yeah for once [or twice]
I BEAT QUINN
----
let him get a WW pigtail for 600 once
Quote from: bachbone on Apr 01, 2009, 08:11AMOh, I thought it was a bid... lucky lucky!
Earl Williams Trombone
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ttf_dj kennedy
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ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: dj kennedy on Apr 01, 2009, 08:44AMyeah for once [or twice]
I BEAT QUINN
----
let him get a WW pigtail for 600 once
I am catching up with Quinn though... He is fast, but I am learning his tricks to be even faster. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I BEAT QUINN
----
let him get a WW pigtail for 600 once
I am catching up with Quinn though... He is fast, but I am learning his tricks to be even faster. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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ttf_paulthetrombonist
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Earl Williams Trombone
I was thinking it might be a good idea for those Williams owners put up a pic of their horn on this forum. Here is my Tulsa!
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ttf_HouBassTrombone
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Earl Williams Trombone
So I have a broad question... Can someone tell me a brief history of Earl Williams and why his trombones are so great? Is it because of the rarity or who played them?
Thanks so much!
-Z
Thanks so much!
-Z
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ttf_BarryLee
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Earl Williams Trombone
He got his start working for F.E.Olds
(edited by Doug Elliott)
(edited by Doug Elliott)
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ttf_DaveAshley
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Earl Williams Trombone
Here's a video of Conrad Herwig and Rick Stepton both on Williams 6's playing "Bugle Call Rag" with Buddy Rich.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrNWl_UGePs
and "Love For Sale":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml92frTqYk0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrNWl_UGePs
and "Love For Sale":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml92frTqYk0
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ttf_Exzaclee
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Earl Williams Trombone
hey dave - that's the thorpenator on the end there (trumpet section)
conrad looks young!
Z
conrad looks young!
Z
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ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
http://www.myspace.com/williamstrombones
Earl Williams Custom Trombones Earl started making horns about 1923 with Spike Wallace. Spike was a trombonist with the Los Angeles Philharmonic. Earl made Wallace Williams until about 1938 or 40. The he went to work for Departmentt of Defense. Earl made some kind of telescopic tubing, brass, until about 1945. He also made aluminum arrow shafts, also drawn, for long range use. These arrows were supposed to go about 2 miles and were pneumatically/hydraulically launched. At the end of World War Two he was given an enormous amount of cartridge brass. He used this for horns until his death in 1976. The earliest horn I have seen configured like the Burbank California horns is from 1946. It is owned by a gentleman in Chicago. He bought it from Earl at Lyon and Healy in Chicago, in early 1946. I think maybe Earl was working for or with Conn. Conn made the stencils for Lyon and Healy at that time. That is the only reference I can find to Earl not being in California. He had about 3 designs for tuning in the slide he used and patented one. He had patents on the curved hand grip an spit valve as well. If you would like copies of the patents let me know and I will send you a copy. I have seen a .460 bore Wallace .485, .500 and .520, .522 and a dual bore .510/.522 Wallace Williams. The modern horns we have are .490 model 4, a model 5 had an "F" attachment. An odd numbered model indicates and "F" attachment. .500 model 6 and 7, .520 model 8 and 9, and a .565 single trigger Bass trombone. The basses were Conn 72H bells. All rotor valves were Conn. There 12 basses made and I can account for 7 of them. Only about 4 are all original. Most have had slides replaced, 72H was a common replacement, and a second trigger added. The bells Earl got from Conn were very raw. They had not been strapped or anything other than spun. Model 6 horns had bells from 7.5 inched to about 8,5" Model 4's were from about 7.25 to about 7.75 inches. The 8 was from about 8.5 to 9.5" the 10 was 9.5 to 10". There is some limited serial number info I have developed by talking to original owners that were able to document when horns were purchased. So if you send me your serial numbers and a brief description of whether they are Los Angeles or Burbank horns I can come close to the age. He did not use consecutive serial number by model. Serial numbers were by location. Los Angeles, on Santa Monica Blvd, then Burbank. The trademarks went as follows. Los Angeles horns had an arrowhead engraved on the bell, Burbank had Earl Williams Custom Trombones Burbank Ca on the bell stem. Next came Donnellson TN. They said Donnellson Tenn., Earl Williams Custom trombones on the bell stem serial number started at 10xxx. Then came Calicchio, Irma and her son Chris Weiks. Irma was Dominic's daughter. They were acid etched Calicchio on the upper cork barrel and started at 10001. Then it was owned by Richard Chovner in Riverside Ca. Rich is a really good guy and kept it about 5 years. He realized he did not have the knowledge to build horns. He did do a few slides and tubes and that was it. He put it in storage until Bart Dalton, current owner, bought it for his wife. Mainly in her name to keep it separate from Calicchio.
