TromboneChat

So I was chowing down on a hot dog at the Cookout yesterday. For some reason, all the Cookout restaurants around here feel the need to blast the Christian Rock channel from Sirius radio at you while you are loading up on salt and fat. Putting aside any discussion about religious beliefs, is there any music on the planet that is worse than this stuff? It all sounds the same and it is all incredibly cheesy.

That is my rant for the day. Thank you.

You post is entitled "Is there anything worse than 'Christian Rock?'" and you expect people to avoid discussion of religious beliefs, when those beliefs are intertwined in the music itself? Good luck.

I have done several recording sessions of that stuff and I agree.

But a lot of effort and money goes into them and they're well produced.

I think free jazz can be worse. A LOT worse.

Peter Brötzmann or Cecil Taylor. Frankly, I would rather listen to them than country-oriented, bland and formulaic "Christian" Rock (and yes, I think you can discuss it on purely musical grounds) . . but not over hot dogs. Gad, I'd down my food in record time.

I've heard you sing.

Nuff said.

Baby Shark. Bagpipes.

I remember a Saturday Night Live skit in which the musical guest, Paul Simon, had died and was on an elevator with the devil. Muzak versions of his songs were playing in the background. After some small talk, he asked the devil when they were going to arrive in Hell. The devil made an evil grin and said "You are already here".

Even having lived 20 years in Texas, twangy bluegrass vocals would make me run for a to-go box. A buddy of mine plays in a progressive goth-metal band with a lead singer who sounds like he is gargling battery acid. I appreciate the talent and creativity going on in the backing band, but I could not eat listening to those vocals.

sungfw wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:37 pm I've heard you sing.

Nuff said.

You never heard me sing as I only do it in the car. I know all the lyrics to most Dire Straights songs.

Kingfan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:32 pm Bagpipes.

Bagpipes May be worse. Those guys only know 2 songs. Amazing Grace and Scotland the Brave.

Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:03 pm

Kingfan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:32 pm Bagpipes.

Bagpipes May be worse. Those guys only know 2 songs. Amazing Grace and Scotland the Brave.

Don't forget "Garry Owen".

You folks mean Highland Pipes. Uilliann Pipes and Northumbrian Pipes are a gas.

(Uilliann)
(Northumbrian Pipes)

My wife doesn't understand that it isn't really the lyrics that make me run away whenever she puts the Christian rock music on. I mean, sometimes, but there are some GREAT tunes (that are not Christian rock) that have some of the dumbest lyrics you've ever heard. It's just something about the canned sounding, fake backgrounds and fake instruments combined with unending major chords resolving into other, nearly identical major chords... With overly fake emotional, lyrics that contradict the blatantly mercenary fiscal conditions behind the creation of any number of these tunes.

Gary wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:01 pm You folks mean Highland Pipes. Uilliann Pipes and Northumbrian Pipes are a gas.

(Uilliann)
(Northumbrian Pipes)

Never heard, or heard of, those other two kinds. I like them! Thanks for educating me.

You bet.
Uilliann Pipes are Irish, Northumbrian Pipes are from Northern England.
Highland (Scottish) Pipes have the basic drone sounded by blowing into the instrument while the sound on the other two is produced by pumping a bellows with the arm.

The Italians also have bagpipes – folk instruments called "zampogna" which have numerous configurations depending on their region of origin. The bags seem to be typically made of an entire goat hide. The zampogna is often accompanied by a double-reed shawm-like instrument called a "piffero." The sound is not particularly pleasant to my ears, even though I am part Italian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zampogna

I was leaned on to direct a praise and worship band sometime back. Not my thing, but they needed it done, and I was available.

I spent a huge amount of effort trying to find the better music in that genre. We had subscriptions to CCLI, maybe some others I've forgotten. Most of that music is really really bad, even if you don't listen to the lyrics. (My tradition would quarrel with the theology, but that's not something I get too excited about. Don't tell my church.)

However. There was a segment of that congregation that the music really moved. I could see it affecting them, bad as it was (and sometimes our execution wasn't that great either.) So I guess some things you play because the audience wants and appreciates it. It would have been even better if paid, but...................

Yes, yes there is.

MoominDave wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:00 am Yes, yes there is.

Oh man, you got me there. Who came up with that one?

The composer surveyed people to find the musical elements people found most annoying, then put them all together in one song.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Unwanted_Song

I must confess that I've listened all the way through more than once...

My Pal Foot, Foot - the Shaggs

Apropos of nothing,,

Somehow music that is created to be bad in the first place doesn't seem as bad as music that is just bad, like Christian Rock.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:06 pm Somehow music that is created to be bad in the first place doesn't seem as bad as music that is just bad, like Christian Rock.

