Earl Williams Trombone

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: Richard Tadaki on Feb 10, 2010, 01:41AMCompared to Drew's Wallace Williams, you might find this picture uninteresting but it's probably still a pretty rare sight.
Very interesting picture, and a rare site IMHO. I like !

NICE !!   

How bout some close ups of your horn? 

T.

[ttf_Richard Tadaki]

Thanks tsmart.     I've actually been holding off posting pictures of my horn until I get the 8 1/2" bell since that's what model 8's are supposed to come with but, since you asked, I'll try to take a few this weekend. 

How are you liking your Williams? 

Aloha,
Richard

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: Richard Tadaki on Feb 10, 2010, 08:54AM
How are you liking your Williams? 

Aloha,
Richard
I'm loving it. I still can't get over how open it blows, for a .480 bore. Awesome horn! I came out pretty good on it I think. 

Once I get a few projects out of the way (that was already in progress), I may ship my Willimas to john Dudda and have him go over it for me.

It's a keeper. Looking for me another "yard sale" Williams - every day! 

T.

[ttf_sly fox]

I'm glad that you're  but why wouldn't you be-- scoring a W& W for what -- less than $xxx. 

great job finding it, but it's a given you got a great deal

knowledge is power, knowledge is power

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: sly fox on Feb 10, 2010, 09:32AMI'm glad that you're  but why wouldn't you be-- scoring a W& W for what -- $xxx. 





 

T.

[ttf_octavposaune]

Hey Drew,

did that W&W develop those holes? are were they there when I shipped it to you?

I just brokered and shipped that trombone to you, didn't do anything except clean the slide.

Maybe those holes are why I thought it played funny, just didn't look into it.

Do You have a 10?  I thought some guy you occasionally played with had one, did you buy it from him?

Benn

[ttf_Bach42BOS]

Quote from: Richard Tadaki on Feb 10, 2010, 01:41AMHi All,

Compared to Drew's Wallace Williams, you might find this picture uninteresting but it's probably still a pretty rare sight.  It shows my friend Stephen (on the left) playing his Calicchio Williams 6, which I believe was the last 6 that John Duda made under the Williams name, and me playing my Calicchio 8 with the Maui Pops Orchestra.  I feel justified in showing this picture in a Williams thread because almost all of the parts of my 8 were made when John still had the rights to use the Williams name.  John messed up with one of the outer slide tubes and had to pull another one, so that's the only part that wasn't made when he was still making Williams trombones.

Those of you with sharp eyes might notice that the bell of my 8 isn't 8 1/2" in diameter.  Unfortunately John cut the bell too small to 8 1/8" so he is in the process of making an 8 1/2" bell for me, which I hope to get soon.

Personally, I wish we could get Drew over here to play bass trombone for us.  Imagine, a 6 on 1st, an 8 on 2nd, and a 10 on 3rd.  Oooooo...   

Aloha,
Richard

Oops, almost forgot the picture.


such a great picture! i'd love the opportunity to play my 10 with you folks. one day it'll happen

[ttf_Bach42BOS]

Quote from: octavposaune on Feb 10, 2010, 10:16PMHey Drew,

did that W&W develop those holes? are were they there when I shipped it to you?

I just brokered and shipped that trombone to you, didn't do anything except clean the slide.

Maybe those holes are why I thought it played funny, just didn't look into it.

Do You have a 10?  I thought some guy you occasionally played with had one, did you buy it from him?

Benn
you know what, i'm not really sure. honestly, when i got the horn, i didn't really go over it extensively, at least not the slide portion. i believe the holes may have already been there. the reason why i think this is because when i first started rehearsing for Barum, i took the WW to one of the rehearsals and that's when i first noticed it. prior to that it wasn't being used so i can only *assume* that they were already there. either way though, it's a great looking and sounding horn and it was a great price too

regarding the 10, i actually acquired it from John Noxon. i let one of my fellow trombonist use it for Barnum as he needed to use a bass. i would've let him use a different bass, but i just couldn't pass up the opportunity to see and hear an all Williams section for this show

[ttf_Richard Tadaki]

Quote from: Bach42BOS on Feb 10, 2010, 11:04PM
regarding the 10, i actually acquired it from John Noxon. i let one of my fellow trombonist use it for Barnum as he needed to use a bass. i would've let him use a different bass, but i just couldn't pass up the opportunity to see and hear an all Williams section for this show

Oh that's right!  You did an all Williams section for that musical with you on 1st with your WW, Dick on 2nd with his 6, and the bass bonist on your 10!  Way cool!     I wish I could have heard that!

