Quote from: dj kennedy on Jun 08, 2009, 09:10AMi had a buyer for this one[before the kid got hip to the w] //also for israe butler's just in case it didnt fit
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sams old gold and silver was pretty lite in the bell //compared to a tennesse i had at same time
i can see why certain bells would be for certain jobs
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Did he buy your 6, DJ? The one I played in Cape Girardeau?
I think you took this video, didn't you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAHczuq3kZI
Earl Williams Trombone
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ttf_DaveAshley
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ttf_dj kennedy
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Earl Williams Trombone
no way --the 6 i have -the flare is heavier than most of the 6s i have seen
bruces and moncellis are both lighter /
some schmelzers have that same familiar = unfamiliar learning thing
======
had a minick 100h //pipes were ''different'' --didnt lie the curvy hand brace either '
but the blow /feel ///vibe was great
Quote from: DaveAshley on Jun 08, 2009, 10:11AMDid he buy your 6, DJ? The one I played in Cape Girardeau?
I think you took this video, didn't you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAHczuq3kZI
bruces and moncellis are both lighter /
some schmelzers have that same familiar = unfamiliar learning thing
======
had a minick 100h //pipes were ''different'' --didnt lie the curvy hand brace either '
but the blow /feel ///vibe was great
Quote from: DaveAshley on Jun 08, 2009, 10:11AMDid he buy your 6, DJ? The one I played in Cape Girardeau?
I think you took this video, didn't you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAHczuq3kZI
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ttf_CharlieB
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Koz on Jun 07, 2009, 09:34PMThe protype Kanstul 1606 (the first horn made) is owned by a player here in Chicago. It is a fantastic playing horn. The bell is the lightest bell offered by Kanstul for the 1606. It has a nickel slide.
Thanks, Koz.
I seem to remember that this horn received a lot of acclaim as a good Williams clone when it was first made.
That suggests that the Williams 6 was a light horn, maybe with a fairly bright voice, and fast response ???
Subject, of course, to the variations resulting from Earl's moods, daily problems, and customer whims. Sam Burtis said that he plated his Williams to settle it down a bit. That also seems consistent with a light horn.
Quote from: sabutin on Jun 08, 2009, 04:24AMThey were fantastic instruments. Real singers. I have never played a "dog" Earl Williams...not that I doubt that they might exist, especially after 40 or 50+ years of possible meddling... nor have I ever played a bad Wallace Williams.
Hilarious?
How many pages of hilarious do we have here?
18?
Hmmmmm....
Some were lighter than others.
Some were reputedly buffed down even further to fit a very light LA studio approach.
Others were treated to Herrick leadpipes.
But even after not playing mine for 7 or 8 years, when I picked up the one that Isrea Butler bought recently and played it, that "Williams" feel was right there.
It's not "hype" if more than about 3 really serious players loved it.
Dick Nash.
Jack Teagarden.
Billy Byers.
Off the top of my head.
So maybe Earl wasn't the greatest businessman. Irascible is the word that comes to mind after hearing Jimmy Knepper speak of him. (I can relate...) Or maybe he was unwilling to make the compromises that inevitably come with expansion. But "hype"?
I think not.
"Hero" sounds more like it.
Later...
S.
P.S. I have played a number of Kanstuls. Good horns. But I have never played one that sang like a good Earl Williams 6. Never. And yes, I do think that it's in the metal.
P.P.S. Irascible? Jimmy told me that Earl wouldn't even tell his own son his horn-making secrets. Sounds like one of those Japanese sword makers.
The Earl Williams Katana model.
Played exclusively by Musashi Miyamoto.
Like dat!!!
Sam,
Thanks for the great input.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you liked the Williams because of its sound. "Real singers," you said. (I'm not sure what a singer is.) You also referred to the "Williams feel." My personal definition of feel is how easily I can make a horn produce the variety of sounds that are in my head, and how well the horn gives me feedback to verify my efforts. Is this what you like about the Williams feel?
Somewhere in the archives of this forum, there is a post where you said that the trombone is a clumsy instrument, not well suited to rapid articulations. All we have is our sound. Is that what the Williams is all about? Its sound?
Thanks, Koz.
I seem to remember that this horn received a lot of acclaim as a good Williams clone when it was first made.
That suggests that the Williams 6 was a light horn, maybe with a fairly bright voice, and fast response ???
Subject, of course, to the variations resulting from Earl's moods, daily problems, and customer whims. Sam Burtis said that he plated his Williams to settle it down a bit. That also seems consistent with a light horn.
Quote from: sabutin on Jun 08, 2009, 04:24AMThey were fantastic instruments. Real singers. I have never played a "dog" Earl Williams...not that I doubt that they might exist, especially after 40 or 50+ years of possible meddling... nor have I ever played a bad Wallace Williams.
