Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:01 am

Quote from: savio on Jun 26, 2009, 04:01PM
That's an interesting thought. I did always believe that what is most comfortable to play is the best. But I believe what Mr. Bach say is true. One thing is how it feels, another thing is what goes out the bell. Chris, when I try my best regular Bach it actually feels easier to play but the MT Vernon is complete different in sound. What I'm little afraid of is the sound is too diffuse on my MT Vernon.

I post two bordogni etudes with my Conn and my yamaha. I know its dangerous to do but remember its practice for me. Not made for performing. And rhythm is very bad, I know. Also intonation here and there is no good. But what I want to know is the sound. I have not played the Conn for a 2 weeks so I make it very comfortable not perfect. So don't listen for making something perfect but tell me if this sound is what you can get from a MT Vernon? But anyway since Im stupid enough to post them say what you think. Im a teacher anyway so I dont loose anything. The first link is my Yamaha, the second is my Conn. I tried the Additional options to upload it but did have some big problems. It doesnt work.

Leif
http://www.mediafire.com/?zmmizy0gnlc
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d79b8206360f2c08d2db6fb9a8902bda

First off Leif, you make a great basic sound. You sell yourself short... it's good playing. You ask me about the mouthpiece, but play me two different trombones, so it's the trombones that I notice.
You sound a little different on each. The Conn is more contained and controlled... the only thing with it, is that you don't like the valve register as much as the Yamaha... but it's a great sound with good control.
The Yamaha sounds bigger but has that diffuse quality in the middle register... that's for you to control... we all have to work extra hard for focus in that register... think sound center all the time. The Yamaha has a great attack and is obviously easier on the valves, but it can tend toward tubby. Hearing you play, I know you can correct the spread of sound on the Yamaha, you just have to realize that the job is yours, not that of the instrument or mouthpiece.
It would be nice if you could get a result that contained the best of both instruments... but that is the whole point of my observation here... you are trying to play both trombones the same way, when you need to adjust to each to get the most out of them. They can both sound great, but only when you have realized their strengths and weaknesses and worked to get the best out of them. The Yammy needs a little more air in mid range, but more focus at the lip at the same time. The Conn needs a little less air on the valve, and more focus in the low register than the Yammy.
Just my thoughts.
Chris Stearn

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:39 am

Thinking a little more... this is what equipment selection is all about... finding stuff that gets the results you want most easily.
Leif, I would love to hear you on a 9 1/2" bell Holton. I think you would find that easy.

Chris Stearn

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:06 am

Thanks! The valve register in the Yammy is very open. But my friends at work like the Conn and I also like this trombone most. So I think I use this from now on and use the Yammy only if I need it. It feels nearly to free blowing? No heaviness in the feel. Only heavy to hold. I can still play a B with my Conn if needed. For me the MT Vernon works good in both horns but maybe best in the Conn. I think you are right, I try to blow them both the same way. Maybe I try to force the Conn valve register to play like the Yammy. I think this will be better if I only play the Conn. You say less air in the valve register? I try to find out how. Thanks..

Holton you say. I know thats the horn for me. I look at Ebay every day. There was an 10 inch Holton some days ago but I didnt dear to hit the "buy" button.

Leif

ttf_gbedinger · Post by **ttf_gbedinger** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:49 am

Quote from: savio on Jun 27, 2009, 05:06AMHolton you say. I know thats the horn for me. I look at Ebay every day. There was an 10 inch Holton some days ago but I didnt dear to hit the "buy" button.

Sorry for the digression, but there's Minick conversion 180 on the Dillon website...sure would love to try that!

Chris, I have returned and will be putting some time on the Minick V.

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:36 am

Quote from: gbedinger on Jun 27, 2009, 05:49AMSorry for the digression, but there's Minick conversion 180 on the Dillon website...sure would love to try that!

Chris, I have returned and will be putting some time on the Minick V.

Wow !! That Minick lever/leadpipe sure puts the dollars on !!! It might indeed be nice. A good example, standard or modified is what you want. I think some days I prefer my stock 169 bell over my Herrick modified one... then on other days....

Hope you had a good time George and that the Minick is right for you... they all vary SO much... make Bachs look like a bunch of clones.... tried ones I hated, ones that were ok and one that I love !!!!

