TromboneChat

I really want to get into more etude playing.  I've played some Rochuts but not anything extensive.  So... I thought it would be good to ask your opinions on the best etudes.  Preferably you would say which is your favorite lyrical and favorite technical etude,, but anything is appreciated.  Just looking to improve fundamentals and musicality while also having a little fun  (maybe not based on what I hear about some of the Bitschs )  Preferably classical but jazz is also appreciated.

Edit: Looking for specific etudes not etude books.

Favorite lyrical etudes: "Lyrical Etudes" by Snedecor
Favorite technical etudes: "32 Etudes for Clarinet" by Rose (Clarinet etudes but many of them work well on trombone)

I like Rochut #60.  It's like a little concerto all by itself.  Not something you can dive right into, though.  There are also other Rochut (Bordogni) etudes that are really tuneful.

I don't have a favorite technical study -- they are more "meat and potatoes" and I play the ones that work on what I need to do (when I remember to play them ).

Call me crazy, but I find the some of the Blazhevich clef studies a lot of fun, although very tricky, to play.  Not that I can whip through them, but there is some really good music in there if you are up for a challenge.   

"Heat Wave" - Music Minus One Ira Nepus series. If you can play this etude technically perfect and with fabulous style, then put your shoes on; go play; get paid.

...Geezer

The best etude is the one that challenges you on the thing you need to be challenged on.

I've got the Tommy Pedersen advanced etudes for bass bone....gathering dust somewhere.

As he says in the intro "if you can play these you can play anything". I'll stress the word IF!

I'm sure it'll be the same for tenor

Two sets:

Douze Etudes by Delguidice

set of etudes in the back of Paul Bernard's Method Complete

these etudes cover technic and musicality

Two sets:

Douze Etudes by Delguidice

set of etudes in the back of Paul Bernard's Method Complete

these etudes cover technic and musicality

Right now, digging those in Ed Neumeister's book.  I also like J.J.'s.

Quote from: Roscotrombone on Jun 16, 2017, 07:57AMI've got the Tommy Pedersen advanced etudes for bass bone....gathering dust somewhere.

As he says in the intro "if you can play these you can play anything". I'll stress the word IF!

I'm sure it'll be the same for tenor

The Pederson etudes for tenor are actually quite playable, and much, much fun. They're really good to have. Out of print but you can get them through inter-library loans and make a copy...

Tyrell progressive etudes. Blazhevich clef studies are very useful to become fluent in clefs, but some of them are also really beautiful music. A must have for any tenor trombonist. His alto studies are hilarious.

Do the Bach Cello Suites count?

Can you just buy single etudes by themselves?  I'm not familiar with that concept.

What level are you at?

Don't know if the Voxman "Selected Studies for Trombone"  have been mentioned.  Most are quite favorable and would fit into my definition of 'my favorite'.  Most of them are at a mid to high intermediate level.Page 3, 4, 5, 7, 9 (Bohme), 14, 18, 31, 32, 37, 41, 47 all stand out for me.

Also, there a lot of really nice songs out there that can be used as etudes.  Pick your favorites and transcribe them into a suitable software package, then put them in keys or ranges where you need practice.

Quote from: BillO on Jun 18, 2017, 01:44PMCan you just buy single etudes by themselves?  I'm not familiar with that concept.

What level are you at?

Don't know if the Voxman "Selected Studies for Trombone"  have been mentioned.  Most are quite favorable and would fit into my definition of 'my favorite'.  Most of them are at a mid to high intermediate level.Page 3, 4, 5, 7, 9 (Bohme), 14, 18, 31, 32, 37, 41, 47 all stand out for me.

Also, there a lot of really nice songs out there that can be used as etudes.  Pick your favorites and transcribe them into a suitable software package, then put them in keys or ranges where you need practice.

Yes! Why is this such an "out there" concept for most everyone on this Forum.

If we look up the word "etude", we find this: "a short musical composition, typically for one instrument, designed as an exercise to improve the technique or demonstrate the skill of the player." Seems to me almost any written melody, if it can be played on a single instrument is - by definition - an etude. But everyone seems to insist that it means a "classical" piece. I don't get it.

...Geezer

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Jun 18, 2017, 01:54PMYes! Why is this such an "out there" concept for most everyone on this Forum.

If we look up the word "etude", we find this: "a short musical composition, typically for one instrument, designed as an exercise to improve the technique or demonstrate the skill of the player." Seems to me almost any written melody, if it can be played on a single instrument is - by definition - an etude. But everyone seems to insist that it means a "classical" piece. I don't get it.

...Geezer

Presumably, most written melodies are not "designed as an exercise" and are therefore not, by [your] definition, etudes.  Of course, if you find a melody that demonstrates or necessitates a technique, principle or skill that you want or need to work on, then it can be played as an etude.  A well-written collection of etudes will perform this role in a more-or-less explicit way, and be progressive in one way or another (technically and/or conceptually).  None of this means one can't develop one's own collection, but this takes time, and implies that you have some idea of what you're looking for.  In the meantime, an etude book is a useful tool.

They also don't need to be "classical," as for example, the Neumeister and Johnson collections noted earlier.  And any "classical" etude could be played with "non-classical" rhythms and displacements if so desired.

Naulais.

Any of the interval exercises in the Arban.