Hilarious?
How many pages of hilarious do we have here?
18?
Hmmmmm....
Some were lighter than others.
Some were reputedly buffed down even further to fit a very light LA studio approach.
Others were treated to Herrick leadpipes.
But even after not playing mine for 7 or 8 years, when I picked up the one that Isrea Butler bought recently and played it, that "Williams" feel was right there.
It's not "hype" if more than about 3 really serious players loved it.
Dick Nash.
Jack Teagarden.
Billy Byers.
Off the top of my head.
So maybe Earl wasn't the greatest businessman. Irascible is the word that comes to mind after hearing Jimmy Knepper speak of him. (I can relate...) Or maybe he was unwilling to make the compromises that inevitably come with expansion. But "hype"?
I think not.
"Hero" sounds more like it.
Later...
S.
P.S. I have played a number of Kanstuls. Good horns. But I have never played one that sang like a good Earl Williams 6. Never. And yes, I do think that it's in the metal.
P.P.S. Irascible? Jimmy told me that Earl wouldn't even tell his own son his horn-making secrets. Sounds like one of those Japanese sword makers.
The Earl Williams Katana model.
Played exclusively by Musashi Miyamoto.
Like dat!!!
Sam,
Thanks for the great input.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you liked the Williams because of its sound. "Real singers," you said. (I'm not sure what a singer is.) You also referred to the "Williams feel." My personal definition of feel is how easily I can make a horn produce the variety of sounds that are in my head, and how well the horn gives me feedback to verify my efforts. Is this what you like about the Williams feel?
Somewhere in the archives of this forum, there is a post where you said that the trombone is a clumsy instrument, not well suited to rapid articulations. All we have is our sound. Is that what the Williams is all about? Its sound?
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ttf_sabutin
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: CharlieB on Jun 08, 2009, 11:18AM---snip---
Sam,
Thanks for the great input.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you liked the Williams because of its sound. "Real singers," you said. (I'm not sure what a singer is.) You also referred to the "Williams feel." My personal definition of feel is how easily I can make a horn produce the variety of sounds that are in my head, and how well the horn gives me feedback to verify my efforts. Is this what you like about the Williams feel?
Somewhere in the archives of this forum, there is a post where you said that the trombone is a clumsy instrument, not well suited to rapid articulations. All we have is our sound. Is that what the Williams is all about? Its sound?
Sound, attacks, feedback...especially feedback...easy, open blow (thus easy rapid articulation) and projection were the reasons that I liked (and continue to like) Earl Williams horns.
Why not continue to play one?
Well, number one I wanted a little more mass of sound. A little more density. remember, I was playing lead with Tito Puente and Tito-style big bands then as a large part of my work (As I still do.), and brother..."mass" and "density do not begin to describe that brass style. Now that is fairly easy to get with any number of equivalently sized horns...great Bachs, great Kings...but the Bachs didn't project the way that I wanted them to project and Kings have holes in their blow with which I am unwilling (Unable?) to deal. (The new ones are better in that department, I think, but this was 15+ years ago.) Plus I was also playing larger horns by choice as a solo instrument ('30s TIS Conns) and trying to blend with general business NY commercial players as well. (At which task the Williams was great.) Since I couldn't find a really good Williams 8 I really wanted some consistency as I went back and forth. Several years into that conundrum I picked up a .525 Shires at one of the NYC Brass Conferences, liked it so much that I used it on a concert that evening and I was hooked. Steve started to make smaller instruments soon after that and the next thing I knew my problem was solved, my Williams was living in England, my TIS Conns were living in the attic and my Dave Taylor-altered Holton bass was back with its original owner.
So it goes.
As a fine young Chinese student once said to me as I was driving him through the ex-urban, petroleum-polluted wasteland swamps of New Jersey to take him to Dillon's, "I am one lucky Chinese person!!!"
I am just one lucky trombonist, I guess.
A stubborn one, anyway.
So it goes.
Later...
S.
Sam,
Thanks for the great input.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you liked the Williams because of its sound. "Real singers," you said. (I'm not sure what a singer is.) You also referred to the "Williams feel." My personal definition of feel is how easily I can make a horn produce the variety of sounds that are in my head, and how well the horn gives me feedback to verify my efforts. Is this what you like about the Williams feel?
Somewhere in the archives of this forum, there is a post where you said that the trombone is a clumsy instrument, not well suited to rapid articulations. All we have is our sound. Is that what the Williams is all about? Its sound?
Sound, attacks, feedback...especially feedback...easy, open blow (thus easy rapid articulation) and projection were the reasons that I liked (and continue to like) Earl Williams horns.