Chris Stearn

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:54 am

I did see it. WOW.... expensive? and Norwegian high taxes, Maybe worth it, I could sell the another ones. mmm......or the Yammy.

Leif

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:03 am

Quote from: savio on Jun 28, 2009, 02:54AMI did see it. WOW.... expensive? and Norwegian high taxes, Maybe worth it, I could sell the another ones. mmm......or the Yammy.

Leif

If I were to buy one of the Holtons from Dillons it would be the 185... never blown a bad one...some better than others though.
It's been there a long time, but you could ask Jose how it blows.

Chris Stearn

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:21 pm

I'm posting some more mp3 with my old Conn trombone. The valve register is still not better Chris. I'm waiting a Holton TR 180 soon from Joe Stanko, after some guiding from Chris I just bought it. Always wanted it. Waiting time is boring.

This is with another mouthpiece which I don't really feel I can control. Its a Conn Roberts mouthpiece but I can see there is done something with it. It feels a little strange to play.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d79b8206360f2c08d2db6fb9a8902bda

I made one with my MT Vernon today but it is not my best. Maybe because I did play this Conn mouthpiece yesterday. I still have problems in the valve register. Not so much playing these days.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d79b8206360f2c08d2db6fb9a8902bda

Anyway I dont practice so much these days so I should not do this. Timing is way out and intonation is not the best here and there. And to Sam if he read this tread, don't listen it. The timing will give you a chock. Sorry. I'm just a teacher doing my best but want to make it better if I can.

Leif

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:24 pm

Leif, I take it that you are talking about the Bach recordings on the 6th and 7th. There is much that is fine in them. You say yourself that the timing is not all it could be... mostly too much time over breath, but the sound and control are very good, except, as you say, the valve register. The second version is without doubt, better than the first, but these are detail differences.. you have your own sound and style that is always there and always good. I think you may be trying to do too much in the valve register... try and play Eb on the staff, then Eb below the staff, and move things as little as possible... just relax... no jaw drop or big lip movement... you may be surprised by better results from less effort.
I think you will like that Holton.
The M.V. sounds good.

Chris Stearn

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:59 pm

Thanks Chris, I maybe do to much in the valve register as you say. Its nearly like I want to have some lessons again. I look more at what you say tomorrow.
The New York post office is really slow. It was 4 days before they had the Holton in the air. Even slower than me...

Cheers Chris

ttf_boneagain · Post by **ttf_boneagain** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:09 pm

Hey, Savio,

How many trips to Scotland could you have bought for the price of one Holton

Actually, if you started commuting to take lessons with Chris, and since you ARE a committed 1 1/2G player, that would pretty much settle the "right mind" part of the Subject of this thread, wouldn't it?

The lessons idea is excellent. Even in my current level of dotage (nice word to look up in Google, then have it available when YOU are old enough to use it in a bunch of years) I really get a lot from the various master classes I can hit at a local university. You set a good model for the younger players: if we get too old to take lessons, we are likely too old to play. For my money, my teacher doesn't have to play better than me... he or she just needs to know something I don't... and everybody I've met up to now knows something I don't!

Enjoy that Holton!!!

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:33 am

Thanks Boneagain you have a lot of insight. Yes it could really have been interesting with some lessons again. And Chris is a very very interesting bass trombone player. I live in a place with not so many trombone players around. But there are not so long trip to Oslo or Bergen either. There are some good teachers there. I think I maybe get some bad habits into my playing after many years without a teacher. And there is always some new things to learn. Anyway I really agree with what you say.

My Holton will soon show up, I could see on internet its already in Norway. I did buy it from Joe Stanko here ion the forum and it will be my main horn. Its from 76 and looks very nice. Maybe tomorrow or the next day.

Leif

ttf_Slod · Post by **ttf_Slod** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:02 am

Ok. I have not read this thread because I have honestly never used a 1&1/3G until today... I have to so I'm a bigger mouthpiece guy (1G/60) and when I first played the 1&1/2 I fell in love with it... I can't stop playing on it... I'm actually thinking of staying on it for a bit and seeing if it might actually work for me! Just my thoughts on it. I have a bach with the BIG letters.

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:39 am

It doesent matter what letters there are on this Bach mouthpieces because they are all a little different anyway. If you like it you have probably been lucky and found a good one. All of these Bach 1 1/2g mouthpieces have a classical bass trombone sound I like very much.

