Equipment too open

[mickael57280]

Hi, I have a large bore f att Yamaha that is pretty open blowing.
I play it with a Bach 6.5A mouthpiece with the .276 throat that is pretty open too.

The problem is that the more I progress the more I realize that something is wrong because first I always have the sensation that I push out air more than I release, and 'cause of that my sound is forced and some intervals or notes seems impossible to do at end of phrases because I have not enough air.

Don't know if maybe it's because I'm only 5.4 feet and so my lung capacity is not like someone who is 6 feet.

Can a mouthpiece with a more shallow throat add resistance?

[BGuttman]

It's not your size. I know a lady who is barely 5 feet 2 and can blast out notes on a bass trombone that can knock you over.

Are you taking lessons? A good teacher can help make you more efficient.

If you think a smaller mouthpiece will help, look for something non-Bach. There are Yamaha 47, Wick 6BL, and other naturally smaller mouthpieces. Worst case you can try something like a 12C with an adapter.

But I'm pretty sure the problem is not in the hardware.

[mickael57280]

I can play pretty loud too but on short burst

[hyperbolica]

Not knowing anything really about your situation I would tend to agree with Bruce. I play a much larger mouthpiece on my 547, and I'm only a little bigger than you.

At the same time, not every body is a good match with 547 bore horns. I notice I feel more in control of a 525 horn, even though I studied on 547 for many years.

Some people use open horns and regulate air flow at the chops and some count on the horn/mouthpiece to do it. You could probably learn to be more comfortable on your current equipment, or maybe a smaller horn is the quickest solution.

Try a Bach 36b (or even a King 3bf) somewhere and see how that feels. A 6.5 mouthpiece is already kinda small for a 547. If your horn has removable leadpipes, you might try a smaller pipe.

There's no rule that says you have to play 547. A lot of educators push that size compulsively, but some people just do better on smaller horns. The difference in feel is bigger than the difference in sound, which is to say that you'll notice a bigger difference than anyone listening to you will.

To me, getting the right instrument is mostly about feel. Sound is more a matter of practice. Best of luck.

[timothy42b]

The problem is that the more I progress the more I realize that something is wrong because first I always have the sensation that I push out air more than I release, and 'cause of that my sound is forced and some intervals or notes seems impossible to do at end of phrases because I have not enough air.

I would not look for an equipment fix. This sounds like a playing problem to me.

I don't think pushing out air gives you a forced sound. I think some other fault causes your forced sound, and also causes you to have to push out air. Probably you are playing with too much tension, or tension in the wrong place.

[Matt K]

Hi, I have a large bore f att Yamaha that is pretty open blowing.
I play it with a Bach 6.5A mouthpiece with the .276 throat that is pretty open too.

The problem is that the more I progress the more I realize that something is wrong because first I always have the sensation that I push out air more than I release, and 'cause of that my sound is forced and some intervals or notes seems impossible to do at end of phrases because I have not enough air.

Don't know if maybe it's because I'm only 5.4 feet and so my lung capacity is not like someone who is 6 feet.

Can a mouthpiece with a more shallow throat add resistance?

This is actually the sensation I get when my rim size is too small, not when the throat is too large. When I play a gargantuan throat (like .316"+, it feels as though there is a lot of resistance (to me at least). It makes sense to me as with larger throats you need to focus the air more yourself. Smaller (or "too small" throats) require that you don't focus as much as that so the sensation is actually that resistance feels like lit wants me to back off and lack of resistance wants me to focus. But perceptions are a weird thing and probably unique to all of us and probably unique to all of us at different points in time. And fwiw, .276 is on the smaller side for throats for large bore horns. Looks like Giddings only has one large bore piece that has something smaller and they go up to .3". Greg Black's offerings are mostly .281. etc.

Do you have access to a teacher or at least someone with a drawer full of mouthpieces? If you want to also pursue that route, having someone who has an assortment of pieces who can hand stuff to you and give you some feedback on what it's like on the other side of the horn is invaluable.

Which Yamaha is it? Some of them tend to be relatively heavy. Others are pretty balanced. In particular, I find the Peter Sullivan 882O whatever model to be a really bizarre blow. But there are other models that I really like (I'm currently on a YSL356G for my small horn). At any rate, as other suggested, sometimes a teacher can help identify if you aren't a good fit for the horn as there are instances where the horn is just not a good fit. But they also can help determine if there's something you can do differently. Really hard to tell one way or the other but I would try to go the route of fixing it that way first.

Finally, you should also make sure there isn't something wrong with the horn. A leaking valve or water key as well as impediments in the tubing itself (large burrs or gunk from blowing into the horn and not cleaning it, etc.) can make a horn feel like it is unfocused.

[CharlieB]

To the OP:
Not meaning to be snarky here..... just an observation.
This topic was extensively covered in answer to your post here last January 5.
"Can a teeth/jaw structure be incompatible with trombone mouthpiece?"
Based on a video that you provided, very knowledgeable trombonists advised that you are forming your embouchure incorrectly. That can result in overworking it, causing problems with range, endurance and air efficiency.
Have you made the embouchure corrections recommended? If not, lessons from the recommended teacher would be far more useful than experimenting with a mouthpiece fix.

[mickael57280]

Yes my air leak is because I stretch my lips too much , since I pucker more it's ok but lost my range

[Thrawn22]

Knock a dent in your tuning crook. It may help.

[harrisonreed]

Knock a dent in your tuning crook. It may help.

That has got to be the worst advice ever!

[Basbasun]

Knock a dent in your tuning crook. It may help.

That was not nice.

[tbonesullivan]

If you aren't working with a private teacher, I would definitely start. There are many reasons that you may be having issues, and it can start right with how you "pucker" your lips. They should be pressed together, but not pulled inward into any type of "pucker" shape.

If you are playing a .547 bore horn, the 6 1/2AL should not really be too open.