Also, Arban Studies in Dotted Eigths & Sixteenth Notes - #18, #31, and #38.

Quote from: growlerbox on Jun 18, 2017, 02:47PMPresumably, most written melodies are not "designed as an exercise" and are therefore not, by [your] definition, etudes.  Of course, if you find a melody that demonstrates or necessitates a technique, principle or skill that you want or need to work on, then it can be played as an etude.  A well-written collection of etudes will perform this role in a more-or-less explicit way, and be progressive in one way or another (technically and/or conceptually).  None of this means one can't develop one's own collection, but this takes time, and implies that you have some idea of what you're looking for.  In the meantime, an etude book is a useful tool.

They also don't need to be "classical," as for example, the Neumeister and Johnson collections noted earlier.  And any "classical" etude could be played with "non-classical" rhythms and displacements if so desired.

Every melody I play is for the purpose of advancing my skills; be they technical or musical. And they are often-times grouped into books; maybe not progressively harder as the book goes on, though.

I can play a conventional "etude" out of a conventional "etude" book very well. I can also play "jazz" ballad (etudes). Can those who dwell specifically on the conventional "etudes" play "jazz" ballad etudes as well? If not, then who is the more versatile performer?

...Geezer

Quote from: Burgerbob on Jun 18, 2017, 04:07PMNaulais.

Similar question as the overall thread: although I have subbed on bass several times for each of the past few years, I am mainly a tenor player. I am hoping to get more serious about bass because I love the sound (almost prefer it to tenor) and I have finally been able to acquire a horn (Bach 50) at a price within my reach. Any suggestions on etudes to work on as I develop bass technique & sound? Tenor will still be my main instrument, but I don't want to sound like a tenor player when I get called to play bass.

Good bass trombone etudes will be a fourth below tenor etudes.  One way to do this is to read your bass clef etudes in tenor clef and drop them an octave.

There is a book by Blume for trombone with F-attachment that is good for development.

I will assume you don't need to learn the trigger positions so something like Ostrander or Raph is not needed.  But they are wonderful introductions to the world of bass trombone.

There are also Tommy Pederson etudes for bass trombone.  I believe Hickey's has some of them.

You can look into the Kauko Kahila Semester of Studies (I think it specifies F tuba, but it works great for bass trombone).

I do like the Blume etudes, I used those a lot early in high school to work on getting around the valve register. Maybe it is time to dig that book back out! Thank you for all these suggestions!

Quote from: Robbymeese on Jun 18, 2017, 06:36PMSimilar question as the overall thread: although I have subbed on bass several times for each of the past few years, I am mainly a tenor player. I am hoping to get more serious about bass because I love the sound (almost prefer it to tenor) and I have finally been able to acquire a horn (Bach 50) at a price within my reach. Any suggestions on etudes to work on as I develop bass technique & sound? Tenor will still be my main instrument, but I don't want to sound like a tenor player when I get called to play bass.


Play bass more, and listen to more bass players. Any etudes will do, really. The Naulais are just really fun.

Quote from: Geezerhorn on Jun 18, 2017, 04:54PMEvery melody I play is for the purpose of advancing my skills; be they technical or musical. And they are often-times grouped into books; maybe not progressively harder as the book goes on, though.
Right.  A valid use of the material.  Harder to argue that's how they were "designed," though.

QuoteI can play a conventional "etude" out of a conventional "etude" book very well. I can also play "jazz" ballad (etudes). Can those who dwell specifically on the conventional "etudes" play "jazz" ballad etudes as well? If not, then who is the more versatile performer?

...Geezer

I guess that depends on the etudes and on eveything else the player is doing.  I don't think anyone is advocating "dwelling" on anything in particular. 

Some songs can work as etudes but not all.

Want to do lip slurs?  Try "Amazing Grace".  I learned this one from Vern Kagarice.

Transposing a song into several keys can be good practice.

Certainly a song is more fun than a dry exercise, but not all songs work as etudes.

My real point here is that when our young symphonic wannabees find out there are 1,000 applicants for 25 jobs, they may wish they were just as adept at playing in a polka band as they have become playing in an orchestra. You don't learn how to play a polka from endlessly practicing classical etudes. It's smart to diversify. That's why I believe that any melody that challenges a player in a way the player is uncomfortable with - is an etude; be it classical or otherwise.

...Geezer

You still need to be a good musician to play in a polka band.

Quote from: Burgerbob on Jun 19, 2017, 12:21PMYou still need to be a good musician to play in a polka band.

My point exactly! A good and well-rounded musician.

...Geezer

Perhaps this may help in our side discussion of what constitutes an etude. I draw the logic from the argument of what constitutes a sport vs a game. The argument goes: "If you can smoke a cigar while doing it; it is not a sport". Okay, how's this: If a given melody line has words that can be sung, it is not an etude. Therefore a song is a melody line with words to be sung against it vs an etude does not have any words. Does anyone know of any etudes that have words?

...Geezer

Perhaps this may help in our side discussion of what constitutes an etude. I draw the logic from the argument of what constitutes a sport vs a game. The argument goes: "If you can smoke a cigar while doing it; it is not a sport". Okay, how's this: If a given melody line has words that can be sung, it is not an etude. Therefore a song is a melody line with words to be sung against it vs an etude does not have any words. Does anyone know of any etudes that have words?

...Geezer