Cant be easy to switch from a 60 size mouthpiece to this size so you have to use the time to help you. Or maybe it is easy for you? For some people its maybe easy. Chris Stearn have done it and if you read some of his posts there are some advices how to do this. He seem to be on holyday again but will show up sooner or later I think.

Leif

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:01 pm

Quote from: Slod on Jul 18, 2009, 09:02AMOk. I have not read this thread because I have honestly never used a 1&1/3G until today... I have to so I'm a bigger mouthpiece guy (1G/60) and when I first played the 1&1/2 I fell in love with it... I can't stop playing on it... I'm actually thinking of staying on it for a bit and seeing if it might actually work for me! Just my thoughts on it. I have a bach with the BIG letters.
Cool-Slod-glad to hear you're liking the above mentioned size. Read some of the posts-there's some great input on how to blow this size mouthpiece-maybe more than any other-

ttf_Thomas Matta · Post by **ttf_Thomas Matta** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:29 pm

Slod - stick with it for a couple/few weeks. You gotta resist the temptation to switch back to a Schilke 60 to give the 1.5 a fair test and evaluation!

ttf_Slod · Post by **ttf_Slod** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:06 pm

I will definitely start reading the posts when I get home tonight. I have a recital this week and I've been working the Ritter George with my 1G so I don't want to play with mouthpiece swapping before the recital. I will definitely spend a couple of weeks if not a month on the 1&1/2G.The 60 I rarely use. Only on my Yamaha bass which I barely play... I will read the posts and post back after I gain a little more time on the piece! Thanks or the input!

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:17 pm

Yes listen the two above trombonists Slod. They are both professionals players and are worth listening to. I think the most interesting posts in this tread are in the beginning.

I have got a new Holton TR-180 some days ago and have practiced a lot on this. Chris did mention I had to relax some in the valve register, and not stress so much to get the sound open.

Here is how the Holton sounds for me with my dear old Bach mouthpiece:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d79b8206360f2c08d2db6fb9a8902bda

I have tried to get it more relaxed and open and think I'm on the way with this old Holton. Anyway I like it so much and it is a joy to play. I also think my mouthpiece fits well in my "new" Holton.. Well, now I have everything I want. In the future I have to focus on the hard part: Practice......

Leif

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:25 pm

Chris ask in the first post of this tread if there are any room for the 1 1/2g. When I started to post in this tread I did say no. I did ask whats wrong with my Schilke 59. He say nothing is wrong with that. The answear did me to start think. I was curious and had to try it.

This was my first try with the 1 1/2g. Its two singers, piano, cello, and bass trombone.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d79b8206360f2c081686155677bb26851a292cadfb08eed0
This is a show where there are lot of noise and the recording is very simple. Two mics behind in the room. I'm a bit proud of this because I was the producer behind the hole show. The arr. is made by me also except "I'm your man"

Anyway I think the 1 1/2g should be played a lot more. Is the development of bigger mouthpieces a natural development? I believe its more a development that has gone a little bit out of the topic. Easier, more comfort, bigger sound? Maybe but we did loose that Mr. Bass trombone sound. I want it back.

Leif

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:39 pm

I was thinking a little and I did remove the files in the link above. There are other people playing and singing there and its maybe not so wise of me to put it here. And I think maybe most people are tired of my "1 1/2g playing". Its not the meaning to use this forum as a teacher/feedback either. I will take some lessons instead. Happy blowing all but find a good 1 1/2g. Thats the real bass trombone mouthpiece....

Cheers

Leif

ttf_LongmodelF · Post by **ttf_LongmodelF** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:32 pm

I keep a 1-1/2G in my armoury. Very useful mouthpiece

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:58 am

i feel a little shame about posting here again. I have posted to much. But I just have one little question to all of you.

I did have Schilke to make me a custom 58. Its a long time ago now but I did blow it today. (I remember the people at schilke was very kind and helpful and did do everything to make it the way I told them) Anyway this is a mouthpiece I never got to try so much because I got my MT Vernon and did forget it.

I did a bordogni etude today with both of them. Schilke 58 Custom and Bach MT Vernon 1 1/2g. I know you maybe are tired of my bordogni etudes but my simple question is which of them sound best? (I didn't write which of them are Schilke so you have to guess)

Here is the link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d79b8206360f2c08d2db6fb9a8902bda

Leif

ttf_lniehaus · Post by **ttf_lniehaus** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:35 am

4.mp3-more focused sound, a better ensemble mouthpiece.