- PDQ Bach comes to mind.

Gary wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:05 pm - PDQ Bach comes to mind.

Many years ago I played a gig with him that was supposed to be his own serious compositions. Not impressed, I thought it was all pretty bad.

Peter Schickele. Good commercial arranger, though.

I conducted a piece for an audience on the Mississippi coast, even preceding it with an oral presentation, to help them get it. Flew completely over their heads.

I began playing Christian rock in the early 80s - at about the time of Amy Grant’s El Shaddai album. In my area, her music was roundly condemned simply for not being southern Gospel quartet music. We put together a band of guys who had played in blues bands, in The Gregg Allman Band, with Jaimoe, etc. We tried to be creative and bring musicality to the new music form, but were roundly condemned by the established church people. I think that attitude is what forced Christian rock into a bland sameness.

I found one of our songs online if you’d like to hear what was so objectionable in 1985.
http://paxety.com/Audio/Just.mp3

Gary wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:01 pm You folks mean Highland Pipes. Uilliann Pipes and Northumbrian Pipes are a gas.

(Uilliann)
(Northumbrian Pipes)

Worth a listen.
--Andy in OKC

SimmonsTrombone wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:56 am I began playing Christian rock in the early 80s - at about the time of Amy Grant’s El Shaddai album. In my area, her music was roundly condemned simply for not being southern Gospel quartet music. We put together a band of guys who had played in blues bands, in The Gregg Allman Band, with Jaimoe, etc. We tried to be creative and bring musicality to the new music form, but were roundly condemned by the established church people. I think that attitude is what forced Christian rock into a bland sameness.

I found one of our songs online if you’d like to hear what was so objectionable in 1985.
http://paxety.com/Audio/Just.mp3

I used to listen to Amy Grant in her Christian Music phase and really enjoyed her. I didn't necessarily agree with all the lyrics but enjoyed it on musical terms. The criticism she got when she went more secular was dumb.

Amy Grant was in my freshman class at Furman in 1978-79. She stayed one year before moving off to Nashville to become famous. I only heard her sing once, but she was great.

I'm certainly not a fan of this genre, but was just introduced today to a recording of Amy Grant's "Better Than A Hallelujah." Perhaps not your cup of tea, but (perhaps to my surprise) I thought it was pretty good.

Christian rock is constrained by two things in order to be commercially viable (yes, like everything else it does come down to money) 1. Maintaining mainstream accessibility 2. easy reproduction by church groups

Producers of Christian rock tend to be much less risk averse than even mainstream producers as their margin for error tends to be smaller due to a smaller overall market for it. It also exists with the goal that church worship teams cover it on Sundays as that plays a large part of driving people to buy the music.

As a result it generally sticks to simple structure and chords and closely adheres to prevailing trends in generic pop music. The same artist can put out an acoustic rock influenced album with tinges of Mumford and Sons and then the very next album be laying tracks over EDM beats.

Those that tolerate generic pop music generally don't have much issue with the quality of Christian rock, but if you strive for more inventiveness, originality, and more complexity, you won't find it there.

I played that for two summers as a staff musician at a resort. Some of it is actually surprisingly well done. Granted, the really good stuff is basically straight up copies... I recall one that was basically Pirates of the Carribean but about the book of Revelation. I'm frankly a little surprised some of that flies under the radar given how much litigation there is for much less obvious infringement these days. There's some other stuff that is just downright square or obviously written by a guitarist for whom a 2 octave jump is as easy as a jump of a perfect fourth. I've played quite a bit of secular rock or similar idioms though and I've experienced plenty of "meh" quality gigs there too. Check deposits the same either way for me

Maybe the reason it flies under the radar is that, from a musical standpoint, nobody cares.

Gary wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:25 pm Maybe the reason it flies under the radar is that, from a musical standpoint, nobody cares.

Nobodu caring musically is a lot different than the right lawyer caring unfortunately lol

A lot of pretentious "Avant Garde" nonsense is arguably worse than Christian rock, especially the trombone stuff.

It's similar to Christian rock. The bad examples from it are written by people who don't actually know how to compose, and there are people nodding and humming and hawing, saying that it's really good.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:08 pm A lot of pretentious . . nonsense is arguably worse than Christian rock ..
The bad examples from it are written by people who don't actually know how to compose, and there are people nodding and humming and hawing, saying that it's really good.

And that statement assumes a lot and is pretty pretentious, in itself.
"There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind."
Duke Ellington

Gary wrote: ↑Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:08 am

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:08 pm A lot of pretentious . . nonsense is arguably worse than Christian rock ..
The bad examples from it are written by people who don't actually know how to compose, and there are people nodding and humming and hawing, saying that it's really good.

