for right now i will continue on down the path of the music education track for the fall semester,I am going to investigate the music industry program they have and see what they have to offer. As others have said perhaps i will find out i like the music education track and will end up staying down that path. I am fortunate that it is early in my schooling at rowan and will be easy to change if i decide the next semester to enter a different music path. Thank you all for your help!

I know this view isn't really popular, but I think that you should go for the degree that you have the highest passion. It will make it easier to be successful in getting that degree, plus, you will enjoy it much more.

Jobs?

Most jobs in America that require degrees don't matter what degree you have. I have a relative with a marketing degree that is an executive vice president for HP. I know people with music degrees with high paying positions in various IT departments. Management and Business positions are filled with people with music degrees.

You may not end up working full time playing as a jazz trombonist, but there are opportunities all over the place if you present yourself in the right way during interviews. Your Jazz degree will still be an asset.

As applicable to music as it is to visual art: So Your Kid Wants to be an Artist.

Let those with ears to hear, hear.

Quote from: ddickerson on Aug 02, 2017, 08:50AMI know this view isn't really popular, but I think that you should go for the degree that you have the highest passion. It will make it easier to be successful in getting that degree, plus, you will enjoy it much more.

Jobs?

Most jobs in America that require degrees don't matter what degree you have. I have a relative with a marketing degree that is an executive vice president for HP. I know people with music degrees with high paying positions in various IT departments. Management and Business positions are filled with people with music degrees.

You may not end up working full time playing as a jazz trombonist, but there are opportunities all over the place if you present yourself in the right way during interviews. Your Jazz degree will still be an asset.


This!

There's that notion that getting a performance degree but not managing to make a living only out of playing is a failure. I don't think it is. Do what you want, be dedicated to whatever you choose to do, do it well, and you'll find a way to succeed. In the end you'll find out that you aren't so good at certain things and on the contrary, have a special talent at other things. Then the key is to create your own path and your own job using what you're good at and enjoy doing.

There is also that idea that one shouldn't be a "jack of all trade, master of none". Reality is, in the music world only a very few people are the best at what they do. The majority get work because they are both good enough and versatile enough.

I would strongly advise against spending 5-6 hours in be practice room. If you need 5-6 hours, you're a)not practicing efficiently and b)not meeting key people for your future musical life and seizing opportunities to learn other valuable skills than playing trombone.

Most people I've known who practiced like crazy end up not succeeding in the music world, even if they're really, really good at their instruments,because they're betting *everything* on being good, and there's simply too many people who are good.

Most of my past teachers and my colleagues are doing at least 2, 3, sometimes 4 different things in the general music world, and don't need a job outside of that.


 
Get good at doubling. Learn doubling instruments that are either in high demand or in very low offer.

Get really good in music theory and be always curious about music history. If you ever land a college teaching job, being qualified to teach either theory, ear training or history is super useful to boost your hours (and your salary!). 

Get good at arranging, orchestrating. Big stars don't make their own arrangements and orchestrations, they hire people to do it. It can be really lucrative.

Get very fluent with Sibelius/Finale. Music engraving can be a rather lucrative business, even for freelancers. You won't learn it at any school. Virtually everyone in the field is self-taught.

Get a job as a stagehand, learn about the technical side of the music industry. It's a pretty nice sideline (if freelancing) or day job (if for a company) to have, usually with flexible hours because most in the field are also musicians. You get to attend good concerts, and work in a musical environment.

Become at least a decent conductor. Being able to apply for jobs when local orchestras, big bands, choirs or concert bands are looking for a Music Director is another great way to give a small boost to your revenue, and it's very musically rewarding.


Those are all things you won't learn in college, but that are complementary to and very compatible with a performance degree.

Quote from: Le.Tromboniste on Yesterday at 09:02 PMGet a job as a stagehand, learn about the technical side of the music industry. It's a pretty nice sideline (if freelancing) or day job (if for a company) to have, usually with flexible hours because most in the field are also musicians. You get to attend good concerts, and work in a musical environment.To expand on that point: Learn how to do live sound well! It's a very useful skill for a performer, but can also be a career in and of itself.

Quote from: Le.Tromboniste on Yesterday at 09:02 PMGet a job as a stagehand, learn about the technical side of the music industry. It's a pretty nice sideline (if freelancing) or day job (if for a company) to have, usually with flexible hours because most in the field are also musicians. You get to attend good concerts, and work in a musical environment.To expand on that point: Learn how to do live sound well! It's a very useful skill for a performer, but can also be a career in and of itself.