4 2.mp3-you seemed more sure of yourself on this mouthpiece.
your range was better, both high and low.
a good soloist mouthpiece.

Niebone

ttf_Burgerbob · Post by **ttf_Burgerbob** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:38 am

I really like your sound, Savio.
The first one "bordogni4" had a lighter sound than "bordogni4 2", which seemed to have a lot behind it.
Which was which? I would think either would be a good choice, maybe depending on the situation. The first might be a better solo or small ensemble mouthpiece, but that's just conjecture.

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:31 am

Ah... I love blind tests... basically you sound like you on both recordings

There are small differences. I find 4 more compact but clearer, perhaps a little heavier. 42 is a slightly broader sound that is more complex but not quite as focused as 4. My gut feeling is that 4 is more likely the Schilke and 42 is the Bach, but I could well be wrong. Both sound good... and after a few weeks you will sound the same on either... which one gets you there most easily ?

Chris Stearn

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:48 am

Thanks for listening guys, Its not easy to trick Chris Stearn and he has right of course. 4 2 is the Bach. I did feel the Schilke was very good and easy to play when I did pick it up. But I got some problem in the end. Maybe because I got some tired. When I play the Bach after it I did feel more secure and safer. And the sound is nearly the same but some better with the Bach? The lower end of the register feel better with the Bach. But I was a little surprised by the Schilke. Not bad. I have a feeling this Schilke is very good and easy but I cant play any better with it. So I don't plan to change. Maybe the Schilke would have been as good as the Bach after some confusing weeks but I will not go through that "change" period again. The Bach get me the best result I think? Schilke it have to go in the box again. But I admit it was a "little doubt" long inside me for a moment.

Leif

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:57 am

I just did blow a little on another trombone, my Conn. Just to be sure. Both of them and that "little doubt" was gone. The Bach feels best for me.

Leif

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:03 pm

You should have kept us guessing

As I said, either would work well... I know some great players who use the Schilke 58... like Dave Stewart... listen to him on London Brass and be amazed !!
If the Bach feels right, it IS right. If that was the Holton trombone, it sounds great !! You are sounding more 'at home' with your playing on these most recent recordings... very nice indeed.

Chris Stearn

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:02 pm

Yes I should have been waiting, didn't think so far, but I have a feeling all would guess the same as you Chris.

But I didn't get a real answear about what mouthpiece all of you think would be best for me. Bob say both could suit me well in different settings and that the sound is good on both. Thanks Bob! Niebone say the same about different settings. But he also say more safe on the MT Vernon. I agree.

So what do you think people if it was you? What version would you choose?

And I will listen some more to Dave Stewart. I have London Brass here.

Leif

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:15 pm

Leif... whatever equipment allows you most easily to sound how YOU want to sound, and allows you to play with the least thought about process, is the best equipment for you. It took me most of my career to work that one out (I should post 'REVELATION... I'VE FINALLY CRACKED THE EQUIPMENT CODE !!!!!!!!'... but who cares about how long it took me to go for the easy life ?) and I look at all that wasted effort and laugh... and some people... no, LOTS of people, like to play stuff that they have to put lots of effort into... they feel that they have to earn their results with sweat and struggle.
Unless you choose really odd equipment, after a period of adjustment, you will sound like you.... but some setups leave you with lots of work to get there and others help you every inch of the way... look for the easy way.
It sounds like you are pretty much there.

Chris Stearn

ttf_nopos · Post by **ttf_nopos** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:05 pm

Sounds great, Leif

I think both pieces can work, but I'd stay with the Bach if I were you. Great sound and it seems to be a good fit for both you and the instrument. The result is some nice singing bassbone playing

Alf

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:29 am

Thanks Alf. I try to sing with the voice I have. There is not so much else to do inside the fjord where I live. And I believe Chris is right. My voice is my voice no matter what I do. It will be wasted effort like he say to just find out I'm still me after all. I think I have "cracked the equipment code for me" Now I have to crack the playing code. I will start on another school concert trip soon. Playing children songs.

This is off topic but I could read you get another instrument from Ola? Or did you by that expensive 169 at Dillon's? I think I have to get out from the Fjord and visit you some day?

