TromboneChat

Posted: **Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:06 pm**

I own one Kanstul - the 1662i. I think in the long run, I'll decide that I really love the instrument, but I keep going back and forth about it. Mechanically, it's a great instrument, although you really have to keep after the slide to keep it feeling good. When it gets bad, it goes down hill fast.

Everytime I bring in a different instrument to either big band or quartet or orchestra, people miss the sound of that 1662i. Its just really nice sound on and under the staff. It works above the staff, but the feedback behind the bell isn't maybe the best.

I've played/briefly owned a 760 for a while, and to me it was frighteningly bright. I'm not afraid of some brightness, but this was bright.

I've always wanted a 1608. If someone has one you'd like to unload for a trade, I'd love to get one of those (8h equivalent with TIS).

Posted: **Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:39 am**

A very inside person told me this morning that they're hammering something out.

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:19 pm**

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:06 pm Everytime I bring in a different instrument to either big band or quartet or orchestra, people miss the sound of that 1662i. Its just really nice sound on and under the staff. It works above the staff, but the feedback behind the bell isn't maybe the best.

It projects like mad and as a consequence the feedback behind the bell can fool you. I have the same experience with my dependant 1662. The feedback is not bad behind the bell but you can be triicked to think you are not heard when people in the room hear you loud and clear. The only horn that beats this horn is my Holton 169.

I've played/briefly owned a 760 for a while, and to me it was frighteningly bright. I'm not afraid of some brightness, but this was bright.

I don't think it is bright. The dual bore makes it a little to mellow for lead. I think 3rd in a big band could be perfect or as a cheap substitute for a Bach 36

/Tom

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:44 am**

Warburton is looking at buying the Kanstul factory in Anaheim. If that comes to pass it would be a good thing for the trumpet, trombone and marching brass community.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:00 pm**

baBposaune wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:44 am Warburton is looking at buying the Kanstul factory in Anaheim.

To move the Kanstul manufacturing equipment to Florida?

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:14 pm**

baBposaune wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:44 am Warburton is looking at buying the Kanstul factory in Anaheim. If that comes to pass it would be a good thing for the trumpet, trombone and marching brass community.

I'd heard whispers about "someone from Florida" and thought it might be Warburton, but was not able to verify the rumor.

I would expect that they will pack everything up and ship it to the Sunshine State.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:16 pm**

JohnL wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:14 pm I would expect that they will pack everything up and ship it to the Sunshine State.

Everything would be a lot cheaper, especially real estate.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:28 pm**

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:16 pm
JohnL wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:14 pm I would expect that they will pack everything up and ship it to the Sunshine State.
Everything would be a lot cheaper, especially real estate.

Labor, too. And energy. Insurance. Taxes. You get the picture.

But beyond the cost, I can't see trying to run a factory in Anaheim, CA from Titusville, FL.

Posted: **Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:18 pm**

Any updates? I saw mention on facebook that Kanstul is going to be demoing at Trombone Day at Mount Sac??? Are they up and running again? Or just burning through the rest of their inventory?

Posted: **Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:06 am**

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:18 pm Any updates? I saw mention on facebook that Kanstul is going to be demoing at Trombone Day at Mount Sac??? Are they up and running again? Or just burning through the rest of their inventory?

Was that a post by Kanstul or someone else?

Posted: **Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:43 am**

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:18 pm I saw mention on facebook that Kanstul is going to be demoing at Trombone Day at Mount Sac??? Are they up and running again? Or just burning through the rest of their inventory?

I guess we'll know for sure on Saturday (Southern California Trombone Day).

No good reason why Kanstul shouldn't be selling off their inventory - unless all the sales personnel have also been laid off!

Posted: **Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:15 pm**

JohnL wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:06 am
mrdeacon wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:18 pm Any updates? I saw mention on facebook that Kanstul is going to be demoing at Trombone Day at Mount Sac??? Are they up and running again? Or just burning through the rest of their inventory?
Was that a post by Kanstul or someone else?

Horn Guys posted it on facebook. They worded the post in a way that made it seem like Kanstul would be there.

Posted: **Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:27 pm**

The Kanstul Musical Instruments page on Facebook just posted something about their appearance at the SoCal Trombone Day about 11 to 12 hrs ago.
This is what it said along with some pics:
"SoCal Trombone Day last-minute entry. Was a good day of clinics, concerts and meeting local players. Special thanks to Len Wicks, the MSAC music department and the other local dealers who made the day possible!"

