Smartphones/PDAs not connecting to TTF

ttf_mwpfoot · Post by **ttf_mwpfoot** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:20 pm

We have a classified ads area that is allegedly transmitting script viruses.

We SHOULD be on suspicious IP lists.

ttf_Todd Jonz · Post by **ttf_Todd Jonz** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:59 am

Bruce writes:

> My suspicion is that we got on somebody's "banned" list

When you suspect this might be the case you can search for a domain name or IP address on all the "popular" blacklists (not all of which are actually blacklists, as discussed below) at BlacklistAlert.Org.

At present the "tromboneforum.org" domain appears on two lists. The first just indicates the domain is registered anonymously. The second indicates that TTF's mail server has been known to send spam, which is hardly a surprise since TTF uses Gmail (i.e. the server that has been known to send spam belongs to Google, not TTF.)

A couple of years ago, during a two-week period when the Forum experienced two outages and horrendously slow response times, TTF appeared on three of these blacklists for sending spam. Soon after the webmaster fixed the problem (without acknowledging that the server had been compromised) the domain was removed from these lists. I haven't seen it blacklisted anywhere since.

mwpfoot writes:

> We have a classified ads area that is allegedly transmitting script viruses.

Not anymore. The classifieds site, which you may have noticed disappeared from the TTF "Goodies" menu long ago, now consists of a stark, uncontaminated HTML page that reads simply:

Quote from: TTF ClassifiedsThe Classifieds area is in the midst of a major upgrade. Watch this space for the reappearance of the site, estimated to be 1 October 2011.

ttf_Bach42BOS · Post by **ttf_Bach42BOS** » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:20 am

for some reason i can't seem to access the forum when my phone is on 3G. it used to work before but lately i've been getting this error message (about two months ago). when i'm running off wireless i can access the site without problem. any ideas what might be the cause of this? i have an iphone 3GS and my carrier is AT&T. My ip address is 166.147.88.23, located in Honolulu, HI. Thanks!

ttf_JSBassTrb · Post by **ttf_JSBassTrb** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:53 pm

Quote from: Bach42BOS on Jun 18, 2012, 12:20AMfor some reason i can't seem to access the forum when my phone is on 3G. it used to work before but lately i've been getting this error message (about two months ago). when i'm running off wireless i can access the site without problem. any ideas what might be the cause of this? i have an iphone 3GS and my carrier is AT&T. My ip address is 166.147.88.23, located in Honolulu, HI. Thanks!

I am getting the same thing on my iPhone 4 on AT&T. It has been happening for a few months for me as well.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:37 pm

In the past when this happened to me, the problem went away after a week or so. This time it has been broken nearly a month. I also have AT&T.

You can get through using a proxy service like proxify.com. It isn't a great long-term solution, but it will work in the short term.

ttf_RedHotMama · Post by **ttf_RedHotMama** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:58 am

That's the message which, for a year or so, appeared on my work computer. I thought perhaps someone down in the computing department had blocked the site! However, it went away by itself. Weird.

ttf_tbone62 · Post by **ttf_tbone62** » Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:25 pm

I'm able to access the Forum via my 3G Verizon DroidX, if that helps anyone figure out what's up.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:05 am

Clearly the ATT Subnet is being blocked. IF you can connect with wifi and not your 3G / 4G att service there is a hosting problem. Can a Moderator submit this to the admin then to the hosting company? Seems strange that it has been going on this long.

ttf_RedHotMama · Post by **ttf_RedHotMama** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:56 am

Captain, the admin knows all about this problem, which is one of several he's supposed to be fixing. However, he seems to have great difficulty getting arse in gear....

ttf_bbocaner · Post by **ttf_bbocaner** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:14 am

Quote from: Captainslow on Sep 13, 2012, 06:05AMClearly the ATT Subnet is being blocked. IF you can connect with wifi and not your 3G / 4G att service there is a hosting problem. Can a Moderator submit this to the admin then to the hosting company? Seems strange that it has been going on this long.

I don't think that's it. I think AT&T (and some other providers) use a transparent proxy server to save bandwidth at their edge. I think the "forbidden" message is coming from this proxy server, and not from the TTF server. Could be that some of the blacklists previously mentioned are used automatically by these proxy servers and they are denying TTF on that basis.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:28 am

The banlist issue can be maddening.