Leif

ttf_nopos · Post by **ttf_nopos** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:24 am

Quote from: savio on Sep 25, 2009, 12:29AMThis is off topic but I could read you get another instrument from Ola? Or did you by that expensive 169 at Dillon's?

No not from Ola this time. I picked up a nice '76 TR-183 (the George Robers horn) in Stockholm earlier this year. Always been curious about this smaller 9" bell model. Nothing final about 169 yet, but I have good hope. It is expensive, but my brother did won the Lotto

Quote from: savio on Sep 25, 2009, 12:29AM I think I have to get out from the Fjord and visit you some day?

That would be nice

Alf

ttf_tbarh · Post by **ttf_tbarh** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:03 am

I vote for the Bach one,Leif !! But i am biased ofcourse

No seriously; Both versions have its merits!! The Schilke seems to be a tiny bit more focused , which ofcourse could mean that You could maintain the"composure" better when playing loud on the Bach !! ...On the other hand, since the Schilke has this penetrating quality (exaggerating a bit here maybe

)it might just provide the "bark" with less effort!!
Anyways, ....a tough call !!

BTW! ; What does the modification of the Schilke consist of??

Grattis med ny Holton forresten !!

Men det er jo ikke noen conn da

Trond

ttf_Tobbe · Post by **ttf_Tobbe** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:25 am

In my world the Bach (4 2.mp3 right?)is more centered in the sound.
It's all sound and meet all the way through.

On the Schilke you play a bit more out of tune... (eller surt som ni norrmän säger).

I would absolutely prefer the Bach sound in a section.

I agree with Chris, whatever Mp you chose, it's gonna be your sound n it anyways
Right now I could tell that you were more used to play the Bach

Just my input...

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:04 pm

I didn't have so much control in the Schilke mouthpiece because it was new for my lips. So you are right Tobbe. I could feel it when I did play. You should have seen that section I play in sometimes: Singer, piano and cello. And we often play for small children. That's a bit different from your section Tobbe?

You cant walk in there with a toilet mouthpiece and a monster horn. But it is very fun to play with them.

Trond, I dont remember so much about what I did ask for in that Custom Schilke, They had some advices for me to not change that and not change this, and in the end I don't know if they did change anything. He he....maybe I just got an ordinary Schilke 58 in the end. The people there was very service minded. I dont remember his name but he was really a nice guy and very fun too! Maybe they did trick me. Ha ha......maybe that's why they was so friendly?

No, I'm just joking and I can recommend the people at Schilke very much. Didn't cost so much either.

Leif

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:31 am

OK here is a real blind test. The playing is not good and is early in the morning with my Conn. I have to admit I'm no good on this trombone. its all very small mp3 and is just the beginning of an etude. I call them just 1,2,3,4,5. Made with all the mouthpieces I have. A Denis Wick 1al, Schilke 58, MT Vernon 1 1/2g, George Roberts MV, Bach 1 1/2g, And Tobbe close your ears for bad intonation, they all are

. And Chris wait some days with your answear. I know its your tread but.....The one that guess all correct win a trip to Hawaii. What I'm little afraid of is one of them sounds a little too diffuse.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d79b8206360f2c08d2db6fb9a8902bda

Leif

ttf_tbarh · Post by **ttf_tbarh** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:21 am

Wow !!

OK! I cant resist !!

1. lacking a little "X-factor" but warm ,typical bach style.. I guess V.Bach 1 1/2 G elkhart
I rate this as number 4 of the 5 excerpts!!

2. Brighter, borderline thin sounding . a little "lackluster" but clear! i guess Schilke 58
I rate this as number 5

3. NICE !! ...warm , singing!! I guess that this is my old MV 1 1/2G ... I rate this as a clear number 1 !!

(...and i will stand by my words even if I am guessing wrong brand

)

4. brighter again but better than no.2...I guess this is D.Wick 1AL
I actually rate this no.2

5. again a generic bach style sound.. Warm, (maybe slight fuzzy

) I guess GR model!!
I rate this no.3 !!

Running for cover !!........

Trond

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:00 am

You don't have to cover Trond.

On Friday I will give the answears, so if you are the only that guess you win a trip to Hawaii. If you are correct.........Interesting answear you gave! Please read this notice with very small letters:
"The trip to Hawaii must be financed by the winner"
The recordings are very boring indeed, I did a guess for my self, but the girls in Hawaii should be very nice all 1 1/2g players!