Why would they do this if they are going out of business? I could be wrong but it just didn't seem like they were trying to sell off remaining inventory. The pics had a lot of horns and cases on display.
Just go to Facebook and type in Kanstul Musical Instruments, Inc in the search field.

Robert

Posted: **Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:53 pm**

BflatBass wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:27 pmWhy would they do this if they are going out of business? I could be wrong but it just didn't seem like they were trying to sell off remaining inventory. The pics had a lot of horns and cases on display.

Not all of those horns are Kanstul's. The long table with cases, accessories, and trombones belonged to another vendor (Bertrand's Music). The shorter table next to the Kanstul banner (four trombones on the table plus the alto on the floor) was the Kanstul display. They also had a list of cosmetically challenged horns they were looking to move out (those horns were not on display).

Posted: **Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:01 pm**

Ok, that make more sense. I misinterpreted the photos.

Posted: **Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:36 am**

----

Kanstul is having a blowout sale. Both small and large bore tenors, not all models, as well as euphs, tubas, bass trumpet...the info I received says to contact them by email only, no calls.

www.kanstul.com

===

Posted: **Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:43 am**

Is there a way to see these blowout prices?

Posted: **Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:59 am**

The blowout stuff is on their Facebook page.

Posted: **Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:19 am**

Not trombones yet

Posted: **Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:52 pm**

see below

Posted: **Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:52 pm**

TheSheriff wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:52 pm ---

www.kanstul.com/wp-content/uploads/2019 ... celist.pdf

===

Posted: **Thu May 16, 2019 3:49 pm**

BAC just posted something on facebook... looks like BAC bought up a ton of parts and tooling from Kanstul.

Mike never said what he actually bought just said "tooling and parts" so I'm not sure if that means he effectively bought Kanstul and has the authority to produce Kanstul horns or if they just bought manufacturing stuff.

Wonder if he got all the bell and leadpipe mandrels? He does point at some in the video...

Posted: **Thu May 16, 2019 4:32 pm**

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 3:49 pmMike never said what he actually bought just said "tooling and parts" so I'm not sure if that means he effectively bought Kanstul and has the authority to produce Kanstul horns or if they just bought manufacturing stuff.

Just watched the video. You'll notice that Mike never actually said the name "Kanstul"; I expect that would indicate that he bought hardware but not the name.

Hopefully Mike will be able to offer jobs to some of the former Kanstul guys. I know of at least one who interviewed with him after the shutdown.

Posted: **Thu May 16, 2019 8:10 pm**

JohnL wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 4:32 pm Just watched the video. You'll notice that Mike never actually said the name "Kanstul"; I expect that would indicate that he bought hardware but not the name.

Hopefully Mike will be able to offer jobs to some of the former Kanstul guys. I know of at least one who interviewed with him after the shutdown.

I noticed that. I will say I'm happy BAC was the one to get the tooling and parts. Just based off of how they've been using former Williams and Olds tooling I think they will be able to do some cool things with the things they've gotten.

Imagine them being able to readily sell parts like reproduction 62H J bends, all of the various leadpipes and all the oodles of odd tubing that Kanstul made. I'm excited about the possibilities!

I am... slightly irked he hasn't just outright said BAC did or did not buy the Kanstul name and everything attached to it and/or that BAC ONLY bought "X" tooling and parts. He posted something else on Instagram, which like the video on facebook mildly implies BAC bought the company without him outright saying he did.

Maybe he did make it clear somewhere else... if he does outright say it someone please post that here! I'm interested to hear what actually happened in the deal and the status on Kanstul!

Posted: **Thu May 16, 2019 8:32 pm**

Mike did not buy the name, but he bought all the tooling. All of it. A lot of stuff that hasnt neen in production for a long time, not original to Kanstul is included, so he is going to potentially resurrect some designs not seen in a while, with some BAC originality of course. I'm not sure what the plans are on tubas, but theres in there as well.

Personally i find this very exciting, and am eager to see what comes of it. Moving all of that is going to be a logistical nightmare!

