TromboneChat

Hello everyone;

Is there a difference between a Faxx and Bach mouthpieces about the sounds that’s it’s produces? Or is the prices?

Thanks for your answers!!!

Faxx are digital copies of Bach Mount Vernon mouthpieces. They are sold at a lower price point. They may work great for you or not. But at least you won't break the bank to try a different size in Faxx.

Thanks for your answers. I all ready bought a Faxx mp and is identical to the Bach. I was curious that maybe the silver plating or the material that is made is the difference for the prices.

Thanks again!!!

IMHO, for what they are, Bach mouthpieces are overpriced. They have made very little change to their standard mouthpiece catalog in decades. There is no development cost to recoup. Like everything "Bach" you get less bang for your buck.

Yamaha mouthpieces are quite nice, and cost around $45, compared to $75 for a standard Bach mouthpiece.

Faxx mouthpieces are made in Germany by Lausmann on CNC lathes, and from what I have heard, the original mouthpieces they offer were based on a set of Mt. Vernon MPCs given to someone by Vincent Bach when they helped move the factory after the company was sold to Selmer. I don't know how much of the story is real, but they are very good mouthpieces, and I have used a Faxx 1 1/2G for years with no sign of the silver plate fading.

This is a bit on the company: https://www.namm.org/library/oral-histo ... f-lausmann

They pretty much make mouthpieces and other parts for brass companies around the world.

Does anyone know who actually owns the Faxx name? Is it American Way Marketing?

Whoever is in charge, they run a very streamlined operation. They only make a few sizes for each instrument, which simplifies almost every stage of manufacturing and distribution. They don't seem to do much advertising.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:11 am IMHO, for what they are, Bach mouthpieces are overpriced. They have made very little change to their standard mouthpiece catalog in decades. There is no development cost to recoup.

Faxx's development costs are even lower...

I wonder if you could go Faxx one better? Make the best darned 6.5AL in the world and nothing else. A small shop dedicated to producing exactly one product of highest quality. No down time to change over to another size. Production only stops for maintenance and to make adjustments when the dimensions get close to the edge of your tolerance.

Faxx is great! Their 7C was my gateway into that realm.

While I wish they had a cheap 6.75 for all to try etc. there is something nice about having a company that sticks to the fundamentals.

And I assume their customers are primarily early mouthpiece explorers - "bought a small bore, need a first mouthpiece" and similar - such players probably SHOULDN'T be getting into the weeds of 7C vs 6.75. Stick to big or small, which one is better?! Only fine tune from there if needed ...

mwpfoot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:41 am Faxx is great! Their 7C was my gateway into that realm.

While I wish they had a cheap 6.75 for all to try etc. there is something nice about a company that sticks to the fundamentals.

And I assume their customers are primarily early mouthpiece explorers - "bought a small bore, need a first mouthpiece" and similar - such players probably SHOULDN'T be getting into the weeds of 7C vs 6.75. Stick to big or small, which one is better?! Only fine tune from there if needed ...

I'm still stuck in those weeds. The 11C, 7C, and 6 3/4C are SO CLOSE, but so far apparently. Ferguson music now makes an 11C type, but it's actually a full 25.00mm. I haven't had much time on it, but it is nice.

mwpfoot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:41 am Faxx is great! Their 7C was my gateway into that realm.

While I wish they had a cheap 6.75 for all to try etc. there is something nice about having a company that sticks to the fundamentals.

I believe that Wessex makes (or at least sells) an excellent knock-off 6¾C mouthpiece. I acquired one a year or two ago, and it plays great.

Bach essentially prints money with their brand recognition. Some of the stock Bach mouthpieces are awesome, the majority fall into the "needs improvement" category.

Think of Faxx as addressing the mulligans Bach should have taken on their updated CNC catalogue. The Faxx 1-1/2G especially is, in my opinion, a superior mouthpiece to the current Bach offering. It is a copy of a MV 1-1/2G, on the smaller side of those pieces.

Yamaha mouthpieces are quite nice, and cost around $45, compared to $75 for a standard Bach mouthpiece.

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I agree. I think Yamaha makes the bet "off the rack" mouthpieces.

Had really good luck on the Faxx and I've found them new online for 29.99

Speaking of Faxx, does anybody know if the new Blessing line of mouthpieces is affiliated with them? Their description of having been CNC-machined in Germany sounds oddly like Faxx, but it's interesting they added 11C and 51D not available from Faxx.
blessingbrass.com/mouthpieces/

Bonehead wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:08 am Speaking of Faxx, does anybody know if the new Blessing line of mouthpieces is affiliated with them? Their description of having been CNC-machined in Germany sounds oddly like Faxx, but it's interesting they added 11C and 51D not available from Faxx.
blessingbrass.com/mouthpieces/

Faxx currently has a 51D-S and 51D-L. I don't see an 11C though.

However, there is pretty much one company in Germany that does lots of contract mouthpiece making, so chances are they are the same.

No difference in what counts, lip vibration and sound production.

jph wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:27 am No difference in what counts, lip vibration and sound production.

This is false.

Freebuzz, then buzz on the mouthpiece. Different sensations, different sounds. The world is not so linear as to allow for superposition or separability of player, equipment, and sound: they are all coupled.

Equipment matters. At least, it will matter until freebuzzing choirs supplant brass players (I hope I didn't just give any avant-garde composers any ideas).

Huh?

