Vintage Conn Bass Trombones - pictures, specifications, characteristics. Who played them?

WGWTR180 · Post by **WGWTR180** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:49 am

BGuttman wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:38 am Would a 70H with tuning in the bell really be more like a 72H? I realize that a 72H has a lot more bracing in the bell section.

No.

SwissTbone · Post by **SwissTbone** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:20 am

FOSSIL wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:27 am
cozzagiorgi wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:43 am

now I see it.
I should have been a bit more forthcoming.... it's a 1934 70H that has been totally reworked in the style of Earl Williams. No curved hand brace as I don't like them. German valve, J bend tuning, lightweight slide, wide bottom bow. Every joint resoldered. How does it play ?
Stupidly well !!! Way better than the stock incarnation... many hours of work, but worth it. I left all the small bruises in and have not buffed it... I think that is cool in a rat-rod sort of way.

Chris

Sounds like an interesting setup!

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:58 am

BGuttman wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:38 am Would a 70H with tuning in the bell really be more like a 72H? I realize that a 72H has a lot more bracing in the bell section.

I get what you mean. This very different from a 72H... the slide is 62H length and the bell section also the length of 62H types. J bend and bell are a light gold brass. Valve is nickel silver. Stay work is unique. Slide is lightweight and wide. leadpipe is original. What Conn could have made but didn't.

Chris

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:01 pm

A little more visual information....

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:04 pm

And more....

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:14 pm

Slide top finish...

Savio · Post by **Savio** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:37 pm

Thats the one you showed me in Oslo Chris. I remember it, but the light weight slide, how did you make that? The inner slide is original but the out slide?

Leif

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:47 pm

Savio wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:37 pm Thats the one you showed me in Oslo Chris. I remember it, but the light weight slide, how did you make that? The inner slide is original but the out slide?

Leif

When you take off all the TIS parts and the oversleeves, you get a light slide... the original outers are really thin. All original parts except the bottom bow, which is a modern Conn part.

Chris

eatanick · Post by **eatanick** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:11 pm

How do the short slide/long bell examples of the 70H (non Fuchs) typically compare to the later long slide 70H? Do you know
their respective production periods?

I own a complete 70H from the 50s (long slide, short bell) and a second 70H bell section. It has a much longer J bow and the valve wrap is nearly the same but with slightly different proportions. I'm assuming the long bell section is older, but without the slide, there's no serial number to date it. To be honest, I struggle to get the complete 70H up to pitch, so switching to the longer bell is a no-go with the already long slide, but it's fun to experiment with!

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:27 am

While I'm taking photos, here's the Minick/Conn 62H
in Bb/F/G/Eb

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:29 am

In Bb/F/Gb/D

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:32 am

In Bb/F/E/C

Finetales · Post by **Finetales** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:06 am

That E slide is awesome.

WGWTR180 · Post by **WGWTR180** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:18 am

Fossil you're killing me!!!!

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:27 pm

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:18 am Fossil you're killing me!!!!

Thought I would.... see what happens when you buy a new gas torch !

Chris

imsevimse · Post by **imsevimse** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:41 am

FOSSIL wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:32 amIn Bb/F/E/C

Just curious about that tuning. On my Olds P-24G I have the optional Eb/D slide for the second valve. It makes the options for the horn Bb/F/Eb/C or Bb/F/D/B. I have never tried an independent with the second valve in E, but how is the outcome Bb/F/E/C possible? How come that setup is not becoming more close to Bb/F/E/C#?

/Tom

biggiesmalls · Post by **biggiesmalls** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:09 pm

It's really great to see all these historical Conns and hear the owner's impressions of them. Very interesting and informative thread. That Minick 62H is killing me too...

Here's a 1950's Elkhart 72H converted to open wrap by Chuck McAlexander at Brasslab. Great player acquired from DJ Kennedy's studio. DJ acquired in trade from a NYC pro player but can't remember who exactly. Nice even blow and lots of that 1950's thin bell flavor. Check out the half moon engraving! Just listed in classifieds.

jeremyesmith · Post by **jeremyesmith** » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:43 pm

Here are some articles and pictures of my 1970 Conn 62H that was modified back in January.

Original instrument (FYI, it is NOT for sale) - https://www.lastrowmusic.com/1970-conn- ... -trombone/

Modification process - https://www.lastrowmusic.com/category/project-bmi62/

sf105 · Post by **sf105** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:24 am

FOSSIL wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:03 am Hopefully I have attached a couple of shots of the 70H.
Chris

Is that with Bill's Zircomium mouthpiece?