Why not continue to play one?
Well, number one I wanted a little more mass of sound. A little more density. remember, I was playing lead with Tito Puente and Tito-style big bands then as a large part of my work (As I still do.), and brother..."mass" and "density do not begin to describe that brass style. Now that is fairly easy to get with any number of equivalently sized horns...great Bachs, great Kings...but the Bachs didn't project the way that I wanted them to project and Kings have holes in their blow with which I am unwilling (Unable?) to deal. (The new ones are better in that department, I think, but this was 15+ years ago.) Plus I was also playing larger horns by choice as a solo instrument ('30s TIS Conns) and trying to blend with general business NY commercial players as well. (At which task the Williams was great.) Since I couldn't find a really good Williams 8 I really wanted some consistency as I went back and forth. Several years into that conundrum I picked up a .525 Shires at one of the NYC Brass Conferences, liked it so much that I used it on a concert that evening and I was hooked. Steve started to make smaller instruments soon after that and the next thing I knew my problem was solved, my Williams was living in England, my TIS Conns were living in the attic and my Dave Taylor-altered Holton bass was back with its original owner.
So it goes.
As a fine young Chinese student once said to me as I was driving him through the ex-urban, petroleum-polluted wasteland swamps of New Jersey to take him to Dillon's, "I am one lucky Chinese person!!!"
I am just one lucky trombonist, I guess.
A stubborn one, anyway.
So it goes.
Later...
S.
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ttf_CharlieB
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Earl Williams Trombone
QuoteAs a fine young Chinese student once said to me as I was driving him through the ex-urban, petroleum-polluted wasteland swamps of New Jersey to take him to Dillon's, "I am one lucky Chinese person!!!"
Sam,
Thanks for the laugh.
You made my day.
That's great stuff.
What a joy to be downwind of the landfills and the refineries along the NJ Turnpike on a hot day!!!
Quote from: sabutin on Jun 08, 2009, 12:08PMSound, attacks, feedback...especially feedback...easy, open blow (thus easy rapid articulation) and projection were the reasons that I liked (and continue to like) Earl Williams horns.
Why not continue to play one?
Well, number one I wanted a little more mass of sound. A little more density. remember, I was playing lead with Tito Puente and Tito-style big bands then as a large part of my work (As I still do.), and brother..."mass" and "density do not begin to describe that brass style. Now that is fairly easy to get with any number of equivalently sized horns...great Bachs, great Kings...but the Bachs didn't project the way that I wanted them to project and Kings have holes in their blow with which I am unwilling (Unable?) to deal. (The new ones are better in that department, I think, but this was 15+ years ago.) Plus I was also playing larger horns by choice as a solo instrument ('30s TIS Conns) and trying to blend with general business NY commercial players as well. (At which task the Williams was great.) Since I couldn't find a really good Williams 8 I really wanted some consistency as I went back and forth. Several years into that conundrum I picked up a .525 Shires at one of the NYC Brass Conferences, liked it so much that I used it on a concert that evening and I was hooked. Steve started to make smaller instruments soon after that and the next thing I knew my problem was solved, my Williams was living in England, my TIS Conns were living in the attic and my Dave Taylor-altered Holton bass was back with its original owner.
Thanks a million, Sam, for taking the time to post the good info.
Now I know why these old Williams horns sell for almost as much as a brand new Shires.
I have a .500 Hopedale with LW nickle slide, LW unsoldered bell, and one of the new 1.5 tuning slides.(Tried those yet?) Betcha that horn's pretty close to an old Earl.
Thanks again.
Charlie
>> BFW: fixed quote format
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ttf_KINGJIGG1943
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Earl Williams Trombone
Whats that ol' saying...."They weapon doesn't make the man"....
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ttf_Exzaclee
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Earl Williams Trombone
just makes the man deadly...
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ttf_DaveAshley
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: KINGJIGG1943 on Jun 13, 2009, 03:02AMWhats that ol' saying...."They weapon doesn't make the man"....
Yep, not even if Carl Fontana used to play it.....
Yep, not even if Carl Fontana used to play it.....
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ttf_CharlieB
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: KINGJIGG1943 on Jun 13, 2009, 03:02AMWhats that ol' saying...."They weapon doesn't make the man"....
I would counter that with another cliche. "You don't show up at a gun fight armed with a knife."
More to the point; I can buy fine French wine, or "Wine in a Box." Both will quench my thirst, but only one will provide satisfaction. I feel much more satisfied playing a fine trombone than a poor one.
So, the natural question was; why do so many accomplished musicians on this forum feel that the Williams falls in the fine French wine category?
Sam Burtis was kind enough to provide a very insightful answer.
Thank you again, Sam.
