TromboneChat

Quote from: RedHotMama on Nov 04, 2007, 08:25AMWhat I do dislike are trombone players who apparently include "notes" just for the sake of them.
I absolutely agree.  And today's university system manufactures trombonists who end up with way more technique than music.  But I don't think that fairly applies to Rosolino.
Quote from: RedHotMama on Nov 04, 2007, 08:25AM[Rosolino] seems to me to come into the category of trombone players who, simply put, play too many notes and, moreover, too many high notes.
I never considered him an exceptionally high player.  He would throw in Ds and Ebs, but they were well within his command.  He tended to attack these high notes very hard, so they may be more memorable than other things he was doing.  They always struck me as exclamation points, (ed) not just playing high for show.  (On edit, changed "but" to "not", which was what I meant to say.)



As far as the number of notes, that definitely comes down to a matter of personal preference.  I'm generally in your camp about this.  I cringe when I hear trombonists playing lots of notes because almost none of them can do that very well.  To my ears, Rosolino is the only trombonist who pulls this off consistently in a musical way.  I've never heard a recording where his fast passages lose contact with the groove.  While his phrases aren't placed perfectly like a robot, his musical intent is always clear -- always.  And within that clearly expressed musical intent are really sophisticated musical concepts.  When I hear other trombonists trying to play fast, what I hear is mainly licks and cliches, and even on those well practiced cliches, they often find themselves separated from the groove inside of a couple of bars.

If you don't enjoy hearing fast playing, I have no argument with you.  But just don't judge Rosolino based on how other fast-playing trombonists sound to you.  He was one of a kind.

I originally wrote this the other day and I somehow deleted it.I think along the lines of: Frank played what his soul told him to play at that moment.Sometimes manic,sometimes melancholy,sometimes beautiful,sometimes nasty.All normal human emotions.The fact that he was always,or almost always on the edge,has been talked about,and I believe fairly well documented for those who have studied his history and demise.He was definitely flawed,like most of us.For whatever reason,those flaws caused him to do something extremely horrific.I don't bleieve his whole life should be judged by those last horrible moments.I like to think of all of the happiness and laughter and enjoyment he brought(and stil brings) to many people all over the world.
VHY
Bob

Yep, and it's those extremes in human emotions that, in part, make great artists great. Frank; one dimensional? Hardly. A bad seed? Not in my book.

I love Rosolino on trombone...not vocals...

There is no such thing as the best anything...but he is definitely up there in my book of the all time greatest.

NZ

OK. I now have to put myself into one of my own categories - those for whom this discussion will bring about an interest in Frank Rosolino. I had obviously put HIM into the wrong category. Are there any more online recordings towards which you can point me? (I'm not quite at the stage of wanting to buy any!).

I don't mind if most of today's jazz trombonists want to play multiple high notes. Go for it, guys. I just avoid their recordings and the bands in which they play. However, last night, at a benefit for a sick banjo player, I was on stage with three other trombonists, all of whom were male and twice my size, and all of whom played high and fiddly. I was pleased (and proud) to be able to stand up there and play, if not with as much technique, then at least with some (excuse me) balls.

You should have heard our version of Tiger Rag!

Mama i don't think any more recordings of Frank will do it "for you" i just don't think you are hearing it!!!
And i think you've already made your mind up about "nimble" trombonists.

BTW I'd be very interested to know who the other 3 bone players were that you played alongside!

Errrrrrrrm....

I don't know who two of them were, but the third was the guy who currently plays with Kenny Ball's jazz band. I believe his name is John Bennett. One problem with being a trombone player on the UK jazz scene is that you don't get to meet or play with many others. Last night was a rare treat, but even then I didn't get to speak to them. BTW, all three were excellent players.

However, the reason I'm now asking about Frank is because you guys are telling me that he is NOT just a nimble player, but something special. I would like to learn more.

Quote from: RedHotMama on Nov 05, 2007, 06:45AMHowever, the reason I'm now asking about Frank is because you guys are telling me that he is NOT just a nimble player, but something special. I would like to learn more.
At the end of the day, you may decide that this still isn't your cup of tea -- that his intensity is more of a distraction than a benefit to the musical message.  That's OK.  But I think you will agree there is more to his music than the normal hyperactive meandering one hears from so many trombonists.

