TromboneChat

I listen to J.J. Johnson. When he improvise its like its not an improvising but a composition that is well planned and though of.

Leif

StretchLongarm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:34 pm Frank Rehak. Folks forget his art.

Yes, Frank Rehak, and Bruce Fowler. I haven't heard many folks with the range that Bruce had.

My top 10 trombones in Jazz:

KID ORY
J.C. HIGGINBOTHAM
BENNY MORTON
LAWRENCE BROWN
VIC DICKENSON
TYREE GLENN
BILL HARRIS
MELBA LISTON
JIMMY CLEVELAND
SHIGEHARU MUKAI


honourable mentions:

IKE RODGERS
JIMMY HARRISON
DICKY WELLS
TOMMY DORSEY
WYCLIFFE GORDON

• ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • °
Ike Rodgers - Screenin' The Blues


Benny Morton Trombone Choir - Once In A While (incl. Vic Dickenson, Bill Harris, Claude Jones), NY 1944


Lester Young And His Band - Jumpin' at Mesners' (Vic Dickenson on trombone), LA 1945


Tyree Glenn - Stairway To The Stars (1958)


Shigeharu Mukai - Nimuoro Neina (1979)



(that was a good exercise in narrowing it all down for me!)

I’m happy to see at least one mention of Ed Neumeister.

I recently developed a new appreciation for Slide Hampton.

BrassedOn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:03 am Melba Liston, trombone composer arranger. She also had a album with heavy hitters like Urbie and Slide.

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There are 2 trombonists on that track, her and Frank Rehak.

Her main albums had nothing but trombone heavy hitters: "Melba Liston And Her Bones", where 'Insomnia' comes from, also has Bennie Green, Al Grey, Benny Powell, Jimmy Cleveland AND Slide Hampton!

And "The Trombones Inc." came out under Bob Brookmeyer, Jimmy Cleveland and Frank Rosolino's names and also has, in addition to Melba Liston — Bennie Green, Benny Powell, Frank Rehak, Milt Bernhart, and 18 more trombonists i've never heard of.

I'm not aware of any Melba Liston / Urbie Green recordings. Please let us know if you know any
...

bonafide wrote: ↑Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:26 am [...] I would advise you to listen to other musicians. [...]

Outside of trombone I've been sticking mainly with singers like Aretha Franklin, Billie Holiday, Maria Callas, other great singers from jazz, r'n'b, rap and all the way to latest trap. Some of their recordings may also have wonderful trombone in them:

Aretha Franklin with Tyree Glenn:


Billie Holiday with Jack Teagarden:


Billie Holiday with Benny Morton:


or Kojey Radical, why not? with great Shabaka Hutchings here- coincidentally, he's got quite a trombonistic style on tenor saxophone)
Shabaka Hutchings & Kojey Radical - No Gangster


This would be jazz too (in some parallel reality). i mean the rap thing...
If jazz hasn't been elevated to high-brow status, turned into a collection of holy relics (possibly, sadly, for good reasons too…)
Swindle & Kojey Radical - Coming Home (whole playlist there now)


***
now, thinking about it — dancers are also great, so amazing to learn from. Everything's the same just no sound. But all the most important elements are there: timing, phrasing, rhythm, etc, etc

more singers (and trombones). one song seven versions
'All Of Me' 1932-1958
please let me know if something's not working.possible youtub issues

There is so many famous but also not famous I adore. I'm little jealous on all of you who can improvise. I have been a teacher for over 35 year's and I'm surprised how kids can improvise without fear. So they are one of my favourite. I always tell the beginners to fiddle a little around their instrument. Even as warm up.

The famous;
Bill Watrous, number one because I heard him alive. Long time ago. Improvising in a dry room rather early in the morning. With a bunch of trombonists listening. It was just fantastic and can still hear that sound in my ears. I understand why he sound glorious on ballads too. He had a big sound on a small trombone.

J.J. Johnson, because everything he improvised seems logical. Nearly as it was a symphony already composed. Amazing.....it's kind of never a wrong note in his improvising. I think Urbie Green was inspired by him?
And so many more of course; Slide Hampton, Urbie Green, Curtis Fuller.....

The Unknown;
So many around us. So many and it's growing each day.
The local bigband have a trombone player that begin improvising in grown up age. And he is just growing. It's just great to follow the improvements! Improvements among younger players is no news, but among older players it's good to follow.

The worst;
I tried improvising in my young day's. In the rehearsal everyone liked it, the leader liked it. In the jazz club no one said a word. And that's the worst sign you can ever get. But I still do improvising when I teach. I feel a little familiar with the young players which has no fear or doubt.

Leif

It is a great impulse to want to know about quality listening. I asked my early teachers for lists of their recommendations and that list became a list of my favourite musicians, orchestras and composers for a large part of life.

I wonder if with today's ease of access if it will be harder to go into depth with any listening. My first record collection was only about 12 LP sets that included two albums featuring JJ and Kai, the Bill Waterous big band, a Miles Davis album with JJ, a Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra album, the London Symphony playing John Williams, Chicago playing Mahler 5, a Phillip Jones Brass Ensemble recording, a couple Canadian Brass albums and a Blood Sweat and Tears greatest hits. I listened to those for about 3 years and was able to sing along to almost every note by the end.

Really internalizing listening is probably pretty important. I think it helps build a store house of musical vocabulary.

It's easy to see from the list above that I wouldn't be able to play traditional jazz. And I wasn't for years until I plugged that listening hole.

