Quote from: griffinben on Dec 17, 2013, 09:49AMFew people specifically ask for their horns/bells to be un-lacquered.
I personally haven't done a bunch of A-B testing of un-lacquered vs. lacquered horns; my feeling in my limited experience is that some of it is subjective but that there's some truth to it on specific horns/bells. I think you need to be a very sensitive player to perceive some of the differences. But I am ready to have my mind changed any time!
A lot of times when people do things to a horn they notice big differences because they haven't done maintenance in a while and all of a sudden a horn gets cleaned up (inside and out). Sometimes other things get sorted out too, like dents or alignment issues. Suddenly it's: "Hey, this plays great! Must be that I removed the lacquer!"
But, if the players feels there is a difference and is happy, then that's all that matters. Because you'll be happy with the instrument and the sound/response/whatever-else and stop thinking about the horn and concentrate on the art of making music, which is why we're all here (I hope!).
That's my experience, at least.
Ben
Interesting! I agree with your take on the placebo effect and its benefits. Thanks Ben!
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
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ttf_TromboneMonkey
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Bassbonebuster on Dec 18, 2013, 05:49AMA number of years ago, a gentleman at the Arkansas All-State had some Shires trombones with two tone bells. I have not seen them since. Did that catch on or fizzle out?
I would guess that was Newell Sheridan, of Sheridan brass! On the whole, I think the dual alloy bells have always been more of a niche product.
But two tone bells are out there and there are some people that really like them. They blend characteristics of the two different alloyss and can often work well as a "Goldielocks" bell for people searching for something in between: not too "this", not too "that", juuuust right. As far as I know, Newell is the only person that stocks them consistently and those are usually a combination of yellow and gold brass.
The exciting one to me... I've seen excellent results from RG bells (red stem, gold flare). I first encountered these at the shop and I've been very impressed with them, especially on bass trombone. It's not a Holton, but it is very interesting and colorful in a similar manner (to my ears). We've done a couple of tenor bells like this and I've liked them very much.
The biggest deterrent to dual alloy bells is that they are custom orders, and therefore non-returnable. A lot of people aren't willing to take the chance on something that isn't as common. That's probable the biggest reason why you don't see too many of them out there.
I hope that helps,
Ben
I would guess that was Newell Sheridan, of Sheridan brass! On the whole, I think the dual alloy bells have always been more of a niche product.
But two tone bells are out there and there are some people that really like them. They blend characteristics of the two different alloyss and can often work well as a "Goldielocks" bell for people searching for something in between: not too "this", not too "that", juuuust right. As far as I know, Newell is the only person that stocks them consistently and those are usually a combination of yellow and gold brass.
The exciting one to me... I've seen excellent results from RG bells (red stem, gold flare). I first encountered these at the shop and I've been very impressed with them, especially on bass trombone. It's not a Holton, but it is very interesting and colorful in a similar manner (to my ears). We've done a couple of tenor bells like this and I've liked them very much.
The biggest deterrent to dual alloy bells is that they are custom orders, and therefore non-returnable. A lot of people aren't willing to take the chance on something that isn't as common. That's probable the biggest reason why you don't see too many of them out there.
I hope that helps,
Ben
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ttf_BassBoneFL
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
FWIW, I'm one of the "freaks" who have they hybrid bells. As Ben mentioned, I was turned on to them by Newell Sheridan and despite my initial skepticism, really liked them.
I have a BII 7 with gold stem and yellow flare in medium weight. For me I find it provides the warmth/color of gold brass to the body of the note while having the clarity/immediacy of yellow brass at the front of the note.
I have a BII 7 with gold stem and yellow flare in medium weight. For me I find it provides the warmth/color of gold brass to the body of the note while having the clarity/immediacy of yellow brass at the front of the note.
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ttf_Bassbonebuster
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
It was Mr. Sheridan. I played on a set up he had with a dependent trubore valve that was a dream. I don't remember the rest of the specs, but I haven't played anything like it since. I have lofty dreams of getting fitted for a shires, but I have five kids to raise in the mean time. I'm sure my mid life crisis splurge will be a custom trombone instead of a sports cars! 
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ttf_daveyboy37
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Trombones are definitely cheaper than Sports cars, depreciate less, and you don't have to worry about your wife/kids "borrowing" it and rear ending someone when they forget to push in the clutch. Just overall a better investment, and take less in maintenance fees, require less detailing, etc.