Quote from: Piano man on Nov 03, 2007, 05:18PMAs someone who experienced mental illness in my family, I know it can be tricky to draw any conclusion about someone's personality or character from it. The onset of mental illness can be as unrelated to the person's underlying character as the onset of the flu or measles. The illness is more like an overlay than a part of the person.

In Roots of the Self, Robert Ornstein discusses a personality axis. On one axis we have something like "the ability to organize the world"---on one extreme there is obsessive-compulsive disorder, on the is schizophrenia. If you imagine a number line, most of us lie somewhere in the middle, although accountants, mathematicians, lawyers, for example may be slightly to the left and singers, dancers, artists, athletes may be slightly to the right of middle. Many of the most creative poets, artists and musicians happen to be "tilted" to the right as it were.

When one moves too far in either direction we have mental illness or an emotional disorder. There is no blame or moral judgment here----no more than catching the flu, measles or the common cold. But the long term effects on the human psyche can be much worse for mental disorders. Consider, too, that these things were not as well understood in Rossolino's day. What happened to him is tragic. It didn't affect any music he had already made.

It is appropriate for musicians to discuss Frank's music. And we will have our own emotional reactions to the circumstances of his death. I believe his death is irrelevant to a discussion of his music. Unless someone here is a practicing psychiatrist with access to his medical records, judgments about his personal life have no place here. This kind of false morality is really injurious and misplaced. It is also unseemly.

Are we really supposed to think, when listening to a musician or a composer----OMG, this was a man who went went crazy? Came down with syphilis? Had an affair with a slave? 

Quote from: RedHotMama on Nov 05, 2007, 01:11AM---snip--- all of whom played high and fiddly.
You made me spill my coffee!!!

Quote"High and fiddly."
No more perfect description of a style of jazz trombone playing to which I literally cannot stand to listen has ever been spoken.

Thank you.

Now...on to Frank again.

You say elsewhere here that you are being led to believe that he was something special.

He WAS something special.

He was a totally...and damned near uncopyable...original.

He never seemed to be able to play a bad note; he played with great rhythmic power and...when he decided to do so...with a modicum of physical power as well.

Plus...he could play in ways other than the patented "Rosolino" style. Witness his work on the film "In Cold Blood". After much searching, I found that it was he who was playing the absolutely amazing strange-muted trombone solos (I still can't figure out what the mute was.) on the Quincy Jones (or whoever Quincy hired to ghost for him) soundtrack.

My problem with listening to his playing is that early on in his career he settled into a mannerism and lick-based style that just doesn't hold my interest. Once he starts a line on a solo I can almost sing the next few bars of it. All those little turns. They just mask a lack of interest in digging deeper.In taking the easy route.

Now...that was his business and I am no one to be pointing fingers of blame at his personal life. He was a very successful working musician and soloist, and more power to him. However, my own tastes run more to people who take that extra chance, people who forever triy to get a little further both on the horn AND in their musical modes of expression.

Even if they fail once in a while.

So I do not listen much to him.

Don't try this at home; trained professionals are running this course; results may vary and that's what makes horseraces.

Etc.

We are all born pretty well hard-wired.

So it goes and may his soul rest in peace.

Later...

AG

Damned near uncopyable........................Exactly why I like him so much.

raw
rough and tumble
honest
ballsy
so very melodic

At or near the end of his life, he was one of the most pathos-laden improvisors I have heard.

Mama,Try to find some of his Ballad work.One of the later recordings that immediately comes to mind is on the tune "Violets" form a recording with the Metropole Orchestra.One of my personal favorites is "I don't Want to Run Around Anymore" from the "Converstaion" album with Conte Condoli.He was indeed an intense soloist most of the time,but on those occaisions when you could hear him playing more sparsely,those ar real gems in my mind,if you want dark sounding (psychologically speaking), playing,check out "Gloomy Sunday" from the last studio recording of Supersax(sorry,I don't recall the name of the recording).There are many,many more if you take the time to search them out.
VHY
Bob

QuoteAre we really supposed to think, when listening to a musician or a composer----OMG, this was a man who went went crazy? Came down with syphilis? Had an affair with a slave?
Well, yeah. Its becoming unavoidable and music does not exist in a vacuum. Again, if Hitler had been a trombone virtuoso, how many of you would enjoy his recordings. People and their music are the same thing as Sam has also pointed out.  Notes, and jazz music in particular which is why I'm hooked,  aren't just a pleasing arrangement of sounds. Someone is *responsible*  for them. And someone is responsible for the death of 2 children.