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ttf_paulthetrombonist
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Earl Williams Trombone
I made a video for anyone interested where I compare my Shires and Williams.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js45cvU6jY0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js45cvU6jY0
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ttf_SilverBone
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Earl Williams Trombone
I like the way you sound on the Williams better. It's a more complicated, more interesting sound.
And I'm biased to like Shires equipment since that's what I play!
If I told you I liked the Shires better, would you sell me the Williams?
And I'm biased to like Shires equipment since that's what I play!
If I told you I liked the Shires better, would you sell me the Williams?
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ttf_CharlieB
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: jazztrbn77 on Jun 16, 2009, 09:55PMI made a video for anyone interested where I compare my Shires and Williams.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js45cvU6jY0
Great demonstration, Paul.
Many thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js45cvU6jY0
Great demonstration, Paul.
Many thanks
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ttf_sharman
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Earl Williams Trombone
Well, I think everyone has to go to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Earl-Williams-Custom-Bb-Bass-Trumpet_W0QQitemZ180370720918QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090619?IMSfp=TL0906191710001r35000
to see a bit of a jaw-dropper...
What do you all think???
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Earl-Williams-Custom-Bb-Bass-Trumpet_W0QQitemZ180370720918QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090619?IMSfp=TL0906191710001r35000
to see a bit of a jaw-dropper...
What do you all think???
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ttf_Richard Tadaki
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Earl Williams Trombone
Hey! Thanks for the info Sharman!!!
If I was younger and thought I could learn to play it and put it to use I'd go for it... Oh yeah, and if I could afford it. I suspect it'll take some serious buck to win that auction, but I guess you never know. -
ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
That Bass Trumpet seems very promising!
BTW Speaking of .500 bores, I found a Williams 7 in the world today. About how many of those did they make? Only other horn that I have seen with a small bore and F was a Silvertone 2b. Wonder how it handles.
BTW Speaking of .500 bores, I found a Williams 7 in the world today. About how many of those did they make? Only other horn that I have seen with a small bore and F was a Silvertone 2b. Wonder how it handles.
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ttf_MoominDave
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: bachbone on Jun 22, 2009, 07:06PMThat Bass Trumpet seems very promising!
BTW Speaking of .500 bores, I found a Williams 7 in the world today. About how many of those did they make? Only other horn that I have seen with a small bore and F was a Silvertone 2b. Wonder how it handles.
I have a G/D bass with a .485" slide bore and .500" rotor bore. The D side is stuffy...
BTW Speaking of .500 bores, I found a Williams 7 in the world today. About how many of those did they make? Only other horn that I have seen with a small bore and F was a Silvertone 2b. Wonder how it handles.
I have a G/D bass with a .485" slide bore and .500" rotor bore. The D side is stuffy...
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ttf_Richard Tadaki
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Earl Williams Trombone
Wow, Dave! Who made that horn?
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ttf_Richard Tadaki
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: bachbone on Jun 22, 2009, 07:06PM
BTW Speaking of .500 bores, I found a Williams 7 in the world today. About how many of those did they make? Only other horn that I have seen with a small bore and F was a Silvertone 2b. Wonder how it handles.
Hi Koda. Is the 7 available for sale?
BTW Speaking of .500 bores, I found a Williams 7 in the world today. About how many of those did they make? Only other horn that I have seen with a small bore and F was a Silvertone 2b. Wonder how it handles.
Hi Koda. Is the 7 available for sale?
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ttf_MoominDave
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Richard Tadaki on Jun 23, 2009, 02:00AMWow, Dave! Who made that horn?
Hawkes & Son of London, c.1923. But... I'm pretty certain that it was originally built as a straight G - the valve arm is stamped 'Paxman', as in the French horn makers, so presumably the valve was added later.
It's a nice instrument, but I don't find too many opportunities to deploy it...
Hawkes & Son of London, c.1923. But... I'm pretty certain that it was originally built as a straight G - the valve arm is stamped 'Paxman', as in the French horn makers, so presumably the valve was added later.
It's a nice instrument, but I don't find too many opportunities to deploy it...
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ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Sorry everyone, but the 7 isn't for sale. (not even mine) and I don't want the owner to get emails upon emails to see if he is selling his horn, because he is not. He is the Adjunct Professor of Trombone and Euphonium University of Minnesota-Twin Cities. I will invite him to the forum to share his wisdom about his trombone and experiences.
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ttf_Richard Tadaki
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: MoominDave on Jun 23, 2009, 02:12AMHawkes & Son of London, c.1923. But... I'm pretty certain that it was originally built as a straight G - the valve arm is stamped 'Paxman', as in the French horn makers, so presumably the valve was added later.