As for the hybrid bells, they have always interested me. The issue I would have is that there's just so many options out there already, this adds another layer of things to worry about. It's like being at a buffet with too many options that are nearly identical. Of course if you like one-piece bells, they aren't really an option. Then you just need to worry about taper, gauge, rim wire, etc etc etc.
As for the hybrid bells, they have always interested me. The issue I would have is that there's just so many options out there already, this adds another layer of things to worry about. It's like being at a buffet with too many options that are nearly identical. Of course if you like one-piece bells, they aren't really an option. Then you just need to worry about taper, gauge, rim wire, etc etc etc.
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
QuoteAs for the hybrid bells, they have always interested me. The issue I would have is that there's just so many options out there already, this adds another layer of things to worry about. It's like being at a buffet with too many options that are nearly identical. Of course if you like one-piece bells, they aren't really an option. Then you just need to worry about taper, gauge, rim wire, etc etc etc.
Ah yes, the nearly infinite possibilities...they are staggering and might be paralyzing too!
There is good news, however.
The real news is that most people work really well on a handful of the options we offer. The tried and true designs that repeatedly rise to the top. It is only when the "normal" stuff doesn't work very well that we start to introduce some of the more, shall we say, exotic options.
The folks here at the shop have been at this a very long time, and we generally know what these options will effect. I often recommend things that may be a little off the beaten path (once we've exhausted other things) and feel very comfortable doing it.
So if you get to a point that you are confused, don;t worry! We are hear to help and are happy to do so.
-Ben
Ah yes, the nearly infinite possibilities...they are staggering and might be paralyzing too!
There is good news, however.
The real news is that most people work really well on a handful of the options we offer. The tried and true designs that repeatedly rise to the top. It is only when the "normal" stuff doesn't work very well that we start to introduce some of the more, shall we say, exotic options.
The folks here at the shop have been at this a very long time, and we generally know what these options will effect. I often recommend things that may be a little off the beaten path (once we've exhausted other things) and feel very comfortable doing it.
So if you get to a point that you are confused, don;t worry! We are hear to help and are happy to do so.
-Ben
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ttf_elmsandr
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: griffinben on Dec 18, 2013, 12:59PM... We are hear to help and are happy to do so.
-Ben
Solid pun, if that was your intention.
Back on topic, have you experimented at all with removable valves ala TR185 or Yamaha 6/822?
I have a single bass Trubore section that is awesome, but sometimes I just need a double...
Cheers,
Andy
-Ben
Solid pun, if that was your intention.
Back on topic, have you experimented at all with removable valves ala TR185 or Yamaha 6/822?
I have a single bass Trubore section that is awesome, but sometimes I just need a double...
Cheers,
Andy
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ttf_Bach42T
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Can anyone post a photo of a Shires with a sterling silver bell?
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ttf_SilverBone
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Bach42T on Dec 19, 2013, 05:16PMCan anyone post a photo of a Shires with a sterling silver bell?
Would a picture of a Shires with a Bach Sterling Plus bell count?
Would a picture of a Shires with a Bach Sterling Plus bell count?
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ttf_Gabe Langfur
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Bach42T on Dec 19, 2013, 05:16PMCan anyone post a photo of a Shires with a sterling silver bell?
Earl McIntyre in New York has a TruBore bass with a sterling bell. You can sort of tell in this picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/narratography-apj/8135229781/in/photostream/
Earl McIntyre in New York has a TruBore bass with a sterling bell. You can sort of tell in this picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/narratography-apj/8135229781/in/photostream/
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ttf_BGuttman
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Dec 20, 2013, 06:54AMEarl McIntyre in New York has a TruBore bass with a sterling bell. You can sort of tell in this picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/narratography-apj/8135229781/in/photostream/
I wanna know where he got that plunger! I want one of those!
I wanna know where he got that plunger! I want one of those!
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ttf_Matt K
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: SilverBone on Dec 20, 2013, 01:22AMWould a picture of a Shires with a Bach Sterling Plus bell count?
Oh man... I'd love to get my hands on a sterling 36 bell.
Oh man... I'd love to get my hands on a sterling 36 bell.
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: elmsandr on Dec 19, 2013, 04:57PMSolid pun, if that was your intention.
Back on topic, have you experimented at all with removable valves ala TR185 or Yamaha 6/822?
I have a single bass Trubore section that is awesome, but sometimes I just need a double...