Good luck

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:38 pm

Quote from: tbarh on Sep 26, 2009, 09:21AMWow !!

OK! I cant resist !!

1. lacking a little "X-factor" but warm ,typical bach style.. I guess V.Bach 1 1/2 G elkhart
I rate this as number 4 of the 5 excerpts!!

2. Brighter, borderline thin sounding . a little "lackluster" but clear! i guess Schilke 58
I rate this as number 5

3. NICE !! ...warm , singing!! I guess that this is my old MV 1 1/2G ... I rate this as a clear number 1 !!

(...and i will stand by my words even if I am guessing wrong brand

)

4. brighter again but better than no.2...I guess this is D.Wick 1AL
I actually rate this no.2

5. again a generic bach style sound.. Warm, (maybe slight fuzzy

) I guess GR model!!
I rate this no.3 !!

Running for cover !!........

Trond

Trond! Thanks! Interesting answear you gave. The one you did think was the MT Vernon was Schilke 58 Custom.

1. is regular Bach. 2. is George Roberts MV 3. is Schilke. 4. is Denis Wick 1al 5. MT Vernon.

If I should guess all this I would probably done it wrong to. There are small differences but I feel most at home with the MT Vernon. The only thing I wonder if maybe the sound of it is a little to Baryton like? Too wide or uncentered? Some of the other like the George Roberts is more clear. Well I just have to practice to get it more clear if it is too foggy sound?

Anyway thanks for taking time to listen Trond. I know it was not so interesting stuff to listen at.

Leif

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:10 pm

When I look at this tread I feel I have spoiled it some. The interesting part is the first pages of it. I know Chris don't mind if I have used this tread to much but I think I have spoiled it some. I have learned a lot from it and it have change my attitude to bass trombone playing and how to make music on my instrument. In one word it did make me more interested in my trombone again.

The interesting and informative part for all bass trombone players is in the beginning. I think I have used it to much for my playing and my motivation to play my trombone.

I have moved it a long way from the original question and feel a little sorry about that. So for new readers go to page 1 and read from there.

Why this tread is popular is because the original question did ask a question about the direction the bass trombone is moving or developing. And also a question if this direction is for all bass trombone players like pro, amateur, beginners and more advanced players.

I think the first 15 pages cover a lot of what the bass trombone is, and what role and development it have been through since George Roberts did rule our world, It is not about a specific mouthpiece. It is about music, style, taste and how to make music for a the regular bass trombonist anywhere young or old, amateur or pro....

Anyway I still hope all can have some learning or informative use of this tread and I then suggest to go to the first 15-20 pages.

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:12 am

It's fine Leif....
You have introduced actual sounds to the discussion, and I think that is a great idea. I don't have the gear to record here so I won't enter into it myself, but this is still a good discussion.

Chris Stearn

ttf_second.chance · Post by **ttf_second.chance** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:38 am

Hi Leif--- I second that, dont worry yourself, you added to the discussion you did not detract or deviate from it - well done. Now those long winter nights will be arriving in Norway you have nothing better to do than play!!... Doug

ttf_tbarh · Post by **ttf_tbarh** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:00 pm

I third that , Leif !

Sounds is after all what it is all about, and this thread has kept me maintaining the interest in trying to emulate the crisp, clear, colourful and exciting sounds that some of the great bass trombone players of the world has etched in me.. I have however been lured to the darker side with the Laskey 85md , but trying some nice pieces at ITF in Århus(Thein BL , Greg Black 1 3/8g, some Rath and Shires pieces) i am convinced that soundwise I still belong within the 1 1/2g size region... Just wish i could find a piece with the ease of execution as om the laskey with a generic 1 1/2G sound... I wonder if following Doug Elliot`s advice on trying a bigger i.d. on a smaller cup also applies to bass trombone... ?

About the weather in Norway ; I have seen some signs the last days that the following period will be filled with Practicing, Bacalao, Lofoten-lamb, Strathisla, Springbank (or a smooth Islay or Aquavit if the weather will be really nasty) and maybe some mouthpiece testing and recordings... Maybe i too will make some blindfold tests!!

Trond

ttf_second.chance · Post by **ttf_second.chance** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:12 pm

Listening to you two almost makes me wish it was snowing already! My wife and I drove to the Nord Cape last year on our motorbike (in the summer) loved Norway, wonderful.