It's a nice instrument, but I don't find too many opportunities to deploy it...
Hmm, interesting history on your bass trumpet. I hope you get to play it more often. It sounds like it would be a fun thing to do.
Quote from: bachbone on Jun 23, 2009, 09:26AMSorry everyone, but the 7 isn't for sale. (not even mine) and I don't want the owner to get emails upon emails to see if he is selling his horn, because he is not. He is the Adjunct Professor of Trombone and Euphonium University of Minnesota-Twin Cities. I will invite him to the forum to share his wisdom about his trombone and experiences.
I wonder if the professor realizes how rare his 7 is? John Noxon said, "The 7 I only know of about 5... " It would be nice to hear what the prof has to say about it.
The Williams bass trumpet is still sitting at $509 but there's still 2 days 9 hrs left in the auction. I wonder if the seller is going to get his reserve?
It's a nice instrument, but I don't find too many opportunities to deploy it...
Hmm, interesting history on your bass trumpet. I hope you get to play it more often. It sounds like it would be a fun thing to do.
Quote from: bachbone on Jun 23, 2009, 09:26AMSorry everyone, but the 7 isn't for sale. (not even mine) and I don't want the owner to get emails upon emails to see if he is selling his horn, because he is not. He is the Adjunct Professor of Trombone and Euphonium University of Minnesota-Twin Cities. I will invite him to the forum to share his wisdom about his trombone and experiences.
I wonder if the professor realizes how rare his 7 is? John Noxon said, "The 7 I only know of about 5... " It would be nice to hear what the prof has to say about it.
The Williams bass trumpet is still sitting at $509 but there's still 2 days 9 hrs left in the auction. I wonder if the seller is going to get his reserve?
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ttf_lingon
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: bachbone on Jun 22, 2009, 07:06PM...Only other horn that I have seen with a small bore and F was a Silvertone 2b. Wonder how it handles.
Not a Williams but a 0.485 with F attachment, Selmer Special. Plays great even in the valve register.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=180351157688
Not a Williams but a 0.485 with F attachment, Selmer Special. Plays great even in the valve register.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=180351157688
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ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: lingon on Jun 23, 2009, 12:10PMNot a Williams but a 0.485 with F attachment, Selmer Special. Plays great even in the valve register.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=180351157688
If only it had a Thayer...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=180351157688
If only it had a Thayer...
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ttf_ETbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Please forgive me if I missed this in earlier posts (I did actually read the whole thread...), but what kind of bead to Williams horns have? Is it soldered or no?
I haven't played one in a good while and was just wondering. I just played on a Mt. Vernon 16 the other day with a french bead and it was by FAR the best 16 I've ever laid hands on. I'm certain there were other factors.
I haven't played one in a good while and was just wondering. I just played on a Mt. Vernon 16 the other day with a french bead and it was by FAR the best 16 I've ever laid hands on. I'm certain there were other factors.
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ttf_lingon
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: bachbone on Jun 23, 2009, 01:43PMIf only it had a Thayer...
It does only require a bit of surgery...
It does only require a bit of surgery...
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ttf_bachbone
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ttf_Bach42BOS
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Earl Williams Trombone
this thread has been dead for quite some time now... any interesting news?
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ttf_dj kennedy
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Earl Williams Trombone
i have sales for 6s and 4s
if there were any available
if there were any available
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ttf_Joel Felberg
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: dj kennedy on Jul 03, 2009, 05:39AMi have sales for 6s and 4s
if there were any available
I'm not interested in selling mine, I'm just interested in what the fair market value is for a 6 right now.
if there were any available
I'm not interested in selling mine, I'm just interested in what the fair market value is for a 6 right now.
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ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Joel Felberg on Jul 03, 2009, 06:36PMI'm not interested in selling mine, I'm just interested in what the fair market value is for a 6 right now.
Is it a burbank? LA? TN? (anything else)?
That sure does change the price on one of these. Every brand has their sweet manufacturing place.
Bach - NY
King - HN White
Conn - Elkhart
Williams - Burbank
Is it a burbank? LA? TN? (anything else)?
That sure does change the price on one of these. Every brand has their sweet manufacturing place.
Bach - NY
King - HN White
Conn - Elkhart
Williams - Burbank
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ttf_Richard Tadaki
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: dj kennedy on Jul 03, 2009, 05:39AMi have sales for 6s and 4s
if there were any available
Hi dj,
Can you put me on your list for a 4 and a 9?
Aloha,
Richard
if there were any available
Hi dj,
Can you put me on your list for a 4 and a 9?
Aloha,
Richard
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ttf_Joel Felberg
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: bachbone on Jul 03, 2009, 06:54PMIs it a burbank? LA? TN? (anything else)?