Cheers,
Andy
Hi Andy,
Its been our observation that a dedicated single or double valve set just plain works better than a compromised adaptable system. It would take a lot of time to develop a bass set (particularly Tru-Bore) that functioned properly didn't look cobbled together. We would want to preserve the neckpipe and taper (which is one of the biggest advantages of a single valve bass) but that would make the horn dependent, and there's not much call for that these days. Especially not axial or Tru-Bore.
I hope that makes sense.
Ben
Back on topic, have you experimented at all with removable valves ala TR185 or Yamaha 6/822?
I have a single bass Trubore section that is awesome, but sometimes I just need a double...
Cheers,
Andy
Hi Andy,
Its been our observation that a dedicated single or double valve set just plain works better than a compromised adaptable system. It would take a lot of time to develop a bass set (particularly Tru-Bore) that functioned properly didn't look cobbled together. We would want to preserve the neckpipe and taper (which is one of the biggest advantages of a single valve bass) but that would make the horn dependent, and there's not much call for that these days. Especially not axial or Tru-Bore.
I hope that makes sense.
Ben
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ttf_Bach42T
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: SilverBone on Dec 20, 2013, 01:22AMWould a picture of a Shires with a Bach Sterling Plus bell count?
Absolutely!
Absolutely!
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ttf_Bach42T
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Dec 20, 2013, 06:54AMEarl McIntyre in New York has a TruBore bass with a sterling bell. You can sort of tell in this picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/narratography-apj/8135229781/in/photostream/
That is a really sharp horn. I bet there are only a handful of that combination, especially for bass. I am considering a Master Series and then buying a sterling bell. Seems like a hot combination. I miss my old King 4B with the Sterling bell.
That is a really sharp horn. I bet there are only a handful of that combination, especially for bass. I am considering a Master Series and then buying a sterling bell. Seems like a hot combination. I miss my old King 4B with the Sterling bell.
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ttf_elmsandr
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: griffinben on Dec 20, 2013, 02:22PMHi Andy,
Its been our observation that a dedicated single or double valve set just plain works better than a compromised adaptable system. It would take a lot of time to develop a bass set (particularly Tru-Bore) that functioned properly didn't look cobbled together. We would want to preserve the neckpipe and taper (which is one of the biggest advantages of a single valve bass) but that would make the horn dependent, and there's not much call for that these days. Especially not axial or Tru-Bore.
I hope that makes sense.
Ben
Luckily, I prefer dependent horns. I've never played a variation of a horn where the straight horn and only one valve engaged that didn't sound better in a dependent setup.
I'll probably pick up a dependent section, but not a lot of dependent Trubores on the secondary market and no bread for a new section at this time...
Cheers,
Andy
Its been our observation that a dedicated single or double valve set just plain works better than a compromised adaptable system. It would take a lot of time to develop a bass set (particularly Tru-Bore) that functioned properly didn't look cobbled together. We would want to preserve the neckpipe and taper (which is one of the biggest advantages of a single valve bass) but that would make the horn dependent, and there's not much call for that these days. Especially not axial or Tru-Bore.
I hope that makes sense.
Ben
Luckily, I prefer dependent horns. I've never played a variation of a horn where the straight horn and only one valve engaged that didn't sound better in a dependent setup.
I'll probably pick up a dependent section, but not a lot of dependent Trubores on the secondary market and no bread for a new section at this time...
Cheers,
Andy
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ttf_Duffle
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Ben
How would you describe the differences between drawn and seamed tuning slides in sound and feel/response terms? When setting up someone for horn when would you recommend a seamed over a drawn slide?............
How would you describe the differences between drawn and seamed tuning slides in sound and feel/response terms? When setting up someone for horn when would you recommend a seamed over a drawn slide?............
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ttf_trombone addict
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
What's the strangest horn combo you've sold?
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ttf_HouBassTrombone
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
A Shires Bonezilla!
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ttf_Burgerbob
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: HouBassTrombone on Dec 22, 2013, 08:27PMA Shires Bonezilla!
What happened to all of those?? I thought there were a couple at least.
What happened to all of those?? I thought there were a couple at least.
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ttf_HouBassTrombone
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
The people that bought them love them. Weirdos!
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ttf_jennconducts
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Bassbonebuster on Dec 18, 2013, 05:49AMA number of years ago, a gentleman at the Arkansas All-State had some Shires trombones with two tone bells. I have not seen them since. Did that catch on or fizzle out?
