TromboneChat

Hey guys,

So I play normally an Edwards for symphonic and solo work, and I also have to play it for jazz. However, holding it up for that long is uncomfortable, and I've considered getting a single trigger bass trombone (which if y'all feel like, comment some ideas on single trigger basses I should get). The question is, should I get a single trigger bass, or get a light weight double trigger bass?

My 2 cents: I would suggest a smaller, lighter horn. You want something with projection and bite or bark to it. Get something with two valves--you'll need them for jazz and big and work, although George Roberts preferred a single all his life. Holton, Conn or one of the Kanstul horns should work well.

I second Ken's advice. An argument could be made that you need 2 triggers for big band more than orch.

Quote from: Ellrod on Jul 20, 2017, 10:05PMI second Ken's advice. An argument could be made that you need 2 triggers for big band more than orch.

Thirded, I've done both before and I think two valves is almost a necessity for big band - because a large amount of the music performed in that style today was written for someone with two valves. In the orchestra field that is absolutely not the case, where a large amount of the music was written for a single-valve bass or something even smaller than what we consider a bass today.

You really need 2 valves for big band, unless they only play old stuff. I'm not sure that other brands are going to be "lighter" than Edwards. Don't confuse a bright sound with lighter physical weight; they don't necessarily go hand in hand. You can get all kinds of different bell and slide configurations; some are lighter than others. I don't know which setup you have. You might consider some kind of thumb brace to make holding the horn more comfortable.

Quote from: kbiggs on Jul 20, 2017, 09:57PMHolton, Conn or one of the Kanstul horns should work well.
I'd add a King 6B to that list. Holton TR180's and TR181's both pretty light. Can't go wrong with a nice vintage Conn, I'd stay away from the new 62H's, and Kanstul 1662 or a 1662i are both very nice horns on the lighter spectrum.

You can also make a pretty light setup with a Shires with rotors or a Rath with rotors or Hagmanns, but I'm assuming that'd be out of your budget

I'm not sure how light the new Edwards rotor valve sections are but the old ones were essentially Getzen 1062 or 1052 valve sections made to made interchangable with Edwards. They were pretty heavy, like the stock Getzen bell sections.

Problem with King basses is they are ergonomically unfriendly to most players. If you're having pain from holding up the horn, King is probably not going to be your friend.

Quote from: Blowero on Yesterday at 12:53 AMProblem with King basses is they are ergonomically unfriendly to most players. If you're having pain from holding up the horn, King is probably not going to be your friend.
That's true! OP said jazz I thought King 6B

I've heard so many horns sound fantastic in big band settings. Various Edwards, Shires and Rath. Conn 62H, 72H, and 70H, Holton 180 and 181, King 6B, Kanstul 1662. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many more.

I play a Duo Gravis for big band work because it makes it easy to make the sounds I want in that setting. As standard they aren't the most ergonomic horns but mine has been modified by Michael Rath to put the bell brace behind the thumb and split the valve linkage so it sits in the hand like any other bass.

Who's sound do you like most for jazz bass? When you've figured that out you'll probably have a better idea of where to look in terms of equipment.

Quote from: Catastrophone on Yesterday at 01:38 AMI play a Duo Gravis for big band work because it makes it easy to make the sounds I want in that setting. As standard they aren't the most ergonomic horns but mine has been modified by Michael Rath to put the bell brace behind the thumb and split the valve linkage so it sits in the hand like any other bass.
ooooh could you post pictures?

Dont confuse physical weight with poor balance.
You can make the instrument "feel" lighter by adding weight to make it balance better. I would suggest experimenting with how the instrument balances or try adding a hand brace to shift the weight to a different set of muscles.

100% agree with the suggestions with the lighter double valve bass suggestion.  Especially with the King 6B Duo Gravis!   Sure the trigger arrangement is odd but the sound it produces reminds me why I've been a fan of King trombones and dependent basses for years!  There are plenty of good players who use them like Alan Raph.  Also, Mr. Kraft and Ormsby who are members on this site! Good luck on your search!  

I was playing an Edwards a couple of weeks ago.  It seemed pretty light for a double rotor bass.  I only had my XO brass bass to compare it to at the time and the Edwards was noticeably lighter.

Have you thought of dong a little weight training to build your trapezoids, deltoids and supraspinatus?  A small set of dumbbells will cost a lot less than a new horn.

My advice will be contradictory for the sake of it. And also because it's what I did.

Get a bass that fits with as many bands as possible that you're in. Something that you really enjoy playing and something that is the sound that you want, not just that fits. Sound first. If it's not ergonomically fit for you try to make it that way. I've made funky weights to place in different areas and even one that is held way out over my right shoulder to pivot the horn to sit perfectly in my hand. For my main bass horn all I did was change my grip, adjusted the triggers, and bought several hand rests to find the right one. All in all I broke even on the ones I sold or close. And I can hold my bass all night if I need to ( not so much now that I only play it a few months out of the year ).

I was in the same predicament earlier this month where I needed a jazzy bass with two triggers. I ended up purchasing a silver sonic duo gravis which is being delivered today. I was playing a Williams bass and more recently an Elkhart 73H, but still I wanted something with a little more edge than the 73H.

The Yamaha ybl-620G hasn't been mentioned. Works very well in a big band with a relatively light sound. 2 valves. And not very expensive at about €3300 new.

Yes Duo Gravis is a good choice, nice bite, a good horn I do hate the way it is made with the bar on the wrong side of the trigger, that can be fixed.
When I play double trigger (I have 4 singel trigger basses) I play Kanstul dependant, very light for a double bass, also a good bite.

Speaking of weird thumb positions the older Holton 180 thumb bar. Magic Bar? right? That is awkward, but damn does that bass sound and feel good!

Quote from: Full Pedal Trombonist on Yesterday at 02:46 PMSpeaking of weird thumb positions the older Holton 180 thumb bar. Magic Bar? right? That is awkward, but damn does that bass sound and feel good!
During MSBOA in my junior year, I had to borrow the school's (where MSBOA was at) bass which was a Holton TR-180.  It had the magic bar and it took me a while to figure out how to figure out its odd function (man, that was an awkward moment.)  As of why I had to use it, that's a story for another time.

Quote from: seanschramm on Jul 20, 2017, 09:30PMSo I play normally an Edwards for symphonic and solo work, and I also have to play it for jazz. However, holding it up for that long is uncomfortable...
I'd like to ask, how does it sound for the part?

Quote from: mr.deacon on Yesterday at 02:20 AMooooh could you post pictures?
Here you go! I've not tried to post pictures here before so I hope it works.

Edit: It didn't work. Tried using photobucket which appears to have been a mistake.  I'll have another go later.

Success!

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Success!

2017-07-22 10.39.11
2017-07-22 10.37.40
2017-07-22 10.38.31