Air exiting bell

How and what to teach and learn.
User avatar
elmsandr
Posts: 1085
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:43 pm
Location: S.E. Michigan
Contact:

Re: Air exiting bell

Post by elmsandr »

Basbasun wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:11 am
This is a good demonstation of the subject. The air flow from the bell is very slow.
Does airspeed matter with respect to viral transmission?

Cheers,
Andy
User avatar
JohnL
Posts: 1896
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:01 am
Contact:

Re: Air exiting bell

Post by JohnL »

elmsandr wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:08 amDoes airspeed matter with respect to viral transmission?
I would think that it relates to how far virus material will travel, particularly larger droplets.
brumpone
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 1:26 am

Re: Air exiting bell

Post by brumpone »

An organisation in the UK just released some results they hope will inform government policy: https://www.bbe.org.uk/news/04082020-16 ... ch-results
User avatar
BGuttman
Posts: 6371
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
Location: Cow Hampshire

Re: Air exiting bell

Post by BGuttman »

That's a great study. The one thing we need to determine yet is how relatively contagious aerosols are versus droplets. I'm pretty sure there is a difference.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
RoscoTrombone
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:04 am
Location: Bonnyrigg (near Edinburgh) Scotland

Re: Air exiting bell

Post by RoscoTrombone »

I've just read this with great interest and the covers look like a potential win in the short term but I'm wondering how they affect the sound?

I also see you can get them for wind instruments too which is great however the poor old flute loses out again. I wonder what the experiment would show there?
User avatar
BGuttman
Posts: 6371
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
Location: Cow Hampshire

Re: Air exiting bell

Post by BGuttman »

Much more air goes over the flute than through it (I'm talking a transverse flute here; not a recorder). When playing the flute you are projecting the droplets a lot. Probably only exceeded by sneezing.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
User avatar
Oslide
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:13 am
Location: Switzerland, BL

Re: Air exiting bell

Post by Oslide »

I don't know whether this is the appropriate thread to cite this article because it's not directly related to "air exiting the bell", but it's a new study about the transmission of airborne droplets and aerosols, and as such may be of interest to readers of this thread, and beyond.

S. Balachandar et al.
Host-to-host airborne transmission as a multiphase flow problem for science-based social distance guidelines.

Full article here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2220305498
Ceterum censeo to fetch All of TTF
CharlieB
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:51 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Air exiting bell

Post by CharlieB »

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2220305498
A classic example of how to kill a fly with a sledgehammer.
I questioned who would pay for such a complicated analysis of how far a sneeze droplet travels.
These guys........
International Journal of Multiphase Flow
https://www.elsevier.com/journals/inter ... ss-options
Well, they don't actually pay. They charge a fee for others to post on their site.
Must be a Covid effect.......scientists and engineers with way too much free time on their hands

Maybe we should challenge one of these guys to design a trombone with partials that stack perfectly with no slide adjustment. That should keep 'em busy for awhile.
User avatar
BGuttman
Posts: 6371
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
Location: Cow Hampshire

Re: Air exiting bell

Post by BGuttman »

Sorry, air flow and acoustics are two entirely different fields, especially at the PhD level.

There are now multiphysics programs (Comsol, CFD) that can make analysis of air flow with or without droplets relatively easy.

I don't think anybody has yet harnessed the multiphysics programs to musical instrument tone production, but if anybody has it's probably Yamaha.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
CharlieB
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:51 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Air exiting bell

Post by CharlieB »

Bruce, I think you took my comment too literally. I probably should have phrased it differently.
It was intended to be a jibe at those in our (engineering) profession who make simple problems unnecessarily complicated.
Post Reply

Return to “Teaching & Learning”