That sure does change the price on one of these. Every brand has their sweet manufacturing place.
Bach - NY
King - HN White
Conn - Elkhart
Williams - Burbank
It's a Burbank, SN 1101.
That sure does change the price on one of these. Every brand has their sweet manufacturing place.
Bach - NY
King - HN White
Conn - Elkhart
Williams - Burbank
It's a Burbank, SN 1101.
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ttf_DaveAshley
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
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ttf_Bach42BOS
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Richard Tadaki on Jul 03, 2009, 07:01PMHi dj,
Can you put me on your list for a 4 and a 9?
Aloha,
Richard
You can put me in line for the same too lol!!
Can you put me on your list for a 4 and a 9?
Aloha,
Richard
You can put me in line for the same too lol!!
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ttf_Doug Elliott
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Earl Williams Trombone
I have a TN 4 that I played when I was in the Note. I might be willing to sell it... probably not though, it's a great horn and I might want to go back to it sometime. I don't sell horns, for that reason.
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ttf_Chris Fidler
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:41 pm
Earl Williams Trombone
I have a TN 6 in fantastic condition.
Also a great playing horn.
I'd only sell if somebody offered me the right price.
A lot
Also a great playing horn.
I'd only sell if somebody offered me the right price.
A lot
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ttf_anonymous
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- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm
Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Chris Fidler on Jul 04, 2009, 12:58PMI have a TN 6 in fantastic condition.
Also a great playing horn.
I'd only sell if somebody offered me the right price.
A lot
Are thier any design or production differences in Burbank and TN 6's? I only own a few parts of TN horns and never got to play a complete one.
Also a great playing horn.
I'd only sell if somebody offered me the right price.
A lot
Are thier any design or production differences in Burbank and TN 6's? I only own a few parts of TN horns and never got to play a complete one.
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ttf_Chris Fidler
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:41 pm
Earl Williams Trombone
My TN 6 has a normal water key and Williams etched on the upper part of my outer slide.
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ttf_Doug Elliott
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: RepublicanTbone76 on Jul 04, 2009, 02:04PMI only own a few parts of TN horns and never got to play a complete one.
What parts do you have?
What parts do you have?
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ttf_RepublicanTbone76
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Doug Elliott on Jul 04, 2009, 09:07PMWhat parts do you have?
My 7 is a horn a bought from a guy who turned a TN Williams 6 into a 7. The bell is original, the bell section is made of kanstul parts that are designed after the 7. I understand they make a copy of the 7 but I have never seen one. The slide seems all original except the fact it has a regular spit valve. I thought this was after market but as Chris told me a few posts ago, this was usual for TN horns. I also own a 10 bell that I bought from the same gentleman who brokered my deal for the other parts. From what I understand, the 10 bells were almost stock Conn 72H bells that were finished by Earl and Bob Williams. The bell I have was supposed to have been a bell than was left over from the CA years that made the move to TN. I personally can not tell any difference between this bell and a stock 72H except it has no engraving. I simply call my 10 a 10 because of the bell. The rest of it is all Conn 71 and 72 parts. Nothing special there.
My 7 is a horn a bought from a guy who turned a TN Williams 6 into a 7. The bell is original, the bell section is made of kanstul parts that are designed after the 7. I understand they make a copy of the 7 but I have never seen one. The slide seems all original except the fact it has a regular spit valve. I thought this was after market but as Chris told me a few posts ago, this was usual for TN horns. I also own a 10 bell that I bought from the same gentleman who brokered my deal for the other parts. From what I understand, the 10 bells were almost stock Conn 72H bells that were finished by Earl and Bob Williams. The bell I have was supposed to have been a bell than was left over from the CA years that made the move to TN. I personally can not tell any difference between this bell and a stock 72H except it has no engraving. I simply call my 10 a 10 because of the bell. The rest of it is all Conn 71 and 72 parts. Nothing special there.
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ttf_dj kennedy
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Earl Williams Trombone
ben griffin has been blowing a 485 [ or so] shires for longer than his usual
experimental test flights
interesting that the model 4 is in demand
especially in beginning of july
with all that banging noise and smoke
Quote from: Doug Elliott on Jul 04, 2009, 09:57AMI have a TN 4 that I played when I was in the Note. I might be willing to sell it... probably not though, it's a great horn and I might want to go back to it sometime. I don't sell horns, for that reason.
experimental test flights
interesting that the model 4 is in demand
especially in beginning of july
with all that banging noise and smoke
Quote from: Doug Elliott on Jul 04, 2009, 09:57AMI have a TN 4 that I played when I was in the Note. I might be willing to sell it... probably not though, it's a great horn and I might want to go back to it sometime. I don't sell horns, for that reason.