I have a 2REVT7 that is two tone (gold stem, red flare) that I received "accidentally" (long story). It's not the main bell that I use, but I do like it.
I have a 2REVT7 that is two tone (gold stem, red flare) that I received "accidentally" (long story). It's not the main bell that I use, but I do like it.
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Duffle on Dec 22, 2013, 12:20PMBen
How would you describe the differences between drawn and seamed tuning slides in sound and feel/response terms? When setting up someone for horn when would you recommend a seamed over a drawn slide?............
The seamed tuning slides have a very unique feel. The closest I can akin it to is the old 8/88H tuning slides that had the plate on the back of them. I think of it as a little more focus, or aligning the slots slightly differently. It's usually a love or hate relationship. They also seem to take a little bit of the "T" sound out of articulations and giving them more of a hard "D"; again, love or hate.
I usually explore these with folks that feel a standard or TX tuning slide doesn't line up quite right for them.
I hope that helps,
Ben
How would you describe the differences between drawn and seamed tuning slides in sound and feel/response terms? When setting up someone for horn when would you recommend a seamed over a drawn slide?............
The seamed tuning slides have a very unique feel. The closest I can akin it to is the old 8/88H tuning slides that had the plate on the back of them. I think of it as a little more focus, or aligning the slots slightly differently. It's usually a love or hate relationship. They also seem to take a little bit of the "T" sound out of articulations and giving them more of a hard "D"; again, love or hate.
I usually explore these with folks that feel a standard or TX tuning slide doesn't line up quite right for them.
I hope that helps,
Ben
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: trombone addict on Dec 22, 2013, 01:37PMWhat's the strangest horn combo you've sold?
No combination is strange if it works for the player!
I've seen a lot of things that seem unusual to American players going to Russian and Eastern European markets. Heavy horns with unsoldered beads. Takes a firm hand to get those horns to ring, but they seem to like them a lot!
The strangest combo that I've heard of? Dual bore .508-.525 slide, straight neckpipe, tenor to bass tuning slide, bass trombone bell. The true bass, french horn of trombones. Apparently the player loved it, and that's all that matters.
-Ben
No combination is strange if it works for the player!
I've seen a lot of things that seem unusual to American players going to Russian and Eastern European markets. Heavy horns with unsoldered beads. Takes a firm hand to get those horns to ring, but they seem to like them a lot!
The strangest combo that I've heard of? Dual bore .508-.525 slide, straight neckpipe, tenor to bass tuning slide, bass trombone bell. The true bass, french horn of trombones. Apparently the player loved it, and that's all that matters.
-Ben
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ttf_trombone addict
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Wow, that's a unique combo!
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ttf_JohnL
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: griffinben on Dec 23, 2013, 02:16PMThe strangest combo that I've heard of? Dual bore .508-.525 slide, straight neckpipe, tenor to bass tuning slide, bass trombone bell. The true bass, french horn of trombones. Apparently the player loved it, and that's all that matters.Sounds interesting (no pun intended). If the Shires factory were not a continent away, I might experiment with something like that myself, though I'd want an f-attachment and maybe a 9" flare.
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: JohnL on Dec 26, 2013, 01:21PMSounds interesting (no pun intended). If the Shires factory were not a continent away, I might experiment with something like that myself, though I'd want an f-attachment and maybe a 9" flare.
Quote from: trombone addict on Dec 26, 2013, 09:57AMWow, that's a unique combo!
Sounds crazy, but upon further reflection this set up sounds a lot like some German trombones I've seen.
To each their own!
Ben
Quote from: trombone addict on Dec 26, 2013, 09:57AMWow, that's a unique combo!
Sounds crazy, but upon further reflection this set up sounds a lot like some German trombones I've seen.
To each their own!
Ben
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ttf_TBigdaddy
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
I'd like to know where may I buy Shires Rest Bar (correct me if I'm wrong with name) and what is the price for this thing.
I've checked website and there is no info about it.
Thank you in advance for your reply.
I've checked website and there is no info about it.
Thank you in advance for your reply.
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ttf_jazz bassbone
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
can you ballpark how much would a Bassbone cost with yellow brass. 9.5in bell, .562 bore, F and G flat independent valves?
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ttf_Gabe Langfur
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: jazz bassbone on Jan 19, 2014, 11:41AMcan you ballpark how much would a Bassbone cost with yellow brass. 9.5in bell, .562 bore, F and G flat independent valves?