Coming down with Syphilis or having an affair with a slave is one thing. Shooting your kids is quite another wouldn't you say?

In my opinion Franks kids were worth much more than the sum total of every note Rosolino ever played. Better his music would have died and his kids lived no matter how much enjoyment those notes gave fans. 

In my humble opinion.

There's also another related issue to this discussion and that's the issue of responsibility. Other observers than my self have noted the decline in the concept of responsibility in  society. Maybe mental instability is not the entirely free pass some people give it. "Oh he went nuts, he's not responsible" being a subtext of this discussion. The truth is that we don't know what Frank's mental state was. Its also possible that underneath it all he was just an evil cat. I hope not.

Reading his biographies, I see no indication that he was "evil". And had he been, then surely he would just have shot the kids and not himself.

BTW, one of the children survived.

I found it interesting to read the comments of those associated with him at the time.

http://www.jazzmasters.nl/rosolino.htm#Joker

Quote from: BoneCall on Nov 06, 2007, 01:54AM Again, if Hitler had been a trombone virtuoso, how many of you would enjoy his recordings.


If he had been then he probably wouldn't have started all that trouble.

This discussion is actually pointless.

Either you like it or you don't.

I'm a big Rosolino fan as i am too a big JJ fan, oh and an Andy Martin, Bob McChesney, Carl Fontana, Hal Crook, Jack Teagarden, Trummy Young, Urbie Green etc, etc..........Blah, blah blah fan, the list goes on!!!!!

I find music, beauty, skill, soul, happiness, sadness, blah blah blah......... in their playing!!!

Their states of mind don't affect my enjoyment at all.

Who are we to judge their mental state anyway?

 

Yup, pointless, Chris. Someone (it's usually only one person) says he can't listen to the music because of the history behind it. Most other people ask what difference it makes to the music itself. Round and round and round, until someone starts slagging off another member and the topic gets locked. As I said, I don't intend for that to happen on this occasion, but it's still pointless.

TOTAL AGREEMENT!
VHY
Bob

Quote from: BoneCall on Nov 06, 2007, 01:54AM
Coming down with Syphilis or having an affair with a slave is one thing. Shooting your kids is quite another wouldn't you say?
How his disease manifested is National Enquirer stuff. I'm not criminalizing or comparing various human acts---just pointing out that they're irrelevant to a discussion of music.

There are people leading countries now who are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of children. You actually seem quite supportive of those child killers. And they don't even have the problems Rossolino had. It's just a different discussion than what one thinks of a man's music.

The most fundamental attribute shared by conservatives is their inability to empathize.  If the conservative has food in his belly, the hungry person must have a work ethic problem.  If the conservative has a roof over his head, then the homeless person must have wasted their opportunities.  If the conservative has health insurance, well ... they don't have much of an answer for the people who have no means for health coverage.

Conservatives cannot relate to things that do not affect them personally.  The only conservatives in favor of stem cell research are the ones like Nancy Reagan who are personally affected by a disease like Alzheimer's.  The only conservatives conserved about global warming are those who have a mansion on a beach that is being threatened by the rising sea levels as the polar ice fields and glaciers worldwide disintegrate.  The only conservatives who can be compassionate about gays are the ones like Cheney who have a gay person in their immediate family.

It turns out that this is not just a bad attitude, narcissism, selfishness or some other character defect.  It appears that this primary conservative trait is truly a mental illness -- a mild form of autism.  And the good news is that it may be curable.  I find this research very exciting.  I can't think of any medical breakthrough that could have a more beneficial effect on mankind.

Very interesting article

Frank was ill.  Mental illness is real.  If one has trouble empathizing with that, then maybe there will soon be a treatment available.

Amen Actikid........

What an interesting theory. Yet, my own mother is a conservative, and still has more empathy than just about anyone I know. She is a special ed. teacher, and knows much about mental problems. She would get a kick (and not in a good way) from your post. Oh, the irony.