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ttf_Richard Tadaki
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: RepublicanTbone76 on Jul 04, 2009, 09:26PM... I also own a 10 bell that I bought from the same gentleman who brokered my deal for the other parts. From what I understand, the 10 bells were almost stock Conn 72H bells that were finished by Earl and Bob Williams. The bell I have was supposed to have been a bell than was left over from the CA years that made the move to TN. I personally can not tell any difference between this bell and a stock 72H except it has no engraving. I simply call my 10 a 10 because of the bell. The rest of it is all Conn 71 and 72 parts. Nothing special there.
Interesting stuff. Have you had a chance to compare your 10 against a stock Conn 71H or 72H? I understand that Earl started making bass bones by buying raw 72H bells from Conn, then working his magic on it so that the 10's blew quite differently from a 72H. It would be interesting to see how much difference there is between your 10 bell with 71 and 72 parts and a stock 72H. If there is a huge difference, it might be because of Earl's work on the bell. It wouldn't be a conclusive experiment but it would probably tell us a lot.
Aloha,
Richard
You've done what I had been hoping to do -- find a 10 bell and build a bass bone around it using 72H parts.
Interesting stuff. Have you had a chance to compare your 10 against a stock Conn 71H or 72H? I understand that Earl started making bass bones by buying raw 72H bells from Conn, then working his magic on it so that the 10's blew quite differently from a 72H. It would be interesting to see how much difference there is between your 10 bell with 71 and 72 parts and a stock 72H. If there is a huge difference, it might be because of Earl's work on the bell. It wouldn't be a conclusive experiment but it would probably tell us a lot.
Aloha,
Richard
You've done what I had been hoping to do -- find a 10 bell and build a bass bone around it using 72H parts.
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ttf_RepublicanTbone76
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Richard Tadaki on Jul 05, 2009, 03:02AMYou've done what I had been hoping to do -- find a 10 bell and build a bass bone around it using 72H parts.
I have to be honest and say that the bell is not all that great. I would say it plays like a heavier 72 bell. Of course I am not much of a bass player. It definatly plays like a Conn, feels like a Conn and sounds like a Conn.
From what I understand there are unused 10 bells out there. Bob Williams finished some 10 bells that never got put on horns and when the company was sold, these bells went to TN. Since no 10's were made in TN, I can only assume these bells were transfered to Callicio (I think that is how you spell it). They may own them or at least know where they are. I can not believe the guy who owned the company in TN would have thrown them away. So if you have any connections with the current owners and have the money they may part with one. I have no idea and do not really know who owns the company now.
I have to be honest and say that the bell is not all that great. I would say it plays like a heavier 72 bell. Of course I am not much of a bass player. It definatly plays like a Conn, feels like a Conn and sounds like a Conn.
From what I understand there are unused 10 bells out there. Bob Williams finished some 10 bells that never got put on horns and when the company was sold, these bells went to TN. Since no 10's were made in TN, I can only assume these bells were transfered to Callicio (I think that is how you spell it). They may own them or at least know where they are. I can not believe the guy who owned the company in TN would have thrown them away. So if you have any connections with the current owners and have the money they may part with one. I have no idea and do not really know who owns the company now.
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ttf_DaveAshley
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Earl Williams Trombone
Earl didn't make bass bells. They were Conn bells.
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ttf_RepublicanTbone76
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: DaveAshley on Jul 05, 2009, 05:41AMEarl didn't make bass bells. They were Conn bells.
You are right. He did not own the mandrels to make a bass bell, but as the person before mentioned, he bought the bells "raw" and unfinished. He altered the bells in some way. The 72H horn I bought the same time when I aquired the bell had a much lighter bell than the one that was finished by Williams. The Williams looks like a Conn with no ingraving. So essentially it is a Conn. Does the fact Williams "finished" it means anything? I also do not know if it was finished by Earl or Bob. Who knows.
I would love to talk to someone who owned a complete 10 and compare bells. I also understand Ed Klienhammer had a horn made with a Williams 10 bell. I heard it was on a Holton or something. Anyone heard of that?
You are right. He did not own the mandrels to make a bass bell, but as the person before mentioned, he bought the bells "raw" and unfinished. He altered the bells in some way. The 72H horn I bought the same time when I aquired the bell had a much lighter bell than the one that was finished by Williams. The Williams looks like a Conn with no ingraving. So essentially it is a Conn. Does the fact Williams "finished" it means anything? I also do not know if it was finished by Earl or Bob. Who knows.
I would love to talk to someone who owned a complete 10 and compare bells. I also understand Ed Klienhammer had a horn made with a Williams 10 bell. I heard it was on a Holton or something. Anyone heard of that?