No ballpark necessary. Prices are on the website now: http://seshires.com/bass.html
No ballpark necessary. Prices are on the website now: http://seshires.com/bass.html
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ttf_jazz bassbone
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ttf_Bob Kolada
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
I'm actually curious (though not financially so at the moment!) about the current state of the Bonezilla, regardless of what the kids say... 
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Bob Kolada on Jan 19, 2014, 07:19PMI'm actually curious (though not financially so at the moment!) about the current state of the Bonezilla, regardless of what the kids say...
He is currently slumbering in the watery depths with no current plans to arise. However, if you were really interested I could do some digging around and see if we might summon him once more.
FWIW, we can do a straight .578 bore slide quite easily....
He is currently slumbering in the watery depths with no current plans to arise. However, if you were really interested I could do some digging around and see if we might summon him once more.
FWIW, we can do a straight .578 bore slide quite easily....
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: TBigdaddy on Jan 18, 2014, 10:36AMI'd like to know where may I buy Shires Rest Bar (correct me if I'm wrong with name) and what is the price for this thing.
I've checked website and there is no info about it.
Thank you in advance for your reply.
You may buy a Shires rest bar directly from the factory. The components are $100 and they would need to be installed by a technician (the saddle for the rest bar itself is soldered onto the slide receiver).
I've checked website and there is no info about it.
Thank you in advance for your reply.
You may buy a Shires rest bar directly from the factory. The components are $100 and they would need to be installed by a technician (the saddle for the rest bar itself is soldered onto the slide receiver).
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ttf_TromboneMonkey
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: griffinben on Jan 20, 2014, 06:09AM
FWIW, we can do a straight .578 bore slide quite easily....
I play with a player weekly who has a Shires Double-Thayer bass with .562, a dual bore, and a straight .578 in nickel, the last of which has oversleeves and even a little extra metal soldered on, I'm supposing for the extra weight. He switches between the three but always comes back to the .578 slide as he prefers it.
Notes pop nicely with all the nickel and the low notes are especially present. Despite the bore being colossal he blends in a big band nicely. I really like playing in a section with him because I can (especially on lead) relax and allow the nice lows and mids to creep back into my sound as well, for a buttery smooth trombone section vibe.
He uses a big Elliott M cup with a 9 backbore (huge), but again, the notes pop nicely. It's good stuff!
FWIW, we can do a straight .578 bore slide quite easily....
I play with a player weekly who has a Shires Double-Thayer bass with .562, a dual bore, and a straight .578 in nickel, the last of which has oversleeves and even a little extra metal soldered on, I'm supposing for the extra weight. He switches between the three but always comes back to the .578 slide as he prefers it.
Notes pop nicely with all the nickel and the low notes are especially present. Despite the bore being colossal he blends in a big band nicely. I really like playing in a section with him because I can (especially on lead) relax and allow the nice lows and mids to creep back into my sound as well, for a buttery smooth trombone section vibe.
He uses a big Elliott M cup with a 9 backbore (huge), but again, the notes pop nicely. It's good stuff!
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ttf_Matt K
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: TromboneMonkey on Jan 20, 2014, 08:19AMI play with a player weekly who has a Shires Double-Thayer bass with .562, a dual bore, and a straight .578 in nickel, the last of which has oversleeves and even a little extra metal soldered on, I'm supposing for the extra weight. He switches between the three but always comes back to the .578 slide as he prefers it.
Notes pop nicely with all the nickel and the low notes are especially present. Despite the bore being colossal he blends in a big band nicely. I really like playing in a section with him because I can (especially on lead) relax and allow the nice lows and mids to creep back into my sound as well, for a buttery smooth trombone section vibe.
He uses a big Elliott M cup with a 9 backbore (huge), but again, the notes pop nicely. It's good stuff!
If memory serves, Jeff Cortazzo (Army Blues) plays a pretty monstrous (Shires) bass bone... but I don't konw the exact specs. What my memory is telling me is that he used to play a bonezilla with a >10.5" bell, no leadpipe, and a Doug Elliott CB122/P/P10(or something rigged up to be a leadpipe instead or something)... however, I'm sure that isn't all true. When he detailed equipment to me, I didn't know anything about trombone, so it wasn't very meaningful to me.
In either case, he still does lean towards the larger side of things, and he sounds absolutely amazing. For some people, the bigger stuff just works. In the case of your bass bone player, he might do better on an all nickel .562... or not. Hard to tell unless you've tried it!