Your remarks about conservatism and mental deficiencies strikes me as somewhat insulting. Yes, I know you aren't singling anyone out in particular, but categorizing and defining a large group of people (most of which you don't know) with such assurance is not very.... well, for lack of a better term... empathetic.

All conservatives are mentally ill. 

Great! You ought to volunteer that slogan for the next election. Its a real vote getter, that one.

QuoteFrank was ill.
How do you know? Because anyone who acts like that must be ill? To maintain that is to deny any possibility of evil in the world and any responsibility for it.

Thanks Dan H for your response to actikid. I'm definitely a conservative and find his comments to be very insulting. Oh the irony, indeed! Interesting how he turned this thread into conservative bashing. Talk about a mental disorder!

Quote from: BoneCall on Nov 06, 2007, 09:16AMAll conservatives are mentally ill. 

Great! You ought to volunteer that slogan for the next election. Its a real vote getter, that one.

How do you know? Because anyone who acts like that must be ill? To maintain that is to deny any possibility of evil in the world and any responsibility for it.






Someone that does what Rosolino did was ill.  No doubt about it.  At least to me.  Not that he wasn't responsible.  I believe that as well.  Mental illness shouldn't absolve you of a crime but can explain it.  Is there actually evil in the world?   I don't know.  I think "evil" is really a manifestation of mental illness of some kind.  Rosolino was ill and had he been able to seek help the tragedy might, I repeat might, not have happened. 

I find it interesting (in a pathetic way) that this turned into a political discussion. 

And that there are those here who are so wise that they can categorize everyone in two camps.  Because if that other camp were gone, everything would be right with the world...them and us.  Brilliant!

From the descriptions it's pretty obvious that Frank was manic depressive.  Also from many friends descriptions that NOW the realize what was going on and are much more aware of others suffering from manic depression.  Also these friends and colleagues delt with this betrayal/loss in many ways.  Some rallied to help the family, some won't talk about it, some blamed themselves.  For some it affected the way they percieve his music, in other they refuse to acknowledge his music.

I didn't find out about him until after his death.  Many untrue stories were floating around, garish trombone tabloid journalism at it's best.

When I did hear his music I always found it vital and energetic.  Yes, there are trombonastics...and I'm still impressed.  He took chances, stood with the best boppers of the time.  An icon of jazz and trombone.

Haters, continue on...

You can choose to not like Frank, but to say that he is not one of the best is ludicris, CRAZY, and most of all a LIE. You can challenge me on this, because most of the top jazz trombone players in the world hail Frank as one of the best.


"Frank Rosolino was towering genius and trombone virtuoso..." -JJ Johnson

Conrad Herwig made a transcription book on him.

John Fedchock produced a CD of unissued Rosolino recordings.

Carl Fontana once said that Rosolino was one of his favorite jazz players.

BTW Sabutin your an idiot, I bet your so called "young" players that you speak of dream of playing what Frank does. to quote you "I bet on it".

How do you know? Because anyone who acts like that must be ill? To maintain that is to deny any possibility of evil in the world and any responsibility for it.






[/quote]

His family has said that he was ill.

Max, please cool it with the personal insults. Thanks.

Go ahead delete my posts, block me, but I will not stop. It seems that all anyone has done on this page is bash Frank for his musical genius and mental disabilites which he had no control over. If anyone on this post even knew anything about Frank they would know that most of the greatest jazz trombonists in the world hold him in the highest reguard and consider him one of the greatest inspirations. SO no I will not stop. You can choose to not listen to Rosolino, but if you take jazz trombone seriously YOU will have to pay attention to his name and acknowledge him whether you like it or not.

Max, no one here is bashing frank, per-se - rather underlining their own personal preferences for how the trombone should sound.  A person not agreeing with the statement "Frank is the greatest" is not bashing your hero.  It's okay that you dig him as much as you do.  Just don't expect everyone else to think that it all starts and stops with Frank.  There are guys I like much better than Frank... that doesn't change the fact that i love the guy's playing.  I just don't think he's "the greatest" - a stupider title i've never heard.