What an excuse for practising and note crunching! (on any mouthpiece!). Trond if you tried the Greg Black in Arhus, we must have met, I was on the Slidebone.com stand. Were you the guy with the lovely old Conn Bass Trombone?

Kindest regards... Doug

ttf_tbarh · Post by **ttf_tbarh** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:37 pm

Quote from: second.chance on Oct 03, 2009, 12:12PMListening to you two almost makes me wish it was snowing already! My wife and I drove to the Nord Cape last year on our motorbike (in the summer) loved Norway, wonderful.

What an excuse for practising and note crunching! (on any mouthpiece!). Trond if you tried the Greg Black in Arhus, we must have met, I was on the Slidebone.com stand. Were you the guy with the lovely old Conn Bass Trombone?

Kindest regards... Doug

Yes, i am him !!

It dawned on me when I saw Your avatar with GR !! I really like the idea of using the Kanstul bell section as a two valve alternative to my Conn !! Your horn was great!! ...ofcourse it helped to know that it had belonged to George Roberts !!

I really liked the G.Black 1 3/8G i tried at your stand... I know a player here that uses it and he may have one spare that i can try over some time...
Well, Doug !! If you drove through northern Norway with the beautiful weather they had up there this summer, You really got Your self a great experience... I have my ancestors up there and i have a constant urge to go up there in the summer, alas not this time!!
Nice to meet You BTW !

Trond

ttf_second.chance · Post by **ttf_second.chance** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:50 pm

Well Trond - as they say a small world!! I have a double valve bell section, I think I mentioned it at the time, not as good as the single but still a great playing horn none the less. If I get your way again I'll bring it. We have a cottage in Finland so we drive through Sweden to catch the overnight ferry from Stockholm, quite often - maybe I could deviate a bit on the route!!!

Talking of deviation, I'll get told off for going off subject if we keep this going, so better disappear now!

I'll PM you if I get a chance to come your way.

Doug

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:18 pm

Quote from: savio on Sep 26, 2009, 03:31AMOK here is a real blind test. The playing is not good and is early in the morning with my Conn. I have to admit I'm no good on this trombone. its all very small mp3 and is just the beginning of an etude. I call them just 1,2,3,4,5. Made with all the mouthpieces I have. A Denis Wick 1al, Schilke 58, MT Vernon 1 1/2g, George Roberts MV, Bach 1 1/2g, And Tobbe close your ears for bad intonation, they all are

. And Chris wait some days with your answear. I know its your tread but.....The one that guess all correct win a trip to Hawaii. What I'm little afraid of is one of them sounds a little too diffuse.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d79b8206360f2c08d2db6fb9a8902bda

Leif

I went to this link.

I must have waited too long, all I could hear was a couple versions of New York, one on a Bach 50 and one on a Holton?

Anyway, BRAVO! That is some really, really nice bass trombone work!!!!!!!!

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:16 pm

With the risk of being banned from this tread I do another post here with mp3 clips and all.
Chris, you don't have to answear this if you get some boring of all my posts

You have already been a lot of help for me and other 1 1/2g players here.

I did listen all my practice mp3 some time ago and did find the Greg Black 1 1/2g regular to be the best. So I did buy one. It was a time to wait but he have a lot to do these days. The mouthpiece did came to me two days ago with a nice email from Greg Black. He really is a nice man.

I can see in this tread Chris often point to this mouthpiece. My MT Vernon sounds maybe bigger I don't know, but when this mouthpiece was on my horn I could not take it away.

I give you some clips I made today. But with a warning. After two days on this I don't have control and the playing is very raw. But still it did feel good. There is some noise on one of them and that's my dog.

And Sammy you want to listen the Conn 72h. This is my take on it. Not a learning for our up growing students (if you listen there are nothing perfect there) but still this old trombone can make some fun for me.

And one strange thing is my Holton trombone is easier to play when I play the Conn most of the time. But of course for more heavy sound I play the Holton.

Anyway here is the link to my Mp3.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d79b8206360f2c08ab1eab3e9fa335ca9c84964099a02647

Leif

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:12 pm

I've just listened to the start of the first track.... It's you again Leif.... sorry, but the bone and mouthpiece make little difference...blow what you like... like how you sound.

Chris Stearn