Posted: **Thu May 16, 2019 8:47 pm**

LIBrassCo wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:32 pm Mike did not buy the name, but he bought all the tooling. All of it. A lot of stuff that hasnt neen in production for a long time, not original to Kanstul is included, so he is going to potentially resurrect some designs not seen in a while, with some BAC originality of course. I'm not sure what the plans are on tubas, but theres in there as well.

Personally i find this very exciting, and am eager to see what comes of it. Moving all of that is going to be a logistical nightmare!

That's really awesome!!!

Like I said in my other post I'm excited to see what they cook up. While I might not like all of their designs I do appreciate that they are willing to try new things and resurrect old things!

Posted: **Thu May 16, 2019 8:50 pm**

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:10 pmI am... slightly irked he hasn't just outright said BAC did or did not buy the Kanstul name and everything attached to it and/or that BAC ONLY bought "X" tooling and parts. He posted something else on Instagram, which like the video on facebook mildly implies BAC bought the company without him outright saying he did.

Maybe he did make it clear somewhere else... if he does outright say it someone please post that here! I'm interested to hear what actually happened in the deal and the status on Kanstul!

Give it a few days. Maybe they're still hammering out the details. Maybe the name is specifically excluded from the agreement, so Mike can't use it in any of his promotional materials.

Looking at the video again, at around the 1:00 mark:

There's a lot of tradition in the room I'm standing in right now. A lot of history. There is things like bins and parts and tools that were in the original Burbank Benge factory and the F. E. Olds company and factory and um and another factory...I'm in Anaheim, California

Seems like he's trying to think of a way to make it clear that he's talking about Kanstul without actually saying the name. I'm actually kinda impressed - he got through about 11 minutes of live stream without slipping up and saying the "K" word.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2019 1:54 am**

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2019 12:11 pm**

This is his reply to my comment on his video:
"We purchased all of the tooling, jigs, fixtures. The guy who taught me how to make bells, John Duda, is also the guy that taught Arnufo to make bells at Kanstul. And now John is working as our Foreman to help pass the torch! Now this! We’re committed to gradually bringing back as many models as possible and preserving the integrity of ‘how they were made’. Something often overlooked or completely ignored in past situations like this!!"

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2019 2:14 pm**

Mr. Corrigan certainly is enthusiastic and he obviously loves what he does. And he seems to be able to do some nice work at times. My problem with him is that he's also a compulsive liar: things are always "on order" or they "went out last week" or "just waiting on one more part". I also had an unfortunate incident where I traded an instrument to him which I later found out he sold to one of his employees for a sweetheart deal and pressured me to accept the low price for. Not ethical. I've heard the same thing from many other players as well as from a bunch of his former employers and coworkers. And while I'm sure he can do nice repair work, the piece I sent to him was some of the most shoddy ugly half-ass repair work I've ever seen, and I was charged top dollar for it. I feel like he lets his ambition get ahead of him. Hopefully now that his operation has grown he's been able to add more people who can keep him focused and honest. But, it's hard for me to see this as anything but a very bad thing for the Kanstul legacy.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2019 2:21 pm**

LIBrassCo wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 8:32 pm Mike did not buy the name, but he bought all the tooling. All of it. A lot of stuff that hasnt neen in production for a long time, not original to Kanstul is included, so he is going to potentially resurrect some designs not seen in a while, with some BAC originality of course. I'm not sure what the plans are on tubas, but theres in there as well.

Personally i find this very exciting, and am eager to see what comes of it. Moving all of that is going to be a logistical nightmare!

I'm hoping something like a buffing machine or draw table will fall off the trailer as he's passing through Dallas.....

Yes it's interesting/exciting that this stuff will still be available, but then again, the things that have disappeared or are no longer available can be attributed to lack of interest from the playing public, so unless there'a sizeable group of players willing to shell out some cash, we might or might not again see some of the older designs.

Eric

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2019 2:22 pm**

He certainly has his fan club. I'm a little apprehensive at how this will turn out as well.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2019 2:29 pm**

From what I can surmise, most of those people in his fan club have never actually tried to do business with him.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2019 4:59 pm**

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:21 pmI'm hoping something like a buffing machine or draw table will fall off the trailer as he's passing through Dallas.....

You want I should sneak in and loosen a tie-down or two before they roll out of Anaheim?