[ttf_jnoxon]

Here is a link to an aricle about "Kid Ory's" Williams trombone being stolen from his daughters house and the return of the horn.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19850306&id=f-YOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=
44IDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4307,2340436

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: jnoxon on Feb 11, 2010, 09:42AMHere is a link to an aricle about "Kid Ory's" Williams trombone being stolen from his daughters house and the return of the horn.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19850306&id=f-YOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=
44IDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4307,2340436

The link didn't work (for me).

Try this one....

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-03-01/local/me-23669_1_kid-ory

Wonder if she ever got it back??

T.

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: jnoxon on Feb 11, 2010, 09:42AMHere is a link to an aricle about "Kid Ory's" Williams trombone being stolen from his daughters house and the return of the horn.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19850306&id=f-YOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=
44IDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4307,2340436


What I want to know is how I missed "Missing in Action 2" with Chuck Norris!!! I see it was playing back in 1985! How did I miss it? I bet it was the best movie EVER!!! Chuck Norris is hands down the greatest actor ever to walk the face of the Earth. I can not die a happy man until I see this movie.

[ttf_SilverBone]

Quote from: tsmart on Feb 11, 2010, 10:04AM
Wonder if she ever got it back??

T.

The original article pointed to said that she indeed did get it back.

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: SilverBone on Feb 11, 2010, 04:46PMThe original article pointed to said that she indeed did get it back.
Don't know why I couldn't get the link to work. John sent me a link on e-mail yesterday that worked. Cool read. Glad it all worked out.

T.

[ttf_JohnL]

Link
I noticed the date - March 6-7, 1985.

[ttf_anonymous]

Suggestions please....

The old original case for my Williams, is a little worn.... and the latches look old.... and since I'm planning to play this horn, I'd like to find a good replacement alternative to tote it back and forth to rehearsal.
Not a standard generic case, but hopefully a deluxe case of some kind. Something that looks nice, and does a fine job of protecting it, (and holding the horn snugly in place).

Any suggestions?

7.5 inch bell, straight tenor deluxe case?
and new pics of my Williams to come...

Thanks,
T.

PS - I do plan to keep the original old case.

[ttf_bachbone]

Quote from: tsmart on Feb 16, 2010, 05:56AMPS - I do plan to keep the original old case.

DANG!

Well, I use a Protec case, but from word of mouth, I hear they don't make the particular model anymore.

[ttf_Richard Tadaki]

Hi T.

I would think that you want a case with some kind of strong hard shell on the outside to protect your treasure so I think a ProTec is out.  I bought an SKB 462 Pro Tenor case for my 6 but I have to agree that it's pretty generic and, besides, I've had to insert towels so that things won't wiggle around so much, particularly the slide.  The smaller SKB 360 would probably do a better job of keeping things snug but, again, it looks pretty generic.

How about an Eastman or a Walt Johnson, both of which have a fiberglass shells?  There's also Marcus Bonna but DO NOT buy the Bonna Light Weight (LW) because the slide compartment only protects half of the slide.  I believe that if the bottom of the case was given a sharp whack, it could potentially damage the slide by whiplash.  (I bought one and sold it immediately.)  I'm afraid I don't know the scientific terms to describe it better, but since only half the slide is held in place it would be like a neck snapping due to impact of the car.  I believe that the slide is better protected in the regular Bonna tenor case though I've never seen a good picture of the inside.

Good luck.  For sure, you want to give your treasure the best protection you can find.   

Aloha,
Richard

[ttf_anonymous]

Thanks for the suggestions Richard!
Yea, I'm thinking like a plywood case (hard shell), nice deluxe interior with a slide compartment away from the bell (or flap to totally conceal the slide).

Might could find a good used King case or something like that... 

I'll google your suggestions though. Want to make sure it's NICE AND protected in the inside - for sure. 

T.

PS - Richard, that guy from Church I mention, is stationed in Oahu. Don't know if that close or not.

[ttf_anonymous]

Some cheaper horns on e-bay, actually have what looks to be NICE cases. I wonder if it would be worth buying on just for a case for my Williams, then re-sale the cheapo bone for the heck of it....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Merano-Student-Model-Trombone-w-Hard-Case_W0QQitemZ260551598502QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBrass_Instruments?hash=item3caa15e1a6

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-GLORY-Bb-KEY-TENOR-CONCERT-TROMBONE-W-CASE_W0QQitemZ270531351588QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBrass_Instruments?hash=item3efcecd424

http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-GOLD-TROMBONE-w-Case-YAMAHA-Care-Kit_W0QQitemZ400082014921QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBrass_Instruments?hash=item5d26bf12c9

T.