I was in North Andover, MA and they had free WiFi at the Town Hall where my meeting was occurring. I got a "ban" message from TTF while I could go to nearly every other location I wanted. Note that I was using a laptop, not a Smartphone or PDA. This same computer connects to TTF in lots of other locations (including my home and my workplace).

I also ran into this problem at an airport where the WiFi service refused to connect to TTF.

Is there any way to get off the Banlist? Whom do we have to [s]bribe[/s] convince of our chastity?

ttf_bbocaner · Post by **ttf_bbocaner** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:54 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Sep 28, 2012, 04:28AM
Is there any way to get off the Banlist? Whom do we have to [s]bribe[/s] convince of our chastity?

Don't know. Assuming my theory is correct, you'd have to either figure out which list the providers are using and then lobby whoever maintains that list to remove it, or petition directly to the provider to make an exception. Some of the ban list maintainers have fair review procedures to get sites unlisted, some don't. Good luck getting through to the right person at AT&T wireless who has the power to make any changes -- it's one of those things that I doubt even their customer support people are aware that they are using.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:58 am

That happens to me from time to time. My VPN service, Witopia, allows me to access the site during those rare times that it happens to me.

What's more puzzling is sometimes it doesn't let me connect with my Chrome or Safari iPhone app, but my Opera app works just fine.

ttf_Todd Jonz · Post by **ttf_Todd Jonz** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:52 am

Captainslow writes:

> Clearly the ATT Subnet is being blocked.

Nope. This problem, which has been around in one form or another for a *long* time, has also occurred on other cellular carriers as well as non-cellular ISPs. My most recent experience with it was using a laptop on a hotel WiFi connection in the D.C. area last January.

bbocaner writes:

> I think AT&T (and some other providers) use a transparent
> proxy server to save bandwidth at their edge. I think the
> "forbidden" message is coming from this proxy server,
> and not from the TTF server.

I think this is *exactly* what is happening. I believe there is a problem with the way the carrier/ISP proxies are configured, or possibly with the way in which the TTF server is configured to handle requests submitted through proxies.

> Could be that some of the blacklists previously mentioned
> are used automatically by these proxy servers and they are
> denying TTF on that basis.

Unlikely. TTF has not, to the best of my knowledge appeared on any blacklists for several years, and it is not currently listed at BlackListAlert.org. And, contrary to the popular wisdom in this thread, it is very rare for non-offending (or formerly offending) sites to get "stuck" on blacklists without recourse.

A quick Google search leads me to believe this is not an uncommon problem. I've seen several solutions that allegedly fixed the problem in similar cases: (1) reboot the device; (2) turn on "airplane mode" for a few seconds, then turn it off again; (3) remove the name of the proxy server, if any, from the phone's APN settings.

Dunno if these solutions will help in this case (probably not), but they might at least be worth a try for those who are having problems. The first two are completely innocuous; if you try the third be sure to make a note of the proxy server before you delete it just in case you need to restore it later.

ttf_JP · Post by **ttf_JP** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:58 pm

I have no problems accessing TTF on my iPhone4S since I got it last January. Maybe it is a local issue. All my experience is S. California.

ttf_Captainslow · Post by **ttf_Captainslow** » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:46 pm

Ok,

I will share what I have found.... I think we are in agreement but just approaching it from a different angle. The "Transparent" proxy server that my phone at ATT does exist. Mine is nycmspsrvz1ts416-dmz.mycingular.net or 198.228.200.30. If you want to find your try out this site. http://www.lagado.com/proxy-test from your mobile device. With that said the ATT proxy server is not actually generating the 403 error code. My wireshark tests show the packet actually originating from 216.139.89.3 (The Webserver hosting this site). I verified be decrypting the packet and the results contained the 403 error text. I made an over stated remark about the entire subnet. I can tell you with absolutely certainty that this IP / Proxy server that many of us are sharing on ATT is being blocked. After all we all know what a 403 error means

The debate is as to why and where its coming from.

See my wireshark attachment for an actual diagnostic readout.

Quote from: Todd Jonz on Sep 28, 2012, 10:52AMCaptainslow writes:

> Clearly the ATT Subnet is being blocked.

Nope. This problem, which has been around in one form or another for a *long* time, has also occurred on other cellular carriers as well as non-cellular ISPs. My most recent experience with it was using a laptop on a hotel WiFi connection in the D.C. area last January.

bbocaner writes:

> I think AT&T (and some other providers) use a transparent
> proxy server to save bandwidth at their edge. I think the
> "forbidden" message is coming from this proxy server,
> and not from the TTF server.