In all seriousness, I don't think that sort of thing was included in what Mike acquired. It's "tooling, jigs, and fixtures". No mention of machinery. Those big items would be expensive to transport, particularly if they are large and/or heavy enough to require a specialty mover.

If I were Mike, I would try to fast track the trumpets, with special emphasis on getting the parts Kanstul made for third parties back in production as quickly as possible. The longer that stuff is out of production, the more likely those folks are to either find a new source or go out of business. If he's able to help them out, that'll create some significant goodwill toward him in the industry. Win/Win.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2019 5:00 pm**

JonTheCadet wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 12:11 pm This is his reply to my comment on his video:
"We purchased all of the tooling, jigs, fixtures. The guy who taught me how to make bells, John Duda, is also the guy that taught Arnufo to make bells at Kanstul. And now John is working as our Foreman to help pass the torch! Now this! We’re committed to gradually bringing back as many models as possible and preserving the integrity of ‘how they were made’. Something often overlooked or completely ignored in past situations like this!!"

There was also a comment he made somewhere also on instagram last night where he outright said that they bought the tooling and parts but not the name.

Happy we've got confirmation on that now from both primary and secondary sources.

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2019 5:01 pm**

JohnL wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 4:59 pm In all seriousness, I don't think that sort of thing was included in what Mike acquired. It's "tooling, jigs, and fixtures". No mention of machinery. Those big items would be expensive to transport, particularly if they are large and/or heavy enough to require a specialty mover.

If I were Mike, I would try to fast track the trumpets, with special emphasis on getting the parts Kanstul made for third parties back in production as quickly as possible. The longer that stuff is out of production, the more likely those folks are to either find a new source or go out of business. If he's able to help them out, that'll create some significant goodwill toward him in the industry. Win/Win.

Good point! That was a large chunk of Kanstuls business. Someone has to fill the gap they left!

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2019 5:26 pm**

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 5:00 pmThere was also a comment he made somewhere also on instagram last night where he outright said that they bought the tooling and parts but not the name.

Did the post specifically mention "parts"? If so, that adds a new dimension beyond the tooling, jigs, and fixtures. It takes a while to start making money from tooling, but parts you can start selling as soon as you get everything organized. It won't necessarily be a lot of revenue, but it's at least some return on the investment.

Once again putting myself in Mike's shoes, the first trombone stuff I'd try to get into production would be the leadpipes. Lots of guys and gals playing Kanstul pipes in other makes of horn. If he's true to the spirit of Kanstul, he'll call them the Anaheim (or maybe "OC") leadpipes. He might even be able to use most of the old Kanstul designations (depends on their trademark status).

Given the never-ending discussions of tenor/bass "tweener" horns we have here, maybe he can look into that - especially if he's got the Olds S-20/S-23 bell mandrel. Mate that up with a dual-bore .547"/.562" slide and a good double valve set and you might have a winner (Mike, if you're reading this - I'd be very interested in buying one myself).

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2019 9:50 pm**

JohnL wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 5:26 pm
if he's got the Olds S-20/S-23 bell mandrel. Mate that up with a dual-bore .547"/.562" slide and a good double valve set and you might have a winner (Mike, if you're reading this - I'd be very interested in buying one myself).

The S20 already had a 555/565 TIS slide. Two things I'd do to modernize that horn - lighten the slide somewhat (maybe with the Kanstul TIS mechanism) and put a double valve on it. In fact, resurrecting the 9" P24g with the CR valves and levers and the dual bore slide option might be a more marketable move...

Posted: **Fri May 17, 2019 11:17 pm**

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 9:50 pmThe S20 already had a 555/565 TIS slide. Two things I'd do to modernize that horn - lighten the slide somewhat (maybe with the Kanstul TIS mechanism) and put a double valve on it.

And no one currently makes slides tubes in .554" or .565"; to have any hope of getting the horn made, it would be necessary to use as many off-the-shelf parts as possible - thus a .547"/.562" slide. A lighter slide would be a must - but would you even want to make it as a TIS, at least to start with? Replacing the J-crook with a tuning slide and a neckpipe might result in a more marketable design.

In fact, resurrecting the 9" P24g with the CR valves and levers and the dual bore slide option might be a more marketable move...