John Noxon sent me an email kinda like this. Found the site and copied and pasted.
Earl Williams Custom Trombones Earl started making horns about 1923 with Spike Wallace. Spike was a trombonist with the Los Angeles Philharmonic. Earl made Wallace Williams until about 1938 or 40. The he went to work for Departmentt of Defense. Earl made some kind of telescopic tubing, brass, until about 1945. He also made aluminum arrow shafts, also drawn, for long range use. These arrows were supposed to go about 2 miles and were pneumatically/hydraulically launched. At the end of World War Two he was given an enormous amount of cartridge brass. He used this for horns until his death in 1976. The earliest horn I have seen configured like the Burbank California horns is from 1946. It is owned by a gentleman in Chicago. He bought it from Earl at Lyon and Healy in Chicago, in early 1946. I think maybe Earl was working for or with Conn. Conn made the stencils for Lyon and Healy at that time. That is the only reference I can find to Earl not being in California. He had about 3 designs for tuning in the slide he used and patented one. He had patents on the curved hand grip an spit valve as well. If you would like copies of the patents let me know and I will send you a copy. I have seen a .460 bore Wallace .485, .500 and .520, .522 and a dual bore .510/.522 Wallace Williams. The modern horns we have are .490 model 4, a model 5 had an "F" attachment. An odd numbered model indicates and "F" attachment. .500 model 6 and 7, .520 model 8 and 9, and a .565 single trigger Bass trombone. The basses were Conn 72H bells. All rotor valves were Conn. There 12 basses made and I can account for 7 of them. Only about 4 are all original. Most have had slides replaced, 72H was a common replacement, and a second trigger added. The bells Earl got from Conn were very raw. They had not been strapped or anything other than spun. Model 6 horns had bells from 7.5 inched to about 8,5" Model 4's were from about 7.25 to about 7.75 inches. The 8 was from about 8.5 to 9.5" the 10 was 9.5 to 10". There is some limited serial number info I have developed by talking to original owners that were able to document when horns were purchased. So if you send me your serial numbers and a brief description of whether they are Los Angeles or Burbank horns I can come close to the age. He did not use consecutive serial number by model. Serial numbers were by location. Los Angeles, on Santa Monica Blvd, then Burbank. The trademarks went as follows. Los Angeles horns had an arrowhead engraved on the bell, Burbank had Earl Williams Custom Trombones Burbank Ca on the bell stem. Next came Donnellson TN. They said Donnellson Tenn., Earl Williams Custom trombones on the bell stem serial number started at 10xxx. Then came Calicchio, Irma and her son Chris Weiks. Irma was Dominic's daughter. They were acid etched Calicchio on the upper cork barrel and started at 10001. Then it was owned by Richard Chovner in Riverside Ca. Rich is a really good guy and kept it about 5 years. He realized he did not have the knowledge to build horns. He did do a few slides and tubes and that was it. He put it in storage until Bart Dalton, current owner, bought it for his wife. Mainly in her name to keep it separate from Calicchio.
John Noxon sent me an email kinda like this. Found the site and copied and pasted.
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ttf_JohnL
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: HouBassTrombone on Apr 03, 2009, 09:41PMSo I have a broad question... Can someone tell me a brief history of Earl Williams and why his trombones are so great? Is it because of the rarity or who played them?
Thanks so much!Koda has provided the history, but you're probably still asking why his trombone are so great. The short answer is that that play great.
These are hand-made horns, built by a guy that really knew what he was doing. Much like Shires or Rath, but Earl's was an even smaller operation (mostly just Earl, as I understand it). At one time, the Williams 6 was the gold standard for quite a few top LA studio guys.
There's a lot of theorizing and debating that goes on about why the Williams horns play the way they do. Some proposals:
1) Superior craftsmanship.