I think this is *exactly* what is happening. I believe there is a problem with the way the carrier/ISP proxies are configured, or possibly with the way in which the TTF server is configured to handle requests submitted through proxies.

> Could be that some of the blacklists previously mentioned
> are used automatically by these proxy servers and they are
> denying TTF on that basis.

Unlikely. TTF has not, to the best of my knowledge appeared on any blacklists for several years, and it is not currently listed at BlackListAlert.org. And, contrary to the popular wisdom in this thread, it is very rare for non-offending (or formerly offending) sites to get "stuck" on blacklists without recourse.

A quick Google search leads me to believe this is not an uncommon problem. I've seen several solutions that allegedly fixed the problem in similar cases: (1) reboot the device; (2) turn on "airplane mode" for a few seconds, then turn it off again; (3) remove the name of the proxy server, if any, from the phone's APN settings.

Dunno if these solutions will help in this case (probably not), but they might at least be worth a try for those who are having problems. The first two are completely innocuous; if you try the third be sure to make a note of the proxy server before you delete it just in case you need to restore it later.

ttf_Todd Jonz · Post by **ttf_Todd Jonz** » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:07 pm

Captainslow writes:

> the ATT proxy server is not actually generating the
> 403 error code. My wireshark tests show the packet
> actually originating from 216.139.89.3 (The Webserver
> hosting this site).

Good work, Captain! AFAIK this is the first time we have actually ascertained where the 403 errors originate. (The easy way, of course, would have been to check the TTF server logs, but the sysadmin has never been forthcoming with this information.)

I found an interesting discussion thread that describes an essentially identical problem with different software. It suggests there may be a problem with the way SMF is handling the X-Forwarded-For argument injected into the HTTP request header by the proxy. This is particularly interesting in that there are other known problems with the way in which TTF's ancient version of SMF handles the X-Forwarded-For header, specifically a vulnerability that enables IP spoofing.

A year or two back a banned TTF member exploited this vulnerability repeatedly, creating a variety of personae who appeared to have connected from a variety of (spoofed) IP addresses. In their efforts to vaporize this miscreant the staff banned a *lot* of IP addresses and address blocks. If these exclusions were never lifted it's entirely possible that SMF is rejecting requests from IP addresses associated with proxy servers as a result of this little escapade.

Question for the TTF staff members with SMF admin privileges: can you view a comprehensive list of IP addresses that have been banned over time? If so, it might be a worthwhile exercise for everyone who is experiencing this problem to visit the proxy test page Captainslow mentioned above (a very handy resource, BTW) and report the IP addresses of their proxies so the staff can compare them with the SMF ban list.

ttf_Eastcheap · Post by **ttf_Eastcheap** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:39 am

Quote from: Captainslow on Sep 28, 2012, 06:46PMI will share what I have found.... I think we are in agreement but just approaching it from a different angle. The "Transparent" proxy server that my phone at ATT does exist.

In that case, what happens if you simply don't use the proxy? Most browsers should be at least that configurable (heck, I had a POS gophone-branded Samsung that let me bypass the proxy). AFAIK, the only benefit is access to some cruddy AT&T services that aren't terribly useful in the first place.

ttf_Captainslow · Post by **ttf_Captainslow** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:19 am

PS.....

Post the sever maintenance www.tromboneforum.org appears to be on a different box. The post I mentioned may still be applicable but the errors are much different.

My friends iPhone on ATT:

"error 502 Bad Gateway. Response error, a bad response was received from another proxy server or the destination origin server."

My Droid:

loads an apache page

ttf_bbocaner · Post by **ttf_bbocaner** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:05 am

Quote from: Eastcheap on Oct 01, 2012, 01:39AMIn that case, what happens if you simply don't use the proxy? Most browsers should be at least that configurable (heck, I had a POS gophone-branded Samsung that let me bypass the proxy). AFAIK, the only benefit is access to some cruddy AT&T services that aren't terribly useful in the first place.

It's a transparent proxy, meaning there is some policy NAT in place to redirect HTTP traffic to it regardless of any settings on the phone itself.

Which also means that Captainslow's logic that because his packet capture appears to show a 403 coming from the TTF IP address means that it is a TTF configuration issue and not a proxy issue is wrong -- that same address translation would mean that the reply would appear to be coming from the TTF IP even though it was really coming through the proxy.