Beethoven · Post by **Beethoven** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:34 pm

What is the average selling price of a Conn 71H in fair condition?

hyperbolica · Post by **hyperbolica** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:31 pm

Beethoven wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:34 pm What is the average selling price of a Conn 71H in fair condition?

If you search eBay, 3 sales come up, with the average around $1000, only considering the model number and sale price.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:50 pm

imsevimse · Post by **imsevimse** » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:53 am

Nice horn HawaiiTromboneGuy

If I stumble on such a horn I might consider to buy. There are still a few on my whishlist.

/Tom

WGWTR180 · Post by **WGWTR180** » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:07 am

jeremyesmith wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:43 pm Here are some articles and pictures of my 1970 Conn 62H that was modified back in January.

Original instrument (FYI, it is NOT for sale) - https://www.lastrowmusic.com/1970-conn- ... -trombone/

Modification process - https://www.lastrowmusic.com/category/project-bmi62/

So how did this turn out from a playing standpoint? Can you compare from original to conversion?
Thanks.

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:07 pm

So much spare time at the moment.....

SwissTbone · Post by **SwissTbone** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:07 am

FOSSIL wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:07 pm So much spare time at the moment.....

Did you put a Hagmann valve on one of your Conns? How did it turn out?

SwissTbone · Post by **SwissTbone** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:17 am

Here is a nice Conn 70H from 1948:

SwissTbone · Post by **SwissTbone** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:18 am

And one from 1937:

I had Haag trombones make new slide inners for this one. At the correct length of course.

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:32 am

cozzagiorgi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:07 am
FOSSIL wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:07 pm So much spare time at the moment.....
Did you put a Hagmann valve on one of your Conns? How did it turn out?

No, that's a Rath. The middle one is the new toy.... modern 62H slide converted to tis by John Sandhagen.. it had an extra cross brace but was very heavy, so I modified it , removing the brace and moving the curved brace up and connecting the threaded rod to the hand brace. Works for me. Bell section got a new old valve that seals, open wrap and every joint redone, even though John had already done that. The Conn weight is marmite... people either love it or hate it, but it does the job.

Chris

sf105 · Post by **sf105** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:39 am

@cozzagiorgi, is the 1937 the one that someone from Spain was selling a while ago? Cool Deco engraving.

Kbiggs · Post by **Kbiggs** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:37 am

http://imgbox.com/kl0NLPaj

From this pic, it looks there is room for an E slide. The braces/posts are a different style. Did one come with the horn?

SwissTbone · Post by **SwissTbone** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:56 am

sf105 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:39 am @cozzagiorgi, is the 1937 the one that someone from Spain was selling a while ago? Cool Deco engraving.

No.

It just sold to a monster player in a symphony orchestra in Holland. I am very happy that this horn went to such a great player and looking forward actually hearing it live - if I can make it to Holland.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:34 pm

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:37 am http://imgbox.com/kl0NLPaj

From this pic, it looks there is room for an E slide. The braces/posts are a different style. Did one come with the horn?

That pic you quoted is with the E slide. It came with the horn along with the F slide.

biggiesmalls · Post by **biggiesmalls** » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:04 am

For anyone who is in the mood and has the means, this was just posted by Dillon's: https://reverb.com/item/36611921-used-c ... -sn-158075

jacobgarchik · Post by **jacobgarchik** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:58 am

Bass or Tenor? (Erwin Price, using it for Stravinsky's Soldier's Tale, usually played on tenor.)

Erwin-Price.jpg

imsevimse · Post by **imsevimse** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:27 pm

jacobgarchik wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:58 am Bass or Tenor? (Erwin Price, using it for Stravinsky's Soldier's Tale, usually played on tenor.)

Erwin-Price.jpg

Looks like a TIS trombone but don't recognize the wrap. The angle makes it difficult. What Conn tenor had tuning in slide at that time?

/Ton

jacobgarchik · Post by **jacobgarchik** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:34 pm

There are some more glimpses of it in the video.
Not sure which model number this would equate to if it was a tenor. There are early TIS trigger tenors but they look like they had flat wraps.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn80H1924image.html
But these horns are so uncommon maybe each one was different.
This one could be a special order. Like a 76H with a trigger.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn76H1924image.html
Could also be a Holton.

imsevimse · Post by **imsevimse** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:39 pm

jacobgarchik wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:34 pm8
There are some more glimpses of it in the video.
Not sure which model number this would equate to if it was a tenor. There are early TIS trigger tenors but they look like they had flat wraps.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn80H1924image.html
But these horns are so uncommon maybe each one was different.
This one could be a special order. Like a 76H with a trigger.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn76H1924image.html
Could also be a Holton.

It could be a 14h? I'm thinking of the small early bass Conn 14h. Chris might know this.

