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Re: The Problem With Trombone Players
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 5:11 am
by iranzi
deletes
Re: The Problem With Trombone Players
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 9:50 am
by WilliamLang
Thanks for the thoughts - I do not think it has anything to do with DEI initiatives. The organization was around well before that was a buzz word - I think it's more to do with the conservatism of classical music in general, and the idea that Astral is looking for a product more than following their own mission statement of helping young people.
iranzi wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 4:15 am
WilliamLang wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2024 2:08 pm
When I did big solo competitions for all instruments like Concert Artists Guild or Astral Artists, I'd always hit this point where I was a finalist, or even won the playing round (at Astral twice) but was denied a spot on the roster. When I asked, I mostly just got told "You play trombone." and that was the end of it, unless they made a comment about my weight or appearance, which was always fun.
OMG!!!
i always feel really sorry for the musicians undergoing such treatment...
Must be part of these institutions' policy of «commitment to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion» + a way of boosting artists’ confidence and self esteem by way of a «positive impact».
Right now Astral Artists are busy «closing it’s doors» in a «thoughtful and compassionate» way
https://tinyurl.com/kk93uxhu &
https://tinyurl.com/4awzc47d
(Thank god i don't have to deal with anyone that has power over my music making. Apart from my neighbours — they do have some limited power over my practice schedule
)
Re: The Problem With Trombone Players
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:12 am
by Kbiggs
iranzi wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 4:56 am
Wasn't able to find the lady's name in the original post's photo, or whether she was a trombone player.
But stumbled upon this fascinating article
https://tinyurl.com/5mrtd55y
about (white) women brass soloists in the 19th & early 20th centuries. Many trombone photos, especially from p.65 (although may not be strictly relevant to this thread's discussions)
Some of the pictures in that article tell another story: how these women persevered, how they learned to play on par with with their male colleagues at a time when Western society’s gender roles were more rigid, and some of them—if the pictures show their playing conditions—played while
wearing corsets.
Re: The Problem With Trombone Players
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:53 am
by iranzi
deleted
Re: The Problem With Trombone Players
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:14 am
by sf105
It's a good rant with a meaningful core. To me, an obsession with kit is for some part of the process of getting good enough to not care about it. It takes experience to become truly fluent, and part of that is likely to include finding the kit that works for you -- and there's stuff out there that definitely doesn't. I've found that I've learned something new about my playing with each new horn. It's like the old "Just tongue and blow" line, which works after you've done all the obsessive groundwork to be able to ignore the mechanics. I guess the catch is that not everyone gets to the next stage.
On the other hand, I did see Bud Herseth experimenting with mouthpieces during a concert at the Royal Festival Hall. Apparently he used to travel with a trunk full of stuff.
Re: The Problem With Trombone Players
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:48 am
by sirisobhakya
Good and suitable equipments allow one to play music easier. Bad or unsuitable equipments make one preoccupied with playing them, not music.
Re: The Problem With Trombone Players
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:35 am
by tbdana
sirisobhakya wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:48 am
Good and suitable equipments allow one to play music easier. Bad or unsuitable equipments make one preoccupied with playing them, not music.
The thing is, there is a plethora of good and suitable equipment. It's everywhere. Thousands of musicians play on a variety of such rigs just fine. It's not a difficult search. And if it becomes difficult, that's a big, flashing, red sign that the equipment is not the problem.
Re: The Problem With Trombone Players
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:44 am
by sirisobhakya
tbdana wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:35 am
sirisobhakya wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:48 am
Good and suitable equipments allow one to play music easier. Bad or unsuitable equipments make one preoccupied with playing them, not music.
The thing is, there is a plethora of good and suitable equipment. It's everywhere. Thousands of musicians play on a variety of such rigs just fine. It's not a difficult search. And if it becomes difficult, that's a big, flashing, red sign that the equipment is not the problem.
I would have to disagree, at least partially. I once tried 13 bass trombones almost back to back, and there were only 2-3 that I liked. The rest have issues here and there and some really bothered me, for example a very heavy slide, a bad balance, or a dull, unresponsive sound. Can I sound reasonably good on them? Yes. But do I feel happy playing them? Not quite.
Criteria for “suitable” equipments varies from person to person. And being picky or being a gearhead is not a bad thing as long as it does not impede one’s playing and does not hurt one’s wallet excessively. It’s the force that drives innovations and the industry. And it’s fun to talk about as well.
And at least if one tries enough, one can realize that which problem lies in the equipment and which problem lies in him/herself. If one does not try, he/she will keep wondering that the problem lies in the equipment.
Re: The Problem With Trombone Players
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:56 pm
by iranzi
sirisobhakya wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:44 am
tbdana wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:35 am
The thing is, there is a plethora of good and suitable equipment. It's everywhere. Thousands of musicians play on a variety of such rigs just fine. It's not a difficult search. And if it becomes difficult, that's a big, flashing, red sign that the equipment is not the problem.
I would have to disagree, at least partially. I once tried 13 bass trombones almost back to back, and there were only 2-3 that I liked. The rest have issues here and there and some really bothered me, for example a very heavy slide, a bad balance, or a dull, unresponsive sound. Can I sound reasonably good on them? Yes. But do I feel happy playing them? Not quite.
Criteria for “suitable” equipments varies from person to person. And being picky or being a gearhead is not a bad thing as long as it does not impede one’s playing and does not hurt one’s wallet excessively. It’s the force that drives innovations and the industry. And it’s fun to talk about as well.
And at least if one tries enough, one can realize that which problem lies in the equipment and which problem lies in him/herself. If one does not try, he/she will keep wondering that the problem lies in the equipment.
I wonder how singers deal with this... They can only remove themselves to a different acoustic environment.
Or use a different mic. Or become really good at sound processing... Could be a great diversion for a trombone gearhead: gaining a much wider sound palette. Plus the auto-tune!
Re: The Problem With Trombone Players
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2024 2:05 am
by LeTromboniste
That's one thing I like about there being just like 3 really legit makers of the instrument I play whose instruments are played at the top tiers of the field, including one that's just too expensive for my wallet. And each of them has only one or two models. Even if we want to be gearheads, there's not so many options.