That's not to say I don't think his theory also holds water... Todd Jonz's thought that it may be because of a ban list is compelling. However, in the headers in the capture that captainslow posted, it shows it as coming from Apache/2.2.19 on FreeBSD, and a capture that I just did shows a page load on TTF coming from Apache/2.2.3 on CentOS. Now, it may be possible that the maintenence that was done this weekend changed the server OS and apache version, but it also may be possible that the 403 was coming from a different server than the TTF server and the source IP was just translated. I don't have the capability to do a packet capture through my AT&T phone connection, but it'd be interesting to do another one now and compare the headers with what you'd get through a clear Internet connection.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:41 am

The Admins (RHM, bhcordova, BFW, and myself) have access to the Ban List. I don't really want to reveal the total of the banned IP addresses, but I can say the vast majority of them are from the Far East, where most of our spammers originate.

If someone wants me to test a particular IP address, I would be happy to do so. Send either a PM or an e-mail ([url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]). I can't promise instantaneous response, but I'll be happy to help.

If it turns out your IP address has been blocked, I may be able to tell you why and if justified I can remove the block.

ttf_bbocaner · Post by **ttf_bbocaner** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:55 am

OK, So my phone on AT&T wireless is now displaying a "apache 2 on centos test page" which seems like a default page that would come with the fresh installation of apache on centos, which is what we already determined the forum was running on post-upgrade. This seems to me to point to a proxy compatibility issue with the proxy that AT&T is using. The ttf server is being confused somehow by the HTTP/1.1 headers that are being passed by the proxy and is selecting the default web server rather than the virtual server that the forum is hosted on using the same IP. This is probably what was happening before, but the default server was configured to just give a 403 rather than the default test page that is now installed. This would point to an incompatibility between the way the proxy is configured and the way the ttf server is configured.

ttf_bbocaner · Post by **ttf_bbocaner** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:57 am

If it is the ban list, it's possible that the server is configured to send the banned IPs to a different virtual web server than the regular ones. Bruce -- can you check 198.228.200.32?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:45 pm

We don't have any banned IP's starting on 198.

ttf_Captainslow · Post by **ttf_Captainslow** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:14 pm

Quote from: bbocaner on Oct 01, 2012, 07:55AMOK, So my phone on AT&T wireless is now displaying a "apache 2 on centos test page" which seems like a default page that would come with the fresh installation of apache on centos, which is what we already determined the forum was running on post-upgrade. This seems to me to point to a proxy compatibility issue with the proxy that AT&T is using. The ttf server is being confused somehow by the HTTP/1.1 headers that are being passed by the proxy and is selecting the default web server rather than the virtual server that the forum is hosted on using the same IP. This is probably what was happening before, but the default server was configured to just give a 403 rather than the default test page that is now installed. This would point to an incompatibility between the way the proxy is configured and the way the ttf server is configured.

I agree with this and think this is what is happening.... I ran the wire shark again, will post and this appears to be exactly what's going on. I am switching to Verizon now lol. I doubt there is much of a KB on making your site work with ATT phones. I can research it but what a PIA....

ttf_Eastcheap · Post by **ttf_Eastcheap** » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:23 pm

Quote from: bbocaner on Oct 01, 2012, 06:05AMIt's a transparent proxy, meaning there is some policy NAT in place to redirect HTTP traffic to it regardless of any settings on the phone itself.

It's true that AT&T connects you to the network via a NAT router, but there's no proxy involved, so far as I can tell (and I'm using AT&T wireless right now). If fact, I've no particular reason to believe that anything more sinister than IP masquerading is going on.

If the Legado proxy test is saying otherwise, then something else is afoot. Most AT&T phones have browsers configured to use a proxy by default. I don't know if that applies to Android and iPhone, however (I know it doesn't to Palm).

QuoteThat's not to say I don't think his theory also holds water... Todd Jonz's thought that it may be because of a ban list is compelling.

This has been discussed at some length. If there's a ban, it's almost certainly not a TTF ban, but something implemented at a lower level.

QuoteHowever, in the headers in the capture that captainslow posted, it shows it as coming from Apache/2.2.19 on FreeBSD, and a capture that I just did shows a page load on TTF coming from Apache/2.2.3 on CentOS.