I just bought a Faxx 6 1/2 al and the cup seems a bit deeper than my old Bach 6 1/2 al
I'm pretty sure my Bach is from the 60s

cb56 wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 5:10 pm I just bought a Faxx 6 1/2 al and the cup seems a bit deeper than my old Bach 6 1/2 al
I'm pretty sure my Bach is from the 60s

Perhaps due to Bach's notorious variability in mouthpiece manufacture. Faxx are reputed to be much more consistent; allegedly clones of a particular Bach Mt Vernon 6-1/2AL

All of the Faxx mouthpiees I've measured are smaller than the measurements I associate with those same Bach numbers.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 8:03 pm All of the Faxx mouthpiees I've measured are smaller than the measurements I associate with those same Bach numbers.

Thanks Doug.
I trust your measurements.

Doug Elliott wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 8:03 pm All of the Faxx mouthpieces I've measured are smaller than the measurements I associate with those same Bach numbers.

Sample size of 1 Faxx and 1 Bach 5G of each, this was my experience as well. I kept the Bach. (Besides feeling larger in cup diameter, it also had a more interesting sound to me.)

How thick is silver plating? I suppose Faxx scanned a plated Bach mouthpiece, recreated that in brass, then silverplated the result.

I think the usual silverplate by most companies is about half a thousandth of an inch (.0005)
Not nearly enough to account for much.

The story I heard (and I can’t remember where I heard it) was that a manager or employee was given an incomplete proof set of Mount Vernon mouthpieces when Bach left Mount Vernon. Those mouthpieces were used to manufacture production FAXX mouthpieces on contract(s). Hence, there is no 11C.

My professor at University of Tulsa was a graduate of Northwestern and often in contact with Renold Schilke. The professor or perhaps Schilke’s product literature at the time claimed better accuracy and less variation due to Schilke’s process of never re-sharpening tools. One would think that a proof set would have been made from tools that had not been re-sharpened or not already used for mass production. If the tool was re-sharpened, I would expect the inner mouthpiece dimensions to be smaller.

Perhaps Doug can enlighten me as to whether this is wrong headed thinking, and/or if technology advancement has changed the tools used to cut mouthpiece bowls.

Wow. I guess all we can say for sure is buying a mouthpiece sure is a crap shoot.
I guess for someone at my level (mediocre) the answer is just stick one in the horn and learn to play on it. To think I played on a 12c for decades just because that's all I had and achieved some success at it. I really didn't know there was anything else until I got to college.

cb56 wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 9:33 am Wow. I guess all we can say for sure is buying a mouthpiece sure is a crap shoot.
I guess for someone at my level (mediocre) the answer is just stick one in the horn and learn to play on it. To think I played on a 12c for decades just because that's all I had and achieved some success at it. I really didn't know there was anything else until I got to college.

I have been playing a while. I am still learning and I think I am still getting better. I played a Schilke 47 for 30 years. It is a great mouthpiece. I figured out that I needed more crown on the rim and switched to a Bach 11C and later a good Bach Mount Vernon 11C that was given to me. I have another MV 11C that is not so great.

There isn’t anything wrong with a 12C. A lot of jazz
Players used it or intentionally or unintentionally altered but still close versions of it. It can work for other genres as well. Ian McDougall was a Yamaha Artist who played the YSL-697Z. He said, essentially, “Pick one, stick with it, and BLOW. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

I agree nothing wrong with 12c on the right horn. I'm playing medium bore .522 I like my 7c that I used to use on a king 3b years ago but I feel it's a bit on the small size for my 78h and maybe too small for my face.
Maybe I should just get smaller horn and go back to a 7c. I sure liked 78h though

This is hijacking a thread. Crisafulli used to be in the principal in Chicago Symphony in 1955. He forced all his students to use a Schilke 47 until the student could play high e’s well. Many were probably playing large bore instruments. A Conn 88H or Bach 42 can be played just fine with a Schilke 47. And sound good. So a 12C will work on your 0.522 bore horn

A Bach 12C is 0.019 inches smaller in diameter than Schilke 47 according to mouthpiece express specifications. Diameter depends on where it is measured, too. Going up to. 5G, 6 1/2AL, or Schilke 51D are a little bigger. You can look at the mouthpiece express site and do the math.

I tried some 12C mouthpieces. They always felt too small on my face. A Faxx 7C or 6 1/2AL will drive the 78H just fine. The newer Bach mouthpieces have less variation than the old ones. They’re more expensive than FAXX. Doug Elliott will take a look at your embouchure on Skype and sell you one of his. Good luck.

FYI: Before I got my last teacher who switched me to the Schilke 47, I was playing on a Bach 3G on a 78H. It sounded great but I didn’t have the embouchure for it. Then I switched to Crisafulli’s Schilke 47. I now play a 79H with a Mount Vernon 11C. It fills the horn great. Above high Bb it may get a little bright. But I never see that high of a note on that horn. And at the volume dynamics that conductors usually demand, it isn’t noticed.

I've done Skype with Doug, just can't afford one of his mouthpieces. I have a newer bach 7c a new faxx 6 1/2al and an old abused Bach 6 1/2al.
Besides inner rim measurement the 6 1/2 al (both versions) have a wider throat and backbore than the 7c. Will the 7c work? Sure. But is it optimal for the .522? Not so sure.

Everything makes a difference. Maybe some horns just might not like a mouthpiece. I have seen a lot of Schilke mouthpieces in Bachs and Conns. And quite of few Bachs in Conns and Holtons. Al Kay and Ian McDougall were both good with Bach 12C, Bach 11C, and SCHILKE 47 in a Yamaha 697Z. It is what works for you in the 78H. Any of the mouthpieces you have will drive your 78H just fine. Stick with one for 60-90 days and then re-assess.

If a 7C feels good, just stick with it. You will learn to make as good or better sound with it as anything else. It takes time. The second trombone player liked a 12C that I gave him. He is starting to really come around with very nice and rich bass staff notes. That took a few years.