Notes pop nicely with all the nickel and the low notes are especially present. Despite the bore being colossal he blends in a big band nicely. I really like playing in a section with him because I can (especially on lead) relax and allow the nice lows and mids to creep back into my sound as well, for a buttery smooth trombone section vibe.
He uses a big Elliott M cup with a 9 backbore (huge), but again, the notes pop nicely. It's good stuff!
If memory serves, Jeff Cortazzo (Army Blues) plays a pretty monstrous (Shires) bass bone... but I don't konw the exact specs. What my memory is telling me is that he used to play a bonezilla with a >10.5" bell, no leadpipe, and a Doug Elliott CB122/P/P10(or something rigged up to be a leadpipe instead or something)... however, I'm sure that isn't all true. When he detailed equipment to me, I didn't know anything about trombone, so it wasn't very meaningful to me.
In either case, he still does lean towards the larger side of things, and he sounds absolutely amazing. For some people, the bigger stuff just works. In the case of your bass bone player, he might do better on an all nickel .562... or not. Hard to tell unless you've tried it!
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ttf_TromboneMonkey
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Matt K on Jan 20, 2014, 09:33AMIf memory serves, Jeff Cortazzo (Army Blues) plays a pretty monstrous (Shires) bass bone... but I don't konw the exact specs. What my memory is telling me is that he used to play a bonezilla with a >10.5" bell, no leadpipe, and a Doug Elliott CB122/P/P10(or something rigged up to be a leadpipe instead or something)... however, I'm sure that isn't all true. When he detailed equipment to me, I didn't know anything about trombone, so it wasn't very meaningful to me.
In either case, he still does lean towards the larger side of things, and he sounds absolutely amazing. For some people, the bigger stuff just works. In the case of your bass bone player, he might do better on an all nickel .562... or not. Hard to tell unless you've tried it!
To be honest I can't remember if his smaller slide is nickel or not.
Not trying to hijack the thread though, as it is a Shires Q&A. Just pointing out that there are players who successfully field straight .578 slides and sound terrific!
In either case, he still does lean towards the larger side of things, and he sounds absolutely amazing. For some people, the bigger stuff just works. In the case of your bass bone player, he might do better on an all nickel .562... or not. Hard to tell unless you've tried it!
To be honest I can't remember if his smaller slide is nickel or not.
Not trying to hijack the thread though, as it is a Shires Q&A. Just pointing out that there are players who successfully field straight .578 slides and sound terrific!
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ttf_dj kennedy
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
hey ben great thread !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
my question is about a bell section--????---really the flare with ts receiver '
a regular tuning slide just doesnt want to go in
-----------
wattizzit ?????? will look and find number --its colder than ///////////
my question is about a bell section--????---really the flare with ts receiver '
a regular tuning slide just doesnt want to go in
-----------
wattizzit ?????? will look and find number --its colder than ///////////
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ttf_griffinben
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: dj kennedy on Jan 21, 2014, 04:59PMhey ben great thread !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
my question is about a bell section--????---really the flare with ts receiver '
a regular tuning slide just doesnt want to go in
-----------
wattizzit ?????? will look and find number --its colder than ///////////
DJ!
Ok, it could be MANY things. First off, are you trying to put the tuning slide into only the flare or the flare assembled with a valve section or neckpipe?
If it is just the flare by itself, clean the inside of the tuning slide receiver with a swab rod. Get it really squeaky clean (literally). Degrease the upper leg of the tuning slide and make sure it is clean too, without and detrius on it. Apply tuning slide grease and go from there. If it still doesn't fit we'll have to look at it. Is the tube of the tuning slide straight?
Does it have a curve to it? One can create a curve or lip (or both!) if the tuning slide is regularly removed with a lot of force and with one side popping out before the other, so its removed in an arc, not a straight line. That makes the tubes out of round and it won't fit very well after a while. The tube would need to be straightened to work properly.
If the tubes are straight and NO tuning slide fits in the bell, the tuning slide receiver may need to be lapped or honed.
If you are trying to assemble with a valve section/neckpipe attached: As with the bell, clean the valve slide receiver portion of the tuning slide. How does the valve side tuning slide leg look (i.e. out of round?). Does it fit to the valve section by itself or will it not go?
How does the valve section/neckpipe fit to the bell? Is it parallel or under tension? That may create alignment problems.