Which tends to suggest something going on at a lower level. In fact, that could be a DNS hiccough (it seemed to take ages for the AT&T nameservers to get the new address). The Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS) server is definitely TTF's.

ttf_bbocaner · Post by **ttf_bbocaner** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:04 am

Quote from: Eastcheap on Oct 01, 2012, 07:23PMIt's true that AT&T connects you to the network via a NAT router, but there's no proxy involved, so far as I can tell (and I'm using AT&T wireless right now). If fact, I've no particular reason to believe that anything more sinister than IP masquerading is going on.

If the Legado proxy test is saying otherwise, then something else is afoot. Most AT&T phones have browsers configured to use a proxy by default. I don't know if that applies to Android and iPhone, however (I know it doesn't to Palm).

This has been discussed at some length. If there's a ban, it's almost certainly not a TTF ban, but something implemented at a lower level.

Which tends to suggest something going on at a lower level. In fact, that could be a DNS hiccough (it seemed to take ages for the AT&T nameservers to get the new address). The Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS) server is definitely TTF's.

Like I said. It's a transparent proxy, which they force upon you using a policy NAT rather than with OS or browser settings. Maybe they only do it for iphone and/or android users, but it's there.

And something about the way the proxy works causes it not to be compatible with something about the way the TTF server is set up to do virtual hosts.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:08 am

FWIW, we don't have any banned IPs beginning with 210.

ttf_bbocaner · Post by **ttf_bbocaner** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:17 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Oct 02, 2012, 06:08AMFWIW, we don't have any banned IPs beginning with 210.

Not worth anything

-- that's the IP address of the lagado test applet that eastcheap mentioned. But thanks anyways.

ttf_Eastcheap · Post by **ttf_Eastcheap** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:33 am

Quote from: bbocaner on Oct 02, 2012, 06:04AMLike I said. It's a transparent proxy, which they force upon you using a policy NAT rather than with OS or browser settings. Maybe they only do it for iphone and/or android users, but it's there.

Okay, I think we're actually making some progress here.

The 198.228 addresses don't belong to AT&T. That network is owned by Service Provider Corporation. Time and time again, they've been implicated in the connection problems.

There's not a lot of information about them on the net, but what I've seen isn't very positive. This blog post might be relevant.

I'm typically assigned AT&T-owned 32/8 addresses and there's not a whiff of proxy.

However...

When I inject a bogus "Via" entry in my request headers, surprise surprise, I get directed to the aforementioned Apache test page. Apparently, the problem is the "Via" entry per se, not the associated proxy, which is kind of obnoxious, but functional.

I think we need finally to put the whole "banned IP" notion to rest and accept that the problem is simply dysfunctional server-side software. I doubt that there's anything the TTF admins can do about it except complain.

QuoteAnd something about the way the proxy works causes it not to be compatible with something about the way the TTF server is set up to do virtual hosts.

So far as I can tell, the VH system used by TTF's host is some kind of in-house thing that doesn't work very well. I've had minor problems with it off and on for years, regardless of ISP.

For an illustration, try connecting to TTF using the raw IP address (currently 54.243.192.52) so as to produce a meaningless "Host:" header entry. What comes back (as raw ASCII, not HTML) is:

Database Error: Unable to connect to the database:Could not connect to MySQL

which simply isn't appropriate behavior.

ttf_Captainslow · Post by **ttf_Captainslow** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:48 am

The banned IP was a theory pre update because the error was coming from the old server with a 403 error. It wasn't completely wacky to think that. Now with the new server. The possibility of a compatibility issues is in question. I guess the next step is to figure out the configuration and see if other .php sites suffer from this ailment and what actions did they take to overcome it. I will ask a forum admin at another site if he ever ran into this issue. (This forum I am referring to has a user base of over 80k). Its possible that he ran into this as well at some point.

ttf_Eastcheap · Post by **ttf_Eastcheap** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:07 pm

Quote from: Captainslow on Oct 02, 2012, 11:48AMI guess the next step is to figure out the configuration and see if other .php sites suffer from this ailment and what actions did they take to overcome it.

I've never seen it. In fact, in over twenty years, I've not seen anything quite like the TTF server.