And that statement assumes a lot and is pretty pretentious, in itself.
"There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind."
Duke Ellington

But sometimes there is no music at all. The emperor has no clothes.

FullPedalTrombonist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:38 pm

Fullpedal that was actually a really good video. He did a really good breakdown of his thoughts. Thanks for posting that!

Hearing you parents fight then have makeup sex can be pretty bad.

Hearing your parents fight while having normal sex can be worse.

I have no comment about Christian Rock as music other than I don't listen to it. But, Christian Rock is what led to the establishment of Praise Bands in lots and lots of churches and I regard that as a good thing, as long as I don't have to go to church and listen to them that is,

I am and have been primarily a guitarist. And in the last twenty years or so (I can't keep track of years anymore) a good portion of the kids I have given guitar lessons to in my community were motivated to do so by the opportunity to play in a band, an opportunity that presented itself because the church their parents made them go to decided to start up a praise band. I don't care who starts the band or even, necessarily, why. Kids getting in a band and learning to sing and play instruments is a good thing. Period.

And not just kids, plenty of adults have gotten, and are getting, their "band" experience because of the opportunity presented to them when their church decided to start up a praise band. It doesn't matter how good the music is, what matters is they get to make it.

Additionally, there is no doubt that the advent of Praise Bands has been an economic boon to the music business... guitars, drums, mics, sound systems (some of them flabbergastingly nice). (Bob Taylor once joked that Praise Bands helped him keep the doors open... he may not have been joking. Bluegrass has kept Martin alive.)

I don't know if brass instruments have made their way into the Praise Band circle, but if not, it would be great if they could. Brass could use the business and it would fire up a few more kids into lessons.

This is a genre all its own, in case you've never heard it:


"united house of prayer shout bands "

Wycliffe's got nothing on some of these guys you never heard of.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:33 pm This is a genre all its own, in case you've never heard it:

"united house of prayer shout bands "

There was an excellent presentation on this at last summer's ITF. I had never heard of it until then.

--Andy in OKC

PaulT wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:24 pm

I am and have been primarily a guitarist. And in the last twenty years or so (I can't keep track of years anymore) a good portion of the kids I have given guitar lessons to in my community were motivated to do so by the opportunity to play in a band, an opportunity that presented itself because the church their parents made them go to decided to start up a praise band. I don't care who starts the band or even, necessarily, why. Kids getting in a band and learning to sing and play instruments is a good thing. Period.

While mine is a traditional liturgical church, some years back a group guitar class was offered after the service, and to my surprise a couple dozen people came out of the woodwork, people who'd always wanted to learn guitar. Most were adults of various ages, a few young people but not many.

I helped the instructor by tuning all the guitars. This task was beyond 99% of them and the resulting cacophony was painful otherwise.

Like adults who start piano lessons, they gradually realized it was harder than it looked, and it eventually died, but it was an interesting experiment. A couple of the younger ones eventually played in a contemporary service.

Yes, Christian Rap.

The electronic Banda music that's ubiquitous here in New Mexico has to be in the running. The blaring synthesized horns, with their smack-you-in-the-face attacks and vibrato that's twice as wide as anything humanly possible, just make my ears bleed. I feel like I'm going to have a seizure every time I hear it.

biggiesmalls wrote: ↑Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:37 pm The electronic Banda music that's ubiquitous here in New Mexico has to be in the running. The blaring synthesized horns, with their smack-you-in-the-face attacks and vibrato that's twice as wide as anything humanly possible, just make my ears bleed. I feel like I'm going to have a seizure every time I hear it.

Chuck,

Please wear earplugs (is there an N-95 version?) as well as a face mask, hand sanitizer, and gloves.

Better safe than sorry these days!

Posaunus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:28 pm

Chuck,

Please wear earplugs (is there an N-95 version?) as well as a face mask, hand sanitizer, and gloves.

Better safe than sorry these days!

Thanks Dave!

At least COVID-19 will eventually subside, whereas electronic Banda in Mexico Nuevo is here to stay. At least earplugs aren't in short supply...

11561man wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:07 am Yes, Christian Rap.

I was in a big band that backed one up last fall. Strange for sure, but I kinda liked it.

biggiesmalls wrote: ↑Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:37 pm The electronic Banda music that's ubiquitous here in New Mexico has to be in the running. The blaring synthesized horns, with their smack-you-in-the-face attacks and vibrato that's twice as wide as anything humanly possible, just make my ears bleed. I feel like I'm going to have a seizure every time I hear it.

Lol. I know the pain you speak of all too well.

There's no version of the Beatles tune "obla-di, obla-da" like the banda version.