[ttf_Dan Martin]

Quote from: tsmart on Feb 16, 2010, 10:56AMSome cheaper horns on e-bay, actually have what looks to be NICE cases. I wonder if it would be worth buying on just for a case for my Williams, then re-sale the cheapo bone for the heck of it....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Merano-Student-Model-Trombone-w-Hard-Case_W0QQitemZ260551598502QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBrass_Instruments?hash=item3caa15e1a6

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-GLORY-Bb-KEY-TENOR-CONCERT-TROMBONE-W-CASE_W0QQitemZ270531351588QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBrass_Instruments?hash=item3efcecd424

http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-GOLD-TROMBONE-w-Case-YAMAHA-Care-Kit_W0QQitemZ400082014921QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBrass_Instruments?hash=item5d26bf12c9

No don't do that.  It's too easy.  Kidding!


DO IT!  I have, and it worked great.  I see some real nice cases wrapped around dogs.  Get a vintage case.  My 2 cents.

T.

[ttf_Richard Tadaki]

Quote from: tsmart on Feb 16, 2010, 09:51AMThanks for the suggestions Richard!
Yea, I'm thinking like a plywood case (hard shell), nice deluxe interior with a slide compartment away from the bell (or flap to totally conceal the slide).

Might could find a good used King case or something like that... 

I'll google your suggestions though. Want to make sure it's NICE AND protected in the inside - for sure. 

T.

PS - Richard, that guy from Church I mention, is stationed in Oahu. Don't know if that close or not.

I totally agree with you about the slide compartment being away from the bell.  With the Bonna LW, the slide tenon was extremely close to the bell but the fact that the compartment wall only went to half of the slide length was just as bad a problem to me.

BTW, my Burbank 6 came with a King coffin case.  The case has served me extremely well in the nearly 40 years that I've owned the horn.  I'm not sure how well your Williams would fit it, though.  Maybe John Noxon can tell you.

Oahu is a different island from where I live.  There's little chance that I'll ever get to see him.

Good luck with finding a case.

Aloha,
Richard

[ttf_anonymous]

Richard - get any pics of your horn yet???
As promised... here's some new ones of mine (it cleaned up nice). Still need to clean it a little more around the tight areas (braces, counterweight), but too much going on right now (it'll have to wait a little while).

Polished up enough though, to be ready for rehearsal tomorrow.... 











T.

[ttf_Richard Tadaki]

Wow!!!  What can I say?  Sweeeeet...      

Richard

[ttf_onetrombone]

Hi Troy,

Nice horn man!  I'm sure you already know this, but from what I understand Earl almost always used a king case when he provided it.  That means the King case that is with yours is likely the case it came from Earl in.  I looked back and didn't find the size of your bell. 

I've been struggling a bit with what case to use for my 6 as well.  The problem in some cases is the placement of the bell brace.  I'd want to test it out before I buy.  I've found that in many new kinds of cases my 6 won't fit in the smaller size case and in the larger version the bell section just moves around too much.

A King coffin case seems to work best for my 6. 

--John   

[ttf_Richard Tadaki]

Hi T,

I wonder if it would be possible to find someone who can totally restore your old WW case?  I had a luggage repairman put a new latch on my coffin case to replace the broken one for only a few bucks.  A total restoration would cost substantially more, I'm sure.

FYI, my friend with the Calicchio Williams 6 tried putting it in his modern King 2B case (not coffin case) and he said it didn't work well.  I didn't see how it fit so I have no idea what the problem was.  John is correct in that placement of the bell brace might be an issue, even with a coffin case.  Come to think of it, maybe especially with a coffin case. 

Aloha,
Richard

[ttf_onetrombone]

Hi Guys,

Richard I think the problem with lots of the modern "made for a specific brand" cases is the part of the case that will cradle the bell brace.  Neither of my Williams horns will fit in a modern stock big brown Bach case either because the bell brace hits the hard interior part of the case.  The problem with the Bach French cases is that the slide section isn't a good fit.

The advantage of the old style King coffin cases is that the bell essentially is just cradled in the case with no tab that fits among the bell braces.  The 60's cases just have a big slot for the horn.  Later cases from the 70's have a molded funnel shaped section for the bell to rest on with the receiver pointed up.  Hope that makes sense.  I've attached a picture of my 2B in a King coffin case--you can put the bell section in either way I just like it better face up.

I think the best solution is to take a big case like a modern Bach, remove the guts, and then fashion your own insert from foam rubber.  Cover it in fur and away you go.  I have a case like this I made up 20 years ago for my Bach 42T before Bach was making them.  Sorry, I don't have a picture of it.