Quote from: macree01 on Oct 17, 2009, 08:59PM
BTW Sabutin your an idiot, I bet your so called "young" players that you speak of dream of playing what Frank does. to quote you "I bet on it".


Have you actually checked out any of these young players?  I'd reckon you haven't.  The state of the trambone in NYC, hell, in the world for that matter, is pretty ridiculous - in a good way.  The reasons for this are pretty clear:  They have the benefit of the entire spectrum of Jazz history up to this day to draw from, so it not surprising that this current crop of new guys has an even deeper grasp of the horn than their predecessors.   Most of them have the entire spectrum of Jazz trombone experience in their bag. 

People tend to have strong feelings about Sam - that's okay, his sometimes brutal honesty and strong opinions tend to dictate that.  I wouldn't call him an idiot, however -  this is a personal attack that does nothing to make your point, whatever that is.  Despite the fact you may disagree with him - which is okay - given his stature in the trombone community and the length of his resume i think he's entitled to his opinion.  Disagree with him - fine.  Tell us why you disagree with him.  Frankly if you heard him play, it wouldn't matter as much to you.

We're all acknowledging Frank was good - it's just that some of us prefer JJ, Slide, Knepper, Teagarden, Priester, Butter, Tricky Sam, Beckett, Brown, Cleveland and Curtis To Roz and Fontana - it's just a matter of personal preference.

Say what you will about Frank, his playing, and the obviously tragic ending.  Here's Gloomy Sunday from Supersax's "Dynamite", recorded in Germany in the mid-70's.  Frank's playing continues to move me like few others in the jazz world, trombonist or others.

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/380186/06%20-%20Gloomy%20Sunday.mp3

RIP

Another for us all to check out:

"I Just Don't Want to Run Around Anymore" from Frank and Conte Condoli's album, Conversation, recorded in Italy in the mid-70's.  I recently found this in a two-fer CD reissue on Lonehill Jazz from Spain.  Please pardon the audio on this LP transfer w boomy bass.  Just eq it down a bit.

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/380186/I%20Just%20Don%27t%20Want%20to%20Run%20Aroun.mp3

RIP

What can I say...I'm in a sharing mood today when it comes to Frank's music and spirit.  I hope you listen and enjoy.

RIP

[url=http://www.snapdrive.net/files/380186/Star%20Eyes.mp3
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/380186/0 ... solino.mp3
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/380186/T ... 20Love.mp3]http://www.snapdrive.net/files/380186/Star%20Eyes.mp3
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/380186/0 ... solino.mp3
http://www.snapdrive.net/files/380186/T ... 20Love.mp3[/url]

I dont give a crap, You dont bash Rosolino and get away with it, and Sabutin was definatley bashing Frank. Frank is like Mozart, you dont have to like him, but to not acknowledge his awesomeness is CRAZY, and I repeat CRAZY!!! If someone was just sharing an opinion that would be fine. If someone was just saying, oh I dont really care for the guys style then yes that would be totally fine I would have no problem. But I know for a fact that several people on this post, NOT 1 BUT MANY, have been bashing Frank like he was stick in the mud. I SAY NO!! I will not stand for this, especially since Frank has inspired so many people around the WORLD.

Quote from: ctingle on Oct 18, 2009, 04:48PMSay what you will about Frank, his playing, and the obviously tragic ending.  Here's Gloomy Sunday from Supersax's "Dynamite", recorded in Germany in the mid-70's.  Frank's playing continues to move me like few others in the jazz world, trombonist or others.

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/380186/06%20-%20Gloomy%20Sunday.mp3

RIP

I agree man, this recording is very inspiring.

Quote from: macree01 on Oct 18, 2009, 05:33PMYou dont bash Rosolino and get away with it, and Sabutin was definatley bashing Frank.
Sam's last post on the topic was over two years ago.  Here's some of what he said.  Doesn't sound in any way like bashing to me.

Quote from: sabutinHe WAS something special.

He was a totally...and damned near uncopyable...original.

He never seemed to be able to play a bad note; he played with great rhythmic power and...when he decided to do so...with a modicum of physical power as well.

Plus...he could play in ways other than the patented "Rosolino" style. Witness his work on the film "In Cold Blood". After much searching, I found that it was he who was playing the absolutely amazing strange-muted trombone solos (I still can't figure out what the mute was.) on the Quincy Jones (or whoever Quincy hired to ghost for him) soundtrack.