Except the P-24G is too big to be a good tweener. It's got the same size flare (9") as an S-20, but that's where the resemblance ends; it's about .050" bigger at the tail end of the bell than the S-20 bell at the same point, and the throat is much larger (based on mute insertion).

As an aside, I know for certain that Kanstul made at least one dependent-double symphony-bore tenor - but Zig used their regular symphonic tenor bell, while the guy it was built for had envisioned something more like a King 1480/5B bell (which would have required new tooling). It was never quite what he'd hoped for.

Posted: **Sat May 18, 2019 2:30 am**

Its a little off topic, but I'm doing a "baby bass" for myself. And if anyones interested, a combination that works is a holton 9" bell, with a king 7b tuning tuning crook, two .562 valves (im using rotax) and a 547-562 slide. I am undecided on the leadpipe, but i may end up with either none, or a very short one i will machine out of billet titanium (really into titanium these days). The throat of the bell is more tenorish, but the tapers are perfect. If you want it to have a deeper sound, just go .562 slide and .593 valves. Im going with adjusting the leadpipe (or lack thereof) to get what i am looking for.

Posted: **Sat May 18, 2019 9:01 am**

Mike Corrigan posted a video on Facebook. He's obviously at the Kanstul factory, although he never says the name. I'm assuming this is for legal reasons. Apparently B.A.C. is acquiring all the tooling. Is anyone able to elaborate?

Posted: **Sat May 18, 2019 9:39 am**

LIBrassCo wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:30 am Its a little off topic, but I'm doing a "baby bass" for myself. And if anyones interested, a combination that works is a holton 9" bell, with a king 7b tuning tuning crook, two .562 valves (im using rotax) and a 547-562 slide. I am undecided on the leadpipe, but i may end up with either none, or a very short one i will machine out of billet titanium (really into titanium these days). The throat of the bell is more tenorish, but the tapers are perfect. If you want it to have a deeper sound, just go .562 slide and .593 valves. Im going with adjusting the leadpipe (or lack thereof) to get what i am looking for.

What does this have to do with Kanstul?...

Posted: **Sat May 18, 2019 10:12 am**

Posted: **Sat May 18, 2019 10:13 am**

Wait, so John Duda is now at BAC? Can anyone confirm this?

Posted: **Sat May 18, 2019 10:27 am**

Posted: **Sat May 18, 2019 7:07 pm**

Regarding whereabouts of John Duda:
http://www.calicchio.com/

Posted: **Sat May 18, 2019 7:12 pm**

I was answering John's tweener horn post is all.

Posted: **Mon May 20, 2019 4:33 pm**

LarryPrestonRoberson wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 9:01 am Mike Corrigan posted a video on Facebook. He's obviously at the Kanstul factory, although he never says the name. I'm assuming this is for legal reasons. Apparently B.A.C. is acquiring all the tooling. Is anyone able to elaborate?

I just saw the video, and the description now says that B.A.C. is acquiring the manufacturing content from Kanstul and will be relocating it to Kansas City. He only mentions FE Olds in the video itself, possibly for legal reasons until the deal is finalized, but the video description does state Kanstul.

Posted: **Mon May 20, 2019 5:20 pm**

I have mixed feelings about this deal. On one hand it's great that we might have another shot at Kanstul and Olds horns. Kanstul stuff was very affordable, and kind of minimalist design . On the other hand BAC has a reputation for severely overpriced and kind of ornate stuff.

Posted: **Tue May 21, 2019 2:01 am**

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 5:20 pm I have mixed feelings about this deal. On one hand it's great that we might have another shot at Kanstul and Olds horns. Kanstul stuff was very affordable, and kind of minimalist design . On the other hand BAC has a reputation for severely overpriced and kind of ornate stuff.

I feel obligated for accuracy purposes to address this. Will BAC make you a one of a kind, over the top horn? Hell yea they will. But they will also make you an instrument in line with conventional standards? If that's what you want, yes, as it's solely up to the customer. As far as pricing, are they higher than some other companies? Sure. Are they lower than others? Again, yes.

They don't want to be the next Kanstul, or end up in financial hot water like Shires did. They are simply charging what they feel they need to in order to grow a US custom horn company in a market where there are so few. Some may find their pricing more aggressive, while others will understand what they stand for. Personally, I get it, and wholeheartedly support what they are doing for the industry.

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