/Tom

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:51 pm

imsevimse wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:39 pm
jacobgarchik wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:34 pm8
There are some more glimpses of it in the video.
Not sure which model number this would equate to if it was a tenor. There are early TIS trigger tenors but they look like they had flat wraps.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn80H1924image.html
But these horns are so uncommon maybe each one was different.
This one could be a special order. Like a 76H with a trigger.
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn76H1924image.html
Could also be a Holton.
It could be a 14h? I'm thinking of the small early bass Conn 14h. Chris might know this.

/Tom

My 14H is a flat wrap, and his instrument has a later style wrap but that instrument looks like it has Conn style TIS ....could be a Conn...no way I could be sure though. It is some kind of tenor though not a bass...not a modern bass anyway.

Chris

jacobgarchik · Post by **jacobgarchik** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:08 pm

Also looks kind of newish for 1955, both the wrap and the lacquer. But 1955 is late for TIS tenor trombones altogether. Not sure when Conn stopped making TIS tenors.

imsevimse · Post by **imsevimse** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:40 am

FOSSIL wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:51 pm
imsevimse wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:39 pm
It could be a 14h? I'm thinking of the small early bass Conn 14h. Chris might know this.

/Tom
My 14H is a flat wrap, and his instrument has a later style wrap but that instrument looks like it has Conn style TIS ....could be a Conn...no way I could be sure though. It is some kind of tenor though not a bass...not a modern bass anyway.

Chris

I have searched the Internet sites of trombones and their history and there apparently did exist a Conn 80h that was tenor sized and had TIS, and the later ones might have had that wrap design. If someone could post a picture of such a horn we might solve this. It is not a modern bass trombone so it might not really belong to the subject "Vintage Conn bass trombones.." but at the time it was made it could have been used as a bass. Anyhow, could still be interesting (I'm the OP) and this thread already has had some post about this strange (presumably) Conn trombone.

/Tom

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:28 am

jacobgarchik wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:58 am Bass or Tenor? (Erwin Price, using it for Stravinsky's Soldier's Tale, usually played on tenor.)

Erwin-Price.jpg

Some frame grabs from the video - the best resolution is 480p, so there's not much detail there:

Image3.jpg

Image2.jpg

Image1.jpg

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:22 pm

biggiesmalls wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:04 am For anyone who is in the mood and has the means, this was just posted by Dillon's: https://reverb.com/item/36611921-used-c ... -sn-158075

So I ended up getting this horn. Funny thing is, I was in contact with Adam the day before it was posted here trying to see if they would be able to ship it via USPS priority as the only option shown at checkout was UPS which was running $229+ for ground shipping.

Anyways, here’s some additional photos of the horn. It has a 9” red brass bell and measures at .596” at the soldered on stockings. Couple of interesting things I noticed are the nickel silver outer tubes, guard on the F tuning slide, and the rotor being opposite of how it’s normally installed. Also, the pointy triangular bar mechanism used to actuate the valve.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:31 pm

Those look like soldered on stockings, so the bore of the slide is probably a bit smaller than the bore at the stockings. Sweet horn though, how does it play?

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:34 pm

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:31 pm Those look like soldered on stockings, so the bore of the slide is probably a bit smaller than the bore at the stockings. Sweet horn though, how does it play?

You’re right. I hadn’t thought about that. Haven’t played it yet. Just got delivered and the first thing I did was take photos instead of playing

Post by **BGuttman** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:14 pm

My first F-attachment horn, an Olds Ambassador, had the rotor installed like that. Also, a school owned King Symphony that I played in High School. So "upside down" valves were not that uncommon.

I wound up making a guard from an old plastic 35 mm film container to put over the mechanism so I didn't chafe my chin too badly.

Very interesting horn. Enjoy it.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:29 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:14 pm My first F-attachment horn, an Olds Ambassador, had the rotor installed like that. Also, a school owned King Symphony that I played in High School. So "upside down" valves were not that uncommon.

I wound up making a guard from an old plastic 35 mm film container to put over the mechanism so I didn't chafe my chin too badly.

Very interesting horn. Enjoy it.

Good idea. It definitely rubs my neck when valve is in use.

HawaiiTromboneGuy · Post by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:29 pm

Some vintage bell comparisons:

mrdeacon · Post by **mrdeacon** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:28 pm

That triangle mechanism on the new horn is super neat!

So what's the difference between the bell throats on all three of these? The middle one is the Fuchs right?

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:42 pm

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:28 pm That triangle mechanism on the new horn is super neat!

I'll point out that this same mechanism is on the early 20th century Kruspe that swisstbone has up in another thread. Very interesting.

Oh, also I love the little tiny guard on the F attachment tuning slide. Never seen that before!!