I really don't think it's an SMF problem. On the off chance that it is, how about we wait awhile? AFAIK, Richard Byrd is working on the SMF upgrade even as we speak (after a bout of seriously unpleasant gut problems), and the present version of SMF is really too old to be worth discussing anyway.

ttf_bbocaner · Post by **ttf_bbocaner** » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:45 pm

I'd wager it's something in the Apache configuration rather than the forum or php configuration. I wonder if perhaps the proxy is mangling the Via: header somehow in a way that is close enough for most applications but stumbles up some way the virtual hosts are defined in apache. It'd be very interesting to do a capture from the ttf server, or at least look at its apache logs.

ttf_Eastcheap · Post by **ttf_Eastcheap** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:48 am

Quote from: bbocaner on Oct 02, 2012, 03:45PMI wonder if perhaps the proxy is mangling the Via: header somehow...

No. The "Via:" line shown in the lagado screenshot above conforms to RFC2616. The proxy is doing precisely what it's supposed to do.

Quotebut stumbles up some way the virtual hosts are defined in apache.

The "Via:" entry has nothing to do with virtual hosting, and Apache knows it. Besides, I've never managed to make the server return anything except the plaintext MySQL-related error upon a request for a nonexistent host.

What appears to be happening is that, for some reason, the server admins have decided to block all requests from RFC2616-compliant gateways and proxies, not just smartphones.

Any "Via:" entry in the request header currently results in the following:

HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 10:11:04 GMT
Server: Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS)
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Content-Length: 5043
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">
<head>
<title>Apache HTTP Server Test Page powered by CentOS</title>

...

Note that the Status-Code is still 403. What's new is the server dishing up the Apache test page (which is a typical sort of thing for an incompletely configured server to do).

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:55 am

That's BIZARRE for it to be returning 403 AND the content!

ttf_Todd Jonz · Post by **ttf_Todd Jonz** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:49 am

Eastcheap writes:

> So far as I can tell, the VH system used by TTF's
> host is some kind of in-house thing that doesn't
> work very well.

TTF's new IP address, 54.243.192.52, is allocated to Amazon, which suggests to me that the Forum now runs in Amazon's AWS/EC2/S3 cloud. If that's the case then I should think Amazon's front-end would handle incoming requests and distribute them to an application processor.

Barry writes:

> That's BIZARRE for it to be returning 403 AND the content!

No extra charge.

ttf_Eastcheap · Post by **ttf_Eastcheap** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:07 pm

Quote from: bbocaner on Oct 03, 2012, 05:55AMThat's BIZARRE for it to be returning 403 AND the content!

Not really. RFC2616 suggests that you do just that:
10.4.4 403 Forbidden

The server understood the request, but is refusing to fulfill it.
Authorization will not help and the request SHOULD NOT be repeated.
If the request method was not HEAD and the server wishes to make
public why the request has not been fulfilled, it SHOULD describe the
reason for the refusal in the entity. If the server does not wish to
make this information available to the client, the status code 404
(Not Found) can be used instead.
Obviously, you should provide content that describes the reason for the refusal, not the I-just-installed-Apache test page.

Quote from: Todd Jonz on Oct 03, 2012, 09:49AMTTF's new IP address, 54.243.192.52, is allocated to Amazon, which suggests to me that the Forum now runs in Amazon's AWS/EC2/S3 cloud.

I think they may just be leasing space on an Amazon network. The server itself doesn't appear to be, functionally, very different from before.

In any case, it's my understanding that the current arrangement is temporary.

ttf_Todd Jonz · Post by **ttf_Todd Jonz** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:10 pm

Eastcheap writes:

> it's my understanding that the current arrangement is temporary.

This is where I get confused. I'm under the impression that the upgrade is complete, and that the Forum is now residing at its new home. (Edit: Doug Elliot set me straight in another thread, explaining that TTF is indeed running on an interim server.)

Aside to Eastcheap: Just FYI, the iOS autocowrecker wants desperately to change "Eastcheap" to "East heap." I'd complain to Apple if I were you.

ttf_tbonejeff · Post by **ttf_tbonejeff** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:18 pm

I just now tried accessing TTF from my AT&T Samsung Galaxy Note, running Android 4.0.4. The built-in browser went to the Apache page. The Opera mini browser went to TTF. The Dolphin browser went to the Apache page.

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:35 pm

I run the Dolphin Browser on my Android. Neither it nor the standard Android (Chrome) browser can access the site, but Opera Mini can. FWIW.

ttf_Todd Jonz · Post by **ttf_Todd Jonz** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:26 pm

Opera Mini works a little differently than other browsers in that it sends all requests through a proxy server operated by Opera that optimizes returned pages for display on a mobile device. I'm guessing that it does this on a socket rather than via an HTTP request, which would explain why Opera Mini works on Android where other browsers fail.

