My lips are like a duck's bill

[imsevimse]

Hello

Sometimes we shape a picture that is just idiotic to others but to ourself it describes something very well. It describes something we want to achieve or it illustrates some feeling.

I've been working at home since the 17th of March and that has meant I have had three hours a day of less travel. A lot of that time has been used for practice. Like many others I have no rehearsals and no gigs with a single exception the 21th of May when I had a gig in a church.

All this spare time must be used for something, and I have nothing better to do but practice. This means I'm now in better shape than I've ever been and I feel I have evolved and become better player.

One picture that help me to illustrate my latest eureka-moment is to imagine my lips as a duck's bill.

Thinking of a duck's bill while playing may be nonsense to most. No human lips can take the shape of a duck's bill.

However the duck's billi image helps ME very much to form my emboushure. It activates the mouthcorners and push the lips forward. The feeling the picture brings is my lips are more centered and more pointed into the mouthpiece. When I think of this picture my playing becomes much more easy. I can then do things I couldn't do before.

I'm sure others too have pictures in their head to help them make things work. A duck's bill might not help others but it helps me a lot right now.

/Tom

[Doug Elliott]

That sort of thing depends entirely on what you're coming FROM. It would be a disaster for someone who is already too much in that direction.

[imsevimse]

That sort of thing depends entirely on what you're coming FROM. It would be a disaster for someone who is already too much in that direction.

Yes, one shoe does not fit all. My sound is open and clear. My lips are not too tight and I do not use much pressure. I'm coming from a smile-emboushure back in the 80-ies and I've spent many years correcting that. I have no smile today but the mouthcorners have been my problem before. Now they are fixed but as I've learned lately I gain to think of the corners and lips and make them point more forward.

I'm not the first to talk about making pictures like this about the lips but I may be the first who use a picture of a duck's bill. Another "duck's bill" picture is the Louis DiMaggio "ape-lips". I remember having seen an ape on a picture in the Louis DiMaggio book with its lips pointing forward. It is more close to what a duck's bill looks in comparison to what any human could do with their lips. Apes apparently have another set of muscles. That is a picture I think illustrates the same thing and that "ape-lips" picture gives me the same feeling.

/Tom

[timothy42b]

My picture of a duck's bill would be extreme rolled out lips and I don't think that's what you mean. Mental images are hard to communicate.

[imsevimse]

My picture of a duck's bill would be extreme rolled out lips and I don't think that's what you mean. Mental images are hard to communicate.

Yes they are, but still they are used by many educators to triy to lead a student in the right direction. I think the forward direction I do is a very slight change, since I can not see the change when I play in a mirror but I need the picture to be able to go where I want at will. Right now the picture immediately makes me do a change that have me play better.

A lot of teachers use mental pictures.

My Hungarian teacher described each staccato as to be a medicine ball. A Serbian teacher I had in the late 70-ies described my bad attacks as potatoes? Something we needed to work at. A song teacher I had talked about the sound should come from a place behind the nose. Another male song teacher said my song should come from the pelvis. One teacher said my throat should be open like downpipes when I played. A lot of things that is absolute nonsense but as pictures it can help a student in the right direction.

[Bach5G]

I find analogies are usually unhelpful.

[imsevimse]

I find analogies are usually unhelpful.

Yes, they can be until they mean something to you. The best pictures is the pictures you do yourself. One teacher said "I should play at the top of the egg". That expression has always been a mystery to me. I've later heard he said that to all his students. Today I have my personal thoughts about what he might have ment with that expression.

It means something to me today and is a picture I use when I start notes, when I practice long notes without tongue. That's the context where he used it. He was a very highly regarded teacher and bass trombonist at the Royal Opera in Stockholm. I only took a couple of lessons from him in the late 70-ies and I think he was retired by then. I'm happy I had the chance to meet him.

/Tom

[mrdeacon]

I find analogies are usually unhelpful.

Yes?

I find musical analogies to be incredibly helpful. Analogies for phrasing etc. have been some of my biggest lightbulb moments.

Analogies for chops are the ones that can be destructive if they don't work for you... but if you find an analogy that works for you run with it! I've got one or two weird ones that I do use for myself.

I mean... heck, even direct instruction can be harmful sometimes. I had a group of middle school students who all breathed through their noses. Not a single one would breathe through the corners. When I asked them why they did that it was because their elementary school teacher (who was a string player) complained about how they were too noisy when they breathed and told them to only breathe through their nose. Jesus. Half of them could barely make a sound because they weren't getting any air. That poor group of kids.

[Wilktone]

Analogies are great, when they fit the situation and have the desired effect. When they are taken literally, go too far in the the right direction, or just aren't having the desired effect they are terrible.

From a teaching standpoint my preference is to simply explain that I'm using an analogy before I give it and then see if it works. Sometimes simply telling a student how to play works better, sometimes it just confuses them more.

I can see how thinking of your lips like a duck's bill could work nicely for correcting a smile embouchure, as you mentioned Tom. I know that in my own case I tend to have the opposite problem, so I don't think I'll try your analogy out personally - but I'll keep that in mind the next time I work with a smile embouchure.

Thanks,

Dave

[Basbasun]

Yes Tom, I am sure your duck bill works fine for you,( you do sound very good). As you say, It might be a totally disaster for sombody else. I did wonder many years over the "top of the egg" analog, I know that many students did not get the "ho" idea, ( Funny since it is used by so many other teachers ,ho=who=breath attack) I have used analogys pretty much in my teaching, and noticed that what works for one student does not work for other. As David said, just telling how the student should play may just make the student more confused. That is the problem with methology.

[timothy42b]

Analogies are great, when they fit the situation and have the desired effect. When they are taken literally, go too far in the the right direction, or just aren't having the desired effect they are terrible.

I've often found analogies not useful for myself, so I've been skeptical.

But I've had to rethink that a bit in the past month, having read Talking to Strangers by Gladwell and Range by Epstein. The Range book especially had examples of where analogies led to advances, when faced with what he called "wild" problems, where the solution required creativity and a new approach.