Quote from: macree01 on Oct 18, 2009, 10:18AMIf anyone on this post even knew anything about Frank they would know that most of the greatest jazz trombonists in the world hold him in the highest reguard and consider him one of the greatest inspirations.

Emphasis added.

You might want to oonsider that some of the best jazz trombonists in the world post on this forum (I'm not one of them). They might already know what they think without you telling them.

Everyone here has listened to Frank extensively, and they're entitled to like or not like his playing. His personal history is a major cause of strife in this forum--some people think it's off limits and some people can't get past it.

As a person who grew up with mental illness in my immediate family, I agree with you that it's a disease and shouldn't sully his contribution to music. We could be having a similar conversation about Wagner, or Leni Riefenstahl, or Woody Allen, or Roman Polanski, or Jerry Lee Lewis.

Some people say the art is everything, some can't quite get there.

C'mon folks. Don't take this guy seriously. He is either consciously trolling here and performing a good imitation of a semi-illiterate, low IQ fanboy of some kind or...oh well, you can figure out the other option. Either way...why waste the energy?

S.

P.S. By the way. Just for the record, I personally think that Frank Rosolino was an amazingly gifted musician. He was a great player physically, a great player in terms of his ability to play inside of changes, and a total original on the instrument. And the same thing can be said about Carl Fontana. That said, I almost never, ever listen to their music...or the music of those who were most influenced by them...for the purposes of musical pleasure. Different strokes for different folks. Sue me.

This general lack of interest that I have in their playing is a quite natural and unconsidered one. When I was 14 and started listening seriously to jazz their playing simply did not particularly interest me and that was true for no apparent reason whatsoever. I was more attracted to the playing of other trombonists. Teagarden, Dorsey, Urbie, J.J. and Curtis Fuller particularly. Then I heard Jimmy Knepper (EUREKA!!!), discovered Bill Harris, Trummy Young and Tricky Sam Nanton, and ran into the whole latin thing with Barry Rogers, José Rodriques etc. Years later it began to occur to me exactly why those choices came about...it has to do with melodic line, rhythmic approach and variance of attack, the kinds of rhythm sections with which they all worked  (One way or another, relatively aggressive ones.) and above all, the timbre of a certain kind of projected sound.

So it goes.

If we are going to allow ourselves to be driven into discussions about musicians by their obsessed fanboys, let us at least discuss the music on some sort of real, articulate level. Of course Frank Rosolino and Carl Fontana played their asses off. But why is there a whole school of trombonists...a dominant school in terms of the last several generations of  jazz players...that doesn't really relate to their playing in terms of physical or conceptual approach?

There's a good topic!

P.P.S. Frank's tragic end? The world is a viciously stupid place on many levels, and the gifted among us are more sensitive to that stupidity than are most others. Some of them lose it. So it goes. Should we ignore Bird and Mozart because they essentially took themselves out? Do so at your own peril.

Quote from: sabutin on Oct 19, 2009, 09:56AM...
If we are going to allow ourselves to be driven into discussions about musicians by their obsessed fanboys, let us at least discuss the music on some sort of real, articulate level. Of course Frank Rosolino and Carl Fontana played their asses off. But why is there a whole school of trombonists...a dominant school in terms of the last several generations of  jazz players...that doesn't really relate to their playing in terms of physical or conceptual approach?

There's a good topic!
...

Indeed.  I really can't understand what that whole school of trombonists is thinking!   

Really, I listen to and enjoy and learn from all the greats, but some appeal more than others.  That doesn't make a difference in greatness, though. 

Not all styles of the greats may be accessible to all ambitious players.  I find Frank's style impossible.  Ray Anderson's, too.  Among other greats.  Some styles are accessible, even to me.  It gives me great happiness to realize the style of a great player is ...  unh, unh, stretch! ... almost within reach.  Not quite, but I can see it pretty close!

It wakes me up in the morning.  That's good. 

Quote from: macree01 on Oct 17, 2009, 08:59PM
BTW Sabutin your an idiot, I bet your so called "young" players that you speak of dream of playing what Frank does. to quote you "I bet on it".