Opera Mini might prove to be a workaround for folks experiencing problems. Anybody running Opera Mini on iOS?

ttf_BlattDontSplatt · Post by **ttf_BlattDontSplatt** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:38 pm

My AT&T iPhone's IP address is 166.137.156.16 & TTF webpage now comes up as "Apache 2 Test Page" powered by Centos; prior to today, it just said that access is denied & forbidden. The only time I can connect correctly to TTF on my iPhone is when I'm connected 2 my WiFi

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:44 pm

Quote from: Todd Jonz on Oct 03, 2012, 04:26PM...

Opera Mini might prove to be a workaround for folks experiencing problems. Anybody running Opera Mini on iOS?

I ran Opera on my Motorola Q9 on Windoze CE through Verizon Wireless and it connected just fine. Problem was that the forum was very difficult to navigate due to limitations of the phone.

ttf_Eastcheap · Post by **ttf_Eastcheap** » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:02 am

Quote from: Todd Jonz on Oct 03, 2012, 03:10PMJust FYI, the iOS autocowrecker wants desperately to change "Eastcheap" to "East heap." I'd complain to Apple if I were you.

I don't much care, but I can think of some City banks that would find it pretty annoying.

Quote from: Todd Jonz on Oct 03, 2012, 04:26PMOpera Mini works a little differently than other browsers in that it sends all requests through a proxy server operated by Opera that optimizes returned pages for display on a mobile device.

That is interesting. I'd like to see what the lagado proxy test displays for Opera.

QuoteI'm guessing that it does this on a socket rather than via an HTTP request,

Another port, certainly. Actually, if the TTF server were configured to listen on some alternate port, I think the problem would go away WRT transparent proxies (this is commonly done for other protocols that ISPs like to fiddle with, like NNTP and SMTP).

Obviously, it would be better, and at least as easy, to stop needlessly discriminating against proxies in the first place. TTF is the only public site I've ever seen do so.

ttf_ddickerson · Post by **ttf_ddickerson** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:24 am

I just got the iPhone 4 for 99 cents from AT&T and set it up yesterday.

No problem with using here on the TTF. Works like a charm. I was leary about migrating from my Blackberry, but the migration went very smoothly.

ttf_Eastcheap · Post by **ttf_Eastcheap** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:03 pm

Quote from: ddickerson on Oct 23, 2012, 10:24AMNo problem with using here on the TTF.

It depends on where you are. Apparently, some cells go through the proxy and some don't.

The simplest solution, should you run into the problem, is probably to access TTF through any of the hundreds of free "stealth" proxies around.

ttf_Bach42BOS · Post by **ttf_Bach42BOS** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:24 pm

Quote from: Bach42BOS on Jun 18, 2012, 12:20AMfor some reason i can't seem to access the forum when my phone is on 3G. it used to work before but lately i've been getting this error message (about two months ago). when i'm running off wireless i can access the site without problem. any ideas what might be the cause of this? i have an iphone 3GS and my carrier is AT&T. My ip address is 166.147.88.23, located in Honolulu, HI. Thanks!

woot! I can now access the forum again regularly through AT&T's network without using wireless!

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:21 pm

I have this same problem of not being able to access the Forum from my Iphone. It used to work but now no longer.
Forbidden
<You don't have permission to access/index.php on this server
Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS) Server at tromboneforum.org Port 80>

Solutions people???

PKeen

ttf_Eastcheap · Post by **ttf_Eastcheap** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:24 am

Quote from: pkeen on Dec 20, 2012, 02:21PMSolutions people???

In the short term, go through a proxy that strips the "Via" line from your request headers (there's nothing you can do about it locally). In the long term, we need somehow to get complaints through to whoever hosts TTF. There's no good reason for this intolerable situation to exist.

You can try complaining to your provider (AT&T, I'm guessing), but, problem is, they aren't doing anything wrong. They're playing by the rules.

ttf_Todd Jonz · Post by **ttf_Todd Jonz** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:13 am

pkeen writes:

> Solutions people?

Try installing Opera Mini from the App Store (it's free) and use it to access the Forum. Opera Mini is not affected by this problem on Android devices and should work on iOS devices as well.