TromboneChat

In another thread someone asked about buzzing routines, which do people use, and many of the responses ended up being arguments for and against buzzing. Yes, I am aware that this topic has been, and will continue to be hotly debated as long as we still use mouthpieces.

However, there are two aspects to buzzing that I’ve been thinking about, which I haven’t seen in the debates.

One is, “How are we buzzing?” By that I mean that two people could do the same buzzing exercises or routines and have different results based on how they buzz. Perhaps one uses too much pressure or tries to get a certain quality of sound that ends up making the buzzing counter productive. That’s just one simple example and something that would need to be discussed live rather than through a forum.

Here’s another idea that I’ve been pondering. One of the arguments against buzzing is that it’s not close enough to playing the actual instrument so it’s at the very least, a waste of valuable practice time and at worse, potentially damaging. But maybe it’s that buzzing is different, yet similar enough to real playing that can be beneficial.

More recent research of how we learn shows that a certain degree of variety in repetitive practice can enhance long term learning retention and acquisition of motor skills. This is sometimes called interleaved practice. Studies have compared batting practice for baseball players. They compared hitters who were pitched let’s say 50 fast balls, 50 curveballs and then 50 sliders, to others, who were pitched 10 of each and cycling through so both groups had the same number of chances to practice. The ones who had the variety improved better over the long term. One of the explanations for this is that in a real game, a player doesn’t get 49 practice pitches before the one that really counts. By interleaving practice, the player not only practices the necessary skills but also calling up the pattern for different pitches more quickly.

How does that relate to buzzing? Perhaps one of the benefits of buzzing could be the shift from buzzing to playing the instrument because the player is forced to reestablish her/his embouchure each time and that, over time, reinforces the motor skills needed for real playing. It could also be detrimental in that if the player has buzzed in a way that is too dissimilar to actual playing or hasn’t established a proper embouchure, their learning process has too much variety making the embouchure unstable.

Well if you’ve made this far, I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Best to all, John

If I get stuck on something, I will usually buzz it and then it works. For me, that's enough for me to recommend buzzing. I don't do that much and I don't think about it very hard.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:55 am If I get stuck on something, I will usually buzz it and then it works. For me, that's enough for me to recommend buzzing. I don't do that much and I don't think about it very hard.

I've found that flutter tonguing through a particular passage that's giving me trouble helps me in the same way. On the horn, of course

I use buzzing the same way athletes use the gym. They aren’t doing push-ups on the field, but the time spent at the gym sure makes them better at their sport. I almost never buzz music or buzz in the middle of a practice session, but the buzzing i do is an important part of developing my embouchure.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:22 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:55 am If I get stuck on something, I will usually buzz it and then it works. For me, that's enough for me to recommend buzzing. I don't do that much and I don't think about it very hard.

I've found that flutter tonguing through a particular passage that's giving me trouble helps me in the same way. On the horn, of course

So, ridicule it if you don't agree with it. At least you're consistent.

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:55 am If I get stuck on something, I will usually buzz it and then it works. For me, that's enough for me to recommend buzzing. I don't do that much and I don't think about it very hard.

That is exactly what I do.

Besides my morning routin (singing, freebuzzing, mpc buzzing and playing the same tune on the horn) I also do practise cirkular brething on freebuzzing.

Basbasun wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:25 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:55 am If I get stuck on something, I will usually buzz it and then it works. For me, that's enough for me to recommend buzzing. I don't do that much and I don't think about it very hard.

That is exactly what I do.

Besides my morning routin (singing, freebuzzing, mpc buzzing and playing the same tune on the horn) I also do practise cirkular brething on freebuzzing.

Circular breathing on freebuzzing is impressive especially in the valve register.

/Tom

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:22 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:55 am If I get stuck on something, I will usually buzz it and then it works. For me, that's enough for me to recommend buzzing. I don't do that much and I don't think about it very hard.

I've found that flutter tonguing through a particular passage that's giving me trouble helps me in the same way. On the horn, of course

Fluttertonguing helps, but not in the same way. For me anyway.

Oh, that's a serious technique? Then I apologize if that's the case. I thought he was mocking the idea.

norbie2018 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:28 am Oh, that's a serious technique? Then I apologize if that's the case. I thought he was mocking the idea.

Flutter tonguing forces you to keep moving your air.

"How does that relate to buzzing? Perhaps one of the benefits of buzzing could be the shift from buzzing to playing the instrument because the player is forced to reestablish her/his embouchure each time and that, over time, reinforces the motor skills needed for real playing. It could also be detrimental in that if the player has buzzed in a way that is too dissimilar to actual playing or hasn’t established a proper embouchure, their learning process has too much variety making the embouchure unstable."

That sounds very much possible. Free buzz buzzing and mpc buzzing does not allways do anything good for everybody.
Sometimes a buzzer buzz just because their teacher told the buzzer to do so, he/she never thought about it. And when stopping some playing problem dissapear. For some others it goes the oposite way. The thing is that as the OP said, buzzing can be done in many different ways, to much lipcompression, to little, to nasty sound, to airy sound.
Someone said you can´t do anything bad with the mouthpiece, meaning mpc buzzing. I say yes you can.
The "right way to buzz" can not be taught on the net, sometimes it is very easy to find a good way, sometimes it is very difficult. Like playing. Playing trombone can be done many different ways, some ways are difficult, some are easy. What is easy for you might not work for your student. To solve a problem with a difficult passage with flutter tongue must be extremely rare, never heard about it before. Flutter tonngue can be very good to find how to buzz though.

norbie2018 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:28 am Oh, that's a serious technique? Then I apologize if that's the case. I thought he was mocking the idea.

I forgive you

I have gone through a multitude of emotions regarding buzzing, but after I started working an 8-5 job and practice time is precious, I’ve been buzzing significantly more. (What’s the best way to kill travel time on the way to work?). With that in mind, I personally buzz about 30-45 minutes a day, sometimes upwards on an hour, BUT when it comes to students, I take the same approach as burgerbob. High school and middle school aged kids have a much harder time understanding what is considered efficient and effective buzzing.

There have been times when Buzzing has helped me and times when it has messed me up. I do just a little bit of free buzzing now to help me find the structure in my embouchure and identify which muscles should be doing the work. I use mouthpiece buzzing as a last resort If there is a passage that’s giving me trouble or If something doesn’t feel right on the horn. If I’m stiff in the morning and having trouble getting warmed up quickly I will buzz.

I can’t say I’ve ever felt it messed me up.

I usually like to start a session with a bit of free buzzing followed by some mpc buzzing.

I almost never buzz, except to occasionally loosen up my chops when they seem to be tight. Buzzing has always been detrimental to me. It makes me choke my throat. I want to spend my time practicing the techniques I use to play successfully, not things that don't help me.

What are you trying to accomplish by buzzing?

Are you trying to loosen up?

Are you try to get your are working?

Are you trying to center your chops?

I believe buzzing can be beneficial as long as you're not relying on the act to take the place of practice. I personally buzz not only to loosen up, but to also get my ears working as i buzz with a piano of tuner that plays pitch.

Having a goal will help determine whether if you should do it or not and giving it a honest try to see if it helps will help answer your question.