--John

[ttf_Richard Tadaki]

I guess I should have made it clear that I bought my 1971 Burbank 6 from Earl back in 1971.  It came with a King coffin case and it fit correctly.  Right now, that 6 is getting some work done at John Sandhagen's shop but when I get it back I'll take some pictures of the 6 in the coffin case.  It doesn't fit in the case the way King had intended the 3B would fit but it works fine.

Your coffin case, by the way, is quite different from mine.  I believe your's is the new style, but I may be wrong.  I don't really know the time table of when the various styles of coffin cases were made. 

Anyway, I have an SKB 462 Pro Tenor case for my other 6 and it has more wiggle room than I feel comfortable with, especially for the slide compartment, so I try to pad everything with microfiber cloths.  I was hoping the Marcus Bonna Light Weight would work but the slide compartment wall reaching only half the length of the slide and the slide tenon being so close to the bell were complete turn-offs.

You're right, though, that you really have to try the horn in any case you might consider buying if you want a close-to-perfect fit.

I still think that restoring the case that the WW came in would be a good solution.  It might be a very expensive one, though I don't really know what the cost might be.  The craftsman may have to reglue the wood joints and possible fill the dents in the wood with bondo. 

Aloha,
Richard

[ttf_SilverBone]

I use a King coffin case for one of my Conn 6Hs.  My King case seems to me like it would accommodate nearly any small bore horn.

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: onetrombone on Feb 17, 2010, 05:52PMHi Troy,

Nice horn man!  I'm sure you already know this, but from what I understand Earl almost always used a king case when he provided it.  That means the King case that is with yours is likely the case it came from Earl in.  I looked back and didn't find the size of your bell. 
--John   
Hi John. The bell size is 7.5 inches.

The case, is an Olds Case, from when Earl was building horns in LA, near the Olds factory - and is the original case to the horn (mines a '38-'40 yr model .480 bore horn). King cases came a little later (info from John Noxon).

BTW - I like the pic of that King case. I had one from a 3-b, but let it go (it was in semi dis-repair.)

Quote from: Richard Tadaki on Feb 17, 2010, 06:30PMHi T,

I wonder if it would be possible to find someone who can totally restore your old WW case?  I had a luggage repairman put a new latch on my coffin case to replace the broken one for only a few bucks.  A total restoration would cost substantially more, I'm sure.

Aloha,
Richard
Richard, you're right - it would cost.
I think I could do it myself, as far as re-covering the inside and outside (I work at a Furniture Manufacturing firm, and have re-done a case or two for myself)... but it's such a small case, and not a "deluxe" case. I'd like to get something a little bigger, and nicer. I have a Bach 42B, and I like that case - but it's just a little bigger than I'd want for it.... so something smaller, but the same type design.

So for now.... I'm brainstorming. Which is dangerous.

T.

[ttf_Richard Tadaki]

Hi T,

So is the Bach 36B case the same as a 42B case?  If it's smaller, that might be a better match to your Williams.  Just a thought.

Richard

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: Richard Tadaki on Feb 18, 2010, 05:42PMHi T,

So is the Bach 36B case the same as a 42B case?  If it's smaller, that might be a better match to your Williams.  Just a thought.

Richard
I'm not sure Richard. Never had a 36B, so can't be certain. Seems logical, but sometimes I see Bach cases for sale and the ad say's "fit's 42B, 36B, etc...", so they might be the same case.

Maybe someone will chime in, that has a 36 & 42 - and let us know if they are the same, or if the 36 case is smaller....

T.

[ttf_octavposaune]

Hi All,

OLD Bach 36 and 42 cases were different, new ones are the same.

Bach french cases were different and the slide compartment was narrower for the 36's smaller width slide.  42's share all but 2 components with the 42 (8" flair instead of 8.5", but spun on the same mandrel, slide receiver for the smaller bore slide).

There is such a thing as a Bach coffin case.  Back in the 60's Bach had a load more case options available.  Non-F attachment trombones could get a brown squared off "gladstone" (I think is the term) style case.  Bell and slide drop into it and there is a partition between the slide and bell sections, but no flap.

I own one of these cases and it is not for sale.  Not quite as durable as a King case.  The Bach French cases would be a better choice (I also have one for a 36).  One could modify the blocking in a 36 or maybe even a 16 french case to fit a Williams, it would take either a little diligence or knowing a tech who knows how to do it.