If all fits OK, loosen the bell nuts slightly so that there is a little bit of movement between the bell and valve section. Hold the bell section with the valve linkage facing up and the tuning slide away from you, the bell tucked against your thigh or belly. Then fit one of the tuning slide legs to the bell section (Usually one leg is slightly longer than the other, but I can't recall which offhand. Don't worry, its by design.), then move the tuning slide so the other leg is just above the receiver. You are trying to make the fit as parallel as possible. The extra wiggle room from the loosened bell lock nuts should help.
I should note, you need to use a LOT of tuning slide grease. More than you think (especially after cleaning). We recommend using Hetman #7 tuning slide gel.
If that doesn't work, it's probably the kind of thing I'd nee to see to diagnose. All kind of things can (and do!) happen to horns as they are used and loved...all kinds of things.
I hope that helps!
-Ben
Ben
my question is about a bell section--????---really the flare with ts receiver '
a regular tuning slide just doesnt want to go in
-----------
wattizzit ?????? will look and find number --its colder than ///////////
DJ!
Ok, it could be MANY things. First off, are you trying to put the tuning slide into only the flare or the flare assembled with a valve section or neckpipe?
If it is just the flare by itself, clean the inside of the tuning slide receiver with a swab rod. Get it really squeaky clean (literally). Degrease the upper leg of the tuning slide and make sure it is clean too, without and detrius on it. Apply tuning slide grease and go from there. If it still doesn't fit we'll have to look at it. Is the tube of the tuning slide straight?
Does it have a curve to it? One can create a curve or lip (or both!) if the tuning slide is regularly removed with a lot of force and with one side popping out before the other, so its removed in an arc, not a straight line. That makes the tubes out of round and it won't fit very well after a while. The tube would need to be straightened to work properly.
If the tubes are straight and NO tuning slide fits in the bell, the tuning slide receiver may need to be lapped or honed.
If you are trying to assemble with a valve section/neckpipe attached: As with the bell, clean the valve slide receiver portion of the tuning slide. How does the valve side tuning slide leg look (i.e. out of round?). Does it fit to the valve section by itself or will it not go?
How does the valve section/neckpipe fit to the bell? Is it parallel or under tension? That may create alignment problems.
If all fits OK, loosen the bell nuts slightly so that there is a little bit of movement between the bell and valve section. Hold the bell section with the valve linkage facing up and the tuning slide away from you, the bell tucked against your thigh or belly. Then fit one of the tuning slide legs to the bell section (Usually one leg is slightly longer than the other, but I can't recall which offhand. Don't worry, its by design.), then move the tuning slide so the other leg is just above the receiver. You are trying to make the fit as parallel as possible. The extra wiggle room from the loosened bell lock nuts should help.
I should note, you need to use a LOT of tuning slide grease. More than you think (especially after cleaning). We recommend using Hetman #7 tuning slide gel.
If that doesn't work, it's probably the kind of thing I'd nee to see to diagnose. All kind of things can (and do!) happen to horns as they are used and loved...all kinds of things.
I hope that helps!
-Ben
Ben
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ttf_anonymous
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- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
While we're on tuning slides, I have pretty much the opposite problem. Mine falls in by itself. It's very annoying to have to pull my tuning slide out every 2 minutes while playing. I've tried pretty much every greese/lube I have been able to get my hands on and nothing seems to work very well on my Shires (my other horns don't seem to have the same problem).
I figure it must be a tolerance issue? What do you recommend I do?
I figure it must be a tolerance issue? What do you recommend I do?
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ttf_griffinben
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: lukeaar on Jan 23, 2014, 02:26AMWhile we're on tuning slides, I have pretty much the opposite problem. Mine falls in by itself. It's very annoying to have to pull my tuning slide out every 2 minutes while playing. I've tried pretty much every greese/lube I have been able to get my hands on and nothing seems to work very well on my Shires (my other horns don't seem to have the same problem).
I figure it must be a tolerance issue? What do you recommend I do?
Have you tried lanolin? Its about the thickest, most viscous tuning slide grease I know of.
Also, did you get your horn new or used?
- Ben
I figure it must be a tolerance issue? What do you recommend I do?
Have you tried lanolin? Its about the thickest, most viscous tuning slide grease I know of.
Also, did you get your horn new or used?