Savio wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:00 pm [...] I always tell the beginners to fiddle a little around their instrument. Even as warm up. [...]

(sorry i cut up your post like this, i hope the meaning is not altered by it)
but this is just so so great!!!
i think when jazz was evolving & reinventing itself, that was how it proceeded: through fiddling (or what looked like fiddling) with the instruments. It was playful is what i'm saying, and that propelled it forward, for a while... (not touching on social reasons here)

Savio wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:00 pm J.J. Johnson, because everything he improvised seems logical. Nearly as it was a symphony already composed. Amazing.....it's kind of never a wrong note in his improvising. [...]

J.J. is unhuman or superhuman - one of the small number of players of unimaginable genius.
but also: not every solo is an improvisation. solo is an element of musical form, improvisation is technique of making it up as you go along... I'm sure J.J. Johnson was amazing at both.

Savio wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:00 pm The Unknown;
So many around us. So many and it's growing each day.
The local bigband have a trombone player that begin improvising in grown up age. And he is just growing. It's just great to follow the improvements! Improvements among younger players is no news, but among older players it's good to follow.

! ! ! ! !! !!!!!!!

Savio wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:00 pm The worst;
I tried improvising in my young day's. In the rehearsal everyone liked it, the leader liked it. In the jazz club no one said a word. And that's the worst sign you can ever get. [...]

I wouldn't pay them any mind whatsoever. I only ever listen to my loved ones. (they not necessarily saying the truth, but it's them i care about and it's for them i do what i do)

Brazilian trombonist Raul de Souza, definitely part of the canon.
Played mostly valve trombone in the early days (the ’60s), then also the slide trombone. I think i can just about tell them apart. Amazing sound, amazing player.

«Sweet Lucy» 1977


***
There’s definitely something very peculiar about the trombone. I’ve gone through several phases throughout my life, attempting to learn drumming, trumpet, electronic instruments, none of that stuck. Trombone is different, don’t know what it is. It’s definitely the instrument itself, & also the diversity of musics with trombone in it: it doesn’t stop throwing up* absolutely stunning surprises.
Trombone universe is unstoppable, it just keeps expanding.
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*pardon?

• • •
mid 70s to mid 80s Shigeharu Mukai was clearly under de Souza’s spell, but was still doing it in his own inimitable way. (the japanese were amazing at that in the 2d half of the 20th century, maybe still are)

Duke Ellington, one of those formidable, larger than life figures of the 20th century (also Albert Hitchcock comes to mind for some reason). I bet when he walked into a room it instantly became a «temporary autonomous zone» where earthbound rules and regulations no longer applied.
Here’s a little playlist with some 1966 orchestra performances & great trombones of Buster Cooper, Lawrence Brown, and Chuck Connors on bass:

1. The Twitch
2. Solitude
3. The Mooche
4. Caravan
5. Do Nothin' Till You Hear From Me

L to R: Lawrence Brown, Chuck Connors, Buster Cooper, mid to late 1960s (amazing colour photos from Buster Cooper Memorial Page)
Adjusted here to make it look closer to realistic colour:

Ok, this is an absolutely astonishing sound!
Could be the saxophone sound embedded in my brain but still, its undeniably unique (to valve trombones and it's relatives, i reckon). I've got the word «boxy» in my head for such type of sound, probably meaningless for most people. As if coming from inside a big cardboard box (don't know where i got this from). Sounds to me very broad (opposite of focused/compressed), with a lot of space within...
This is how i gonna sound when i grow up!
Raul de Souza / Raulzinho:

Some that got me started.
Wayne Henderson(the Crusaders')
Fred Wesley
Andy Hunter (WDR Big Band)
Robin Eubanks
Clifton Anderson
Shannon Barnett (Formerly WDR Big Band)
Jimmy Knepper
Craig Harris
David Gibson
Julian Priester
Steve Davis
Ian McDougall
Reggie Watkins
Dave Bargeron
Going Back to where it all started - Kid Ory

Tyree Glenn is my J.J. - the style of either of them is complete, can’t add or subtract anything, it is totally itself. They also have a certain self-effacing virility in common but i especially like how fragile Glenn’s stuff is, add or subtract a tiniest bit and the world he had built vanishes.

’I Surrender Dear’ (arranged by Sy Oliver)
’I’ve Grown Accustomed to Her Face’ (arranged by Don Redman) starts at 3:50

iranzi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 9:48 pm

BrassedOn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:03 am Melba Liston, trombone composer arranger. She also had a album with heavy hitters like Urbie and Slide.
[...]

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[...]

I'm not aware of any Melba Liston / Urbie Green recordings. Please let us know if you know any
...

Found it! Neither of them are listed as featured soloists, but definitely together there:
"The Birth Of The Band" recorded May-June 1959
https://www.discogs.com/release/3342478 ... -Of-A-Band RIP Quincy Jones...

some more Melba Liston with Quincy Jones: viewtopic.php?p=257764#p257764

Ian McDougall (ex-Boss Brass lead trombone, Toronto studios 70's-80's, composer, arranger)

This is Ian in the '70's while he was transitioning from Vancouver to Toronto, when he would have been about 38 years old.

This is an original tune of his, really interesting throughout. His solo starts at 2:46.

But listen to the tune to get into the spirit of his solo. Totally Ian... very 'trombonistic', 'Urbie-like'....builds it like a composer.

Ian McDougall, one of the all time greats.