Good luck finding a suitable case,


Benn

[ttf_dj kennedy]

who needs  a case  ???
 i got  a couple of coffs
 needing refurb
  one is  a  king  cof
but  older   /2b fits
 3b --no
-------------
 

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: dj kennedy on Feb 19, 2010, 09:00AMwho needs  a case  ???
 i got  a couple of coffs
 needing refurb
  one is  a  king  cof
but  older   /2b fits
 3b --no
-------------

I need one for my Williams. Looking for a nice one.
Got anything for a Model # 4 Williams sized horn?

Looking at one right now, from a Yamaha Allegro.
Don't think it'll work though. 

T.

[ttf_anonymous]

So.... I bought a Bach case (PayPal sent, so it's mine).
Reckon it'll work? If not, off to e-bay.

Gotta get into it though - it's locked - no key.
Suggestions?

http://orlando.craigslist.org/msg/1591103569.html

T.

[ttf_bachbone]

Quote from: tsmart on Feb 19, 2010, 01:12PMSo.... I bought a Bach case (PayPal sent, so it's mine).
Reckon it'll work? If not, off to e-bay.

Gotta get into it though - it's locked - no key.
Suggestions?

http://orlando.craigslist.org/msg/1591103569.html

T.

Your the one who snatched it from me!?!?! Ha! Nice buy!

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: bachbone on Feb 19, 2010, 01:27PMYour the one who snatched it from me!?!?! Ha! Nice buy!
Snooze, ya loose.

If the Williams don't fit, I'll sell it to ya for $150 + shipping.

T.

[ttf_sly fox]

to open w/o the key, try dynamite.  but don't use as much as Butch and Cassidy did.

[ttf_bachbone]

Quote from: tsmart on Feb 19, 2010, 01:43PMSnooze, ya loose.

If the Williams don't fit, I'll sell it to ya for $150 + shipping.

T.

Really? Sweet! Could you insure it for $50 for me???

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: bachbone on Feb 19, 2010, 04:15PMReally? Sweet! Could you insure it for $50 for me???
Just for you, I would..... for an extra $25 ($175+shipping - insured for $50).

Postal Money Order ONLY (No paypal, no disputes. )
IF I decide to sell it.....

T.

[ttf_octavposaune]

Those Bach cases have a stupidly simple key, with I think one tang on them.

Not even a tumbler in them.  Go ask some one with a key to a paper towel dispenser.  I think a janitor would have something that would work.

That looks like a 36-42 case from the early 80's.  I have one just like it for my 42.

Great steal, I really wouldn't worry about opening it.

Benn

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: octavposaune on Feb 19, 2010, 10:03PMGreat steal, I really wouldn't worry about opening it.

Benn
Too many comedians. 
That was funny though! 

Not as good of a steal as I was hoping. Wound up paying $29 shipping  , and $22 cartoning 

Still around $75, ain't hurt too bad - Just hope it works. 
If not, I can always sell it to Koda for a fortune. 

T.

[ttf_sly fox]

no, he wants to bid cheap, pay cheaper and sell high ask Dan


ooo, did I say that 

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: sly fox on Feb 22, 2010, 07:34AMno, he wants to bid cheap, pay cheaper and sell high ask Dan


ooo, did I say that 
Well aware.
That's why I jacked the price for Koda (if I do sell it), or...
I have another interested party (I'd let the other party have it, for what I have in it ).

Just sayin...

T.

[ttf_sly fox]

Quote from: tsmart on Feb 22, 2010, 07:59AMWell aware.
That's why I jacked the price for Koda (if I do sell it), or...
I have another interested party (I'd let the other party have it, for what I have in it ).

Just sayin...

T.

and I thought you only planned on overcharging me   

[ttf_Dan Martin]

Quote from: tsmart on Feb 22, 2010, 06:32AMToo many comedians. 
That was funny though! 

Not as good of a steal as I was hoping. Wound up paying $29 shipping  , and $22 cartoning 

Still around $75, ain't hurt too bad - Just hope it works. 
If not, I can always sell it to Koda for a fortune. 

T.

Never know,  you may find another Williams in it..   

[ttf_anonymous]

Quote from: Dan Martin on Feb 22, 2010, 08:23AMNever know,  you may find another Williams in it..   
If I did, wow, what a roll! I'd go buy my first lotto ticket too! 

T.

[ttf_jnoxon]

Well got a new baby in the family! Serial number is 19, .490 bore, 7 inch bell. Earliest serial I have seen so far. Pat Pending on the grip and tuning in the slide so prolly between 1925 and 1928. That is when Earl applied for the patent and finall got it 3 years later. Needs new inner tubes, some 2B tubes will work. case is ever in decent shape.

[ttf_anonymous]

Where's the drooling icon when ya need it??

Awesomeness, plain and simple. 

LOVE IT John !

T.