- Ben
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ttf_daveyboy37
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
I would contact shires directly to see what can be done. I posted about a similar issue on two of my horns and usually expanding the ends of both legs a little will help it stay in place better. It has to be done VERY carefully or it'll be too big. It's much easier to make it a tiny bit bigger than it is to go the other way.
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ttf_lukeaar
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:53 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: griffinben on Jan 23, 2014, 06:44AMHave you tried lanolin? Its about the thickest, most viscous tuning slide grease I know of.
Also, did you get your horn new or used?
- Ben
Lanolin is what I use on my other horns. Still doesn't hold my Shires tuning slide.
Horn was bought new.
Quote from: daveyboy37 on Jan 23, 2014, 06:59AMI would contact shires directly to see what can be done. I posted about a similar issue on two of my horns and usually expanding the ends of both legs a little will help it stay in place better. It has to be done VERY carefully or it'll be too big. It's much easier to make it a tiny bit bigger than it is to go the other way.
This is basically what I was considering - flaring out the ends of the tubs a tad.
Also, did you get your horn new or used?
- Ben
Lanolin is what I use on my other horns. Still doesn't hold my Shires tuning slide.
Horn was bought new.
Quote from: daveyboy37 on Jan 23, 2014, 06:59AMI would contact shires directly to see what can be done. I posted about a similar issue on two of my horns and usually expanding the ends of both legs a little will help it stay in place better. It has to be done VERY carefully or it'll be too big. It's much easier to make it a tiny bit bigger than it is to go the other way.
This is basically what I was considering - flaring out the ends of the tubs a tad.
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ttf_griffinben
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: lukeaar on Jan 23, 2014, 03:24PMLanolin is what I use on my other horns. Still doesn't hold my Shires tuning slide.
Horn was bought new.
This is basically what I was considering - flaring out the ends of the tubs a tad.
If you bought the instrument new within the past two years, either from us or one of our authorized dealers, it is still covered by our warranty. You can contact the factory directly at 508-634-6805 or write [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url] and we can discuss options.
I would be very careful about what work you did and who you had do the work. You don't want to go to change how the instrument plays. And/or void the warranty if it is still in place.
-Ben
Horn was bought new.
This is basically what I was considering - flaring out the ends of the tubs a tad.
If you bought the instrument new within the past two years, either from us or one of our authorized dealers, it is still covered by our warranty. You can contact the factory directly at 508-634-6805 or write [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url] and we can discuss options.
I would be very careful about what work you did and who you had do the work. You don't want to go to change how the instrument plays. And/or void the warranty if it is still in place.
-Ben
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ttf_Strussman
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Ben,
Can you provide some background/detail on the development of the "hybrid" tuning slide vs. dual radius and single radius?
Thanks,
Bill
Can you provide some background/detail on the development of the "hybrid" tuning slide vs. dual radius and single radius?
Thanks,
Bill
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ttf_daveyboy37
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
I used to have some of the red tubs of dillon tuning slide grease. pretty much pure lanolin. thick and goopy and sticky as heck. it was so thick I eventually got rid of it. I hope I still have some around as now i want that thicky goopy stuff back. most of the other lanolin based greases seem to be cut with other stuff to make it more "friendly".
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ttf_lukeaar
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:53 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
What's actually dual-bore about the dual-bore rotar? How is it different from the standard rotar?
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ttf_Bassbonebuster
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
How do you ensure that the parts you make for a customer will play the same way as the set up they decided on when they were fitted?
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ttf_Duffle
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Bassbonebuster on Jan 25, 2014, 07:36PMHow do you ensure that the parts you make for a customer will play the same way as the set up they decided on when they were fitted?
I guess anything hand-made will have small variations in each example of that particular thing.........
I guess anything hand-made will have small variations in each example of that particular thing.........
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ttf_griffinben
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Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?
Quote from: Strussman on Jan 24, 2014, 12:13PMBen,
Can you provide some background/detail on the development of the "hybrid" tuning slide vs. dual radius and single radius?
Thanks,
Bill
There's not a lot to say, I believe Steve went for this because it is what you find on 8/88H instruments. And he really likes the way those play! We can find a fit for just about everyone with the different tuning slide options we provide.
Best Regards,
Ben
Can you provide some background/detail on the development of the "hybrid" tuning slide vs. dual radius and single radius?
Thanks,
Bill
There's not a lot to say, I believe Steve went for this because it is what you find on 8/88H instruments. And he really likes the way those play! We can find a fit for just about everyone with the different tuning slide options we provide.
Best Regards,
Ben