Is slide cream truly better than slide oil?

[Elow]

I’ve heard that slide oil will eat away at the chrome plating and will ruin your slide after so many years and that i should switch the slide cream. I don’t know if any of that is true so i’m asking the collective mind of trombone players.

[harrisonreed]

Yamaha slide lubricant is what you want, though it is not a slide cream. Actual slide oil is for trumpet slides.

Superslick slide cream and trombotine are also great creams. Especially with superslick silicone treatment.

[Posaunus]

I’ve heard that slide oil will eat away at the chrome plating and will ruin your slide after so many years and that i should switch the slide cream. I don’t know if any of that is true so i’m asking the collective mind of trombone players.

Urban legend. Baseless. Ignore.

Use Yamaha Slide Lubricant or Slide-O-Mix Rapid Comfort or Ultra-Pure Slide Lube or other quality liquid slide lubricants – all very effective and harmless (but not "slide oil" – it doesn't really work very well, though it won't "ruin" your slide or eat away at chrome plating, it just gets "gummy after a while) – without trepidation.

See previous threads on TromboneChat.

Also see:

[BGuttman]

1. There are several kinds of slide oil. Paraffin oils (like valve oil or rotor oil), and a variety of silicone preparations.

2. Paraffin oils will not attack chrome plating. But they aren't great lubricants and you can wear off the plating on the inner slide if the alignment isn't perfect. The good part (if you can call it that) is that you can't overoil with a paraffin oil. It also won't last that long.

3. Silicone preparations (like Slide-O-Mix, Yamaha Oil, Rapid Comfort, etc.) can decompose and create a crusty film on the inner slide. This often takes a while and is a function of not cleaning the slide often enough. Once a week should be good enough to prevent the silicone buildup, and different preparations will build up at different rates. This crusty silicone can make the slide wear out fairly quickly since it's like having a layer of sand inside the outer slide.

4. Slide creams can be paraffinic or silicone. One important thing to remember is that they are often incompatible with the silicone slide oils. So if you are using Slide-O-Mix and want to convert to Trombotine you need to clean the inner slide and inside of the outer slide well. Back in the Bad Old Days we used Pond's Cold Cream as a slide cream. Some time in the 1970s, Pond's changed and didn't work as well as a slide lube. A number of preparations came out trying to be "Old Pond's". Superslick, Trombotine, and some generic stuff sold by a number of makers. Superslick and Trombotine each have devotees. For a while I used each of them, finally settling on Trombotine until I found some "new old stock" cold cream that was identical to "Old Pond's".

5. The key to using the silicone oils or the creams is that less is more. Too much will result in a gummy slide (and speed up the decomposition of the silicone oil).

t. We have slide cream advocates and silicone slide oil advocates here. Some find that different instruments work better with one or the other. There is really no way to tell which is best for you. I just recommend avoiding paraffinic slide oil unless you are the kind who slathers it on the slide.

[Posaunus]

3. Silicone preparations (like Slide-O-Mix, Yamaha Oil, Rapid Comfort, etc.) can decompose and create a crusty film on the inner slide. This often takes a while and is a function of not cleaning the slide often enough. Once a week should be good enough to prevent the silicone buildup, and different preparations will build up at different rates. This crusty silicone can make the slide wear out fairly quickly since it's like having a layer of sand inside the outer slide.

I'm old enpugh that I also started lubing my trombone slide with Pond's Cold Cream. But that's ancient history. Modern purpose-formulated trombone slide lubricants are much better than that.

I have been using liquid slide lubricants (Slide-O-Mix 2-part slide lubricant, Slide-O-Mix Rapid Comfort, Yamaha Slide Lubricant, Ultra-Pure slide lubricant) for years. Apparently they all contain silicone. In any case, I have NEVER observed the "crusty film" problem that Bruce Guttman reports, on my slide or on trombone colleagues' slides.

Perhaps this is because we practice regular and systematic trombone hygiene:

• Every few days (at least weekly) wipe off the lubricant from the outer slide with a soft cloth;
• Clean and dry interior of both the inner slide and outer slides with a swab –
... * HWP Brass-Saver (soft pull-through brush with a long plastic lead ribbon); or
... * cotton strip or cheesecloth on a cleaning rod; or
... * a Slide-O-Mix terry "towel sheath" for the cleaning rod;
... * (or all three);
• Store the clean slide "dead dry."