Okay now, this sort of name calling is not acceptable in the forum. Be nice. 

Quote from: ctingle on Oct 18, 2009, 04:48PMSay what you will about Frank, his playing, and the obviously tragic ending.  Here's Gloomy Sunday from Supersax's "Dynamite", recorded in Germany in the mid-70's.  Frank's playing continues to move me like few others in the jazz world, trombonist or others.

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/380186/06%20-%20Gloomy%20Sunday.mp3

RIP

Chip, that solo is one of the most emotionally moving of any instrumental solo - trombone or otherwise - that I ever heard. I remember hearing this the first time. I was almost moved to tears.

And the ironic thing is, he killed himself on a Sunday.

Quote from: ctingle on Oct 18, 2009, 05:22PMWhat can I say...I'm in a sharing mood today when it comes to Frank's music and spirit.  I hope you listen and enjoy.
Chip:
Thanks so much for taking the time to post these links. I poured a coffee, slapped the headphones into the 'puter and had a very nice morning. Thanks, too, for redirecting the topic to where it should have been all along!

Nice tracks.....you grow  by taking what you want from what is presented to you....this is "taste"....if it speaks to you, you keep it, if it doesn't resonate, you let it go....trying to please everyone/be pleased by everyone is pointless. It's nice to see people so passionate about certain players....better to become the player that people are passionate about tho....just sayin.

Quote from: Sean Joseph on Oct 19, 2009, 04:50PMNice tracks.....you grow  by taking what you want from what is presented to you....this is "taste"....if it speaks to you, you keep it, if it doesn't resonate, you let it go....trying to please everyone/be pleased by everyone is pointless.

Amen

Hey, it's good to read that people are back to listening to and considering Frank's playing.

Greg, I share your feelings about this track, and other ballads that caught Frank really singing.  When this goes into time maybe half way through, he's swinging so hard, his time and phrasing just hits me on every level.  I thank all ye bonistas on this thread for helping me rediscover a long lost friend in "Gloomy Sunday".

Sam, muy thanks for your insight, commentary, and probing questions for all of us to consider, yet again.  Your suggested topic would be solid for many reasons, especially considering elements of race, geographical style trends and tastes, the whole east vs. west thing that somehow continues to enter the jazz taste equation for whatever reasons, etc...I think there is actually a good DownBeat or JazzTimes or NPR level piece to be done on this at the right time, getting a round table together of various players from various "schools" to talk freely with each other about Frank, his playing, and his life. 

Picture a sit down with Slide Hampton, Curtis Fuller, Michael Dease, David Gibson, Sabutin, Steve Turre, Robin Eubanks, Michael Davis, Urbie Green, Conrad Herwig, Scott Whitfield, Andy Martin, Bob McChesney, Bill Watrous, John Fedchock, Bill Reichenbach, John Alred, Elliot Mason, Luis Bonilla....ok, stopping now....for example.

RIP

And off topic:

Anyone know how to get my email notification to work again?  I used to receive replies to my posts or watched threads by email, but this isn't working despite my best efforts.  Any help would be much appreciated.

Quote from: ctingle on Oct 19, 2009, 10:50PMAnd off topic:

Anyone know how to get my email notification to work again?  I used to receive replies to my posts or watched threads by email, but this isn't working despite my best efforts.  Any help would be much appreciated.

It's a Forum infrastructure problem.  Sometimes it works, sometimes not.  Sometimes it's because you are trying to track too many threads.  Sometimes it's "spacemenz" (or maybe intervention from the Flying Spaghetti Monster)   I know Richard has looked into this in the past, but we haven't really seen an explanation or a fix.

Back to topic.

I'm not going to get into a discussion about whatever he did in his personal life,that is not our business here.

All I'm going to say here is that he was the trombonist whose playing clearly influenced my style as it has evolved.

Yeah,JJ and Watrous and Fontana influenced my playing,but Rosolino was and is the standard-bearer for how I play and what I listen to.

Quote from: RedHotMama on Nov 01, 2007, 03:46AMJust in my own humble opinion, I find his playing, at least on that clip, to be completely lacking in "soul" or "feeling", and also monumentally tedious. What IS the point of playing like that?
Try "Blues for Basie" from Buddy Rich Album,"This One's For Basie"./