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ttf_HouBassTrombone
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Earl Williams Trombone
I have seen pictures of that horn and he talked about it during a masterclass he did at my school. I think there may be pictures on the MySpace page.
-Z
-Z
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ttf_Doug Elliott
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Earl Williams Trombone
There is apparently a lot of VERY inaccurate and incorrect information being tossed around here by people who THINK they know what they're talking about. I asked my friend Jay Armstrong about the 10's - he and his wife (at the time) were the ones who built Williams horns in Tennessee.
They received only one Model 10 bell when they bought the company; there was no collection of older bells; they passed that one 9-1/2" raw bell, and Jay's own complete Model 10 horn, on to Calicchio when they sold the company. Earl made his model 10 bells on his own mandrel; only a few very early 10's may have had Conn bells. Jay thinks Earl may have made as many as 20 or 30 Model 10's.
All of the TN bells were made by a bell maker whose name I don't know; Jay and his wife made every part except bells, and they did all of the assembly. About ten Model 10 bells were made during that time, on Earl's original Model 10 bell mandel; they were stamped with the Donelson TN label on the bell tail. Those were raw bells and were not assembled. They were transferred to Calicchio, and I don't know where they might be now.
The later TN horns had a water key of Jay's design which he patented. My Model 4 has that key.
They received only one Model 10 bell when they bought the company; there was no collection of older bells; they passed that one 9-1/2" raw bell, and Jay's own complete Model 10 horn, on to Calicchio when they sold the company. Earl made his model 10 bells on his own mandrel; only a few very early 10's may have had Conn bells. Jay thinks Earl may have made as many as 20 or 30 Model 10's.
All of the TN bells were made by a bell maker whose name I don't know; Jay and his wife made every part except bells, and they did all of the assembly. About ten Model 10 bells were made during that time, on Earl's original Model 10 bell mandel; they were stamped with the Donelson TN label on the bell tail. Those were raw bells and were not assembled. They were transferred to Calicchio, and I don't know where they might be now.
The later TN horns had a water key of Jay's design which he patented. My Model 4 has that key.
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ttf_RepublicanTbone76
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Doug Elliott on Jul 05, 2009, 10:47PMThey received only one Model 10 bell when they bought the company; there was no collection of older bells; they passed that one 9-1/2" raw bell, and Jay's own complete Model 10 horn, on to Calicchio when they sold the company. Earl made his model 10 bells on his own mandrel; only a few very early 10's may have had Conn bells. Jay thinks Earl may have made as many as 20 or 30 Model 10's.
He made only 12 complete 10's. I have also heard from multiple sources he used Conn bass bells. 72H bells to be specific. I also know that when the ITA convention was in Nashville a few people took a trip to Donelson to see the Williams stuff. I have multiple people saying they saw a "stack" (6 or 7) 10 bells. They even made them an offer and Jay would not sell.
http://www.myspace.com/williamstrombones
check out the section on the 10's. The information about the 10's being modified Conn bells is there.
He made only 12 complete 10's. I have also heard from multiple sources he used Conn bass bells. 72H bells to be specific. I also know that when the ITA convention was in Nashville a few people took a trip to Donelson to see the Williams stuff. I have multiple people saying they saw a "stack" (6 or 7) 10 bells. They even made them an offer and Jay would not sell.
http://www.myspace.com/williamstrombones
check out the section on the 10's. The information about the 10's being modified Conn bells is there.
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ttf_Exzaclee
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:53 am
Earl Williams Trombone
Doug knows Jay, i'd be willing to bet his info could possibly be more accurate than what's on the website... anyone care to follow up?
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ttf_RepublicanTbone76
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Exzaclee on Jul 06, 2009, 08:24AMDoug knows Jay, i'd be willing to bet his info could possibly be more accurate than what's on the website... anyone care to follow up?
I am not by any means saying Jay is lying. I am simply saying that from multiple sources the same numbers keep occurring. Not only from this website, but from many other Williams aficionados who all seem to concure that only 12 complete 10's were made and the bells were of Conn origin. I believe two are owned by a gentleman in LA with a considerable Williams collection and I recently discovered another from a forum member, who shall remain nameless, who owns a complete 10 and was kind enough to contact me and share info on bells. I told him that his horn belongs in a museum!
I am not by any means saying Jay is lying. I am simply saying that from multiple sources the same numbers keep occurring. Not only from this website, but from many other Williams aficionados who all seem to concure that only 12 complete 10's were made and the bells were of Conn origin. I believe two are owned by a gentleman in LA with a considerable Williams collection and I recently discovered another from a forum member, who shall remain nameless, who owns a complete 10 and was kind enough to contact me and share info on bells. I told him that his horn belongs in a museum!