I expect that if you follow this protocol, you will not have slide lubrication problems.

[But you still may want to have a competent technician periodically check your slides for issues such as alignment, warping, and dents.]

[harrisonreed]

Yeah almost any slide lube will be the best you've ever used if you apply it to a properly cleaned slide.

[Bonearzt]

As mentioned, there is NO one "best" slide lube!!!

Having said that, in my experience, the liquid lubes tend to work better on newer slides with less mileage.
The creams tend to work better on experienced slides that have chrome loss on the stockings and/or corrosion on the inside of the outer tubes.


Just my demi-godlike, know-it-all opinion which, with $5 will get you a coffee at starbutts....


Eric

[ArbanRubank]

...
• Every few days (at least weekly) wipe off the lubricant from the outer slide with a soft cloth;
• Clean and dry interior of both the inner slide and outer slides with a swab –
... * HWP Brass-Saver (soft pull-through brush with a long plastic lead ribbon); or
... * cotton strip or cheesecloth on a cleaning rod; or
... * a Slide-O-Mix terry "towel sheath" for the cleaning rod;
... * (or all three);
• Store the clean slide "dead dry."

I expect that if you follow this protocol, you will not have slide lubrication problems.

[But you still may want to have a competent technician periodically check your slides for issues such as alignment, warping, and dents.]

Okay for your cleaning routine, but "dead dry" for extended storage? We were always taught in the army to give everything a light coat of oil to inhibit corrosion. Perhaps extended storage is where a quality slide oil would come into play? ...just discussing...

[Bonearzt]

...
• Every few days (at least weekly) wipe off the lubricant from the outer slide with a soft cloth;
• Clean and dry interior of both the inner slide and outer slides with a swab –
... * HWP Brass-Saver (soft pull-through brush with a long plastic lead ribbon); or
... * cotton strip or cheesecloth on a cleaning rod; or
... * a Slide-O-Mix terry "towel sheath" for the cleaning rod;
... * (or all three);
• Store the clean slide "dead dry."
I expect that if you follow this protocol, you will not have slide lubrication problems.
[But you still may want to have a competent technician periodically check your slides for issues such as alignment, warping, and dents.]

Okay for your cleaning routine, but "dead dry" for extended storage? We were always taught in the army to give everything a light coat of oil to inhibit corrosion. Perhaps extended storage is where a quality slide oil would come into play? ...just discussing...

I too don't like the idea of "dead dry". Brass WILL patina if not protected in some way and inhibit slide action.
I DO like the idea of a light coating of oil if the horn is going to be stored away.

Also, I don't feel the need to aggressively swab the outer tubes every time you relube it! Especially with the creams! The liquids, maybe as they do tend to leave a residue if they dry out.

But again, just my opinion.

Eric

[Posaunus]

Okay for your cleaning routine, but "dead dry" for extended storage? We were always taught in the army to give everything a light coat of oil to inhibit corrosion. Perhaps extended storage is where a quality slide oil would come into play? ...just discussing...

Thanks for the additional input, Tim and Eric.

Clarification: I did not intend to advocate "dead dry" for LONG-TERM storage. I rotate through my several trombones regularly, so none are "stored" for more than a week or two. I was "taught" by a technician that water is the enemy of brass, so dry is better until the next use. Perhaps for long storage the best solution would indeed be a lubricant on the slide surfaces, but no excess water.

It may be my imagination, but I think my (all older) slides work better after regular swabbing of the outer slides and then re-lubricating (either liquid or cream) before I play again. Re-lubing is small cost to pay – none of these lubricants are very expensive.

I have used the modern cream lubricants, but I just happen to prefer the convenience and performance of the liquid formulations, even for my old slides – but none of those slides exhibit any visible inner slide wear or plating loss. I guess I'm lucky!

[TromboneMonkey]

It's my understanding that the fundamental difference between Trombotine and other lubricants is that players who use Trombotine are objectively correct in their choice of slide lubricant and all of the other players are objectively wrong.



I'm joking, of course. I have found, however, that my body chemistry is such that many other lubricants break down very quickly and leave dry residue on my slides, where Trombotine does not. I had trouble for years with many lubricants and have never once had trouble with Trombotine. If you struggle with the chalky deposits, get rid of the Reka/Mix/Yamastuff and go back to the cream.