1) Different proportions - the horn gets larger sooner, so the bell throat and tail of a 6 is larger than that of, say, a Conn 6H.
2) There is less of a step at the stocking, so there is less of a step in the bore transitioning between the inner and outer slides.
3) Magic metal: Williams reportedly purchase a load of surplus cartridge brass from the government after WWII and made all of his horns from that same batch of material.
4) DJ says all of Earl's horns are haunted.
Thanks so much!Koda has provided the history, but you're probably still asking why his trombone are so great. The short answer is that that play great.
These are hand-made horns, built by a guy that really knew what he was doing. Much like Shires or Rath, but Earl's was an even smaller operation (mostly just Earl, as I understand it). At one time, the Williams 6 was the gold standard for quite a few top LA studio guys.
There's a lot of theorizing and debating that goes on about why the Williams horns play the way they do. Some proposals:
1) Superior craftsmanship.
1) Different proportions - the horn gets larger sooner, so the bell throat and tail of a 6 is larger than that of, say, a Conn 6H.
2) There is less of a step at the stocking, so there is less of a step in the bore transitioning between the inner and outer slides.
3) Magic metal: Williams reportedly purchase a load of surplus cartridge brass from the government after WWII and made all of his horns from that same batch of material.
4) DJ says all of Earl's horns are haunted.
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ttf_DaveAshley
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Earl Williams Trombone
There's definitely something to be said about the fact that nobody has been able to perfectly duplicate Earl's trombones. Calicchio came pretty close (this last time anyway), but there were still issues.
I don't know about "magic metal", but they say that the best Selmer Mark VI saxes were made of some special military surplus brass as well.
All I know is nothing comes close to the sound, playability, and comfort of my 6.
I don't know about "magic metal", but they say that the best Selmer Mark VI saxes were made of some special military surplus brass as well.
All I know is nothing comes close to the sound, playability, and comfort of my 6.
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ttf_Exzaclee
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Earl Williams Trombone
so am i the only guy on here who gets up at 4AM looking for a BIN of $150 on a newly listed williams?
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ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Exzaclee on Apr 05, 2009, 09:52PMso am i the only guy on here who gets up at 4AM looking for a BIN of $150 on a newly listed williams?
You are not the only one...
You are not the only one...
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ttf_Richard Tadaki
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: DaveAshley on Apr 05, 2009, 08:53AM
All I know is nothing comes close to the sound, playability, and comfort of my 6.
I agree with Dave 100% on this. I've had my Williams 6 since 1971 and have played a few other trombones since then but nothing comes close.
And, yes, I check eBay everyday hoping to find a Williams, any Williams, with a BIN. But I'm willing to go up to $300!
All I know is nothing comes close to the sound, playability, and comfort of my 6.
I agree with Dave 100% on this. I've had my Williams 6 since 1971 and have played a few other trombones since then but nothing comes close.
And, yes, I check eBay everyday hoping to find a Williams, any Williams, with a BIN. But I'm willing to go up to $300!
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ttf_Alex McMahon
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Earl Williams Trombone
I don't think it's the materials in the horn that makes them mystical (since it's still available). I think it's the fact that we've put them on a pedestal (rightly) for having excellent craftsmanship. I'd put my money on the craftsmanship over the materials. I was speaking with a repairman/tech that I greatly respect and he told me it was a load of crap.
Some (if not most) Williams horns were made from surplus 'cartridge' brass. The alloys in the metal, and the exact combination, are listed in 'Machinery's Handbook' in a big chart. This alloy is still around, and fairly widely used in some of the bigger horns, but there's nothing remarkable about it. I think it's been abandoned because it was mainly used in industrial aspects. Other combinations, from what I understand, are used for musical instruments because of their ease of metalworking. If anything, people weren't using cartridge brass because it was hard to work by hand and they didn't really want to work that hard for it. You could probably have a horn made from it, if you could find a metal company willing to sell it in a small supply and someone willing to pound it out and create something.
Dimension wise, they are a little different- but not totally different than anything you could find with Kanstul or the more boutique companies. My Williams 9 seems to be built almost like a Conn 88H-K (but with a slightly tighter sound because of the .520 bore) but plays much different because of materials. Bracing and tuning of the instrument also add to it-- the tuning slide goes all the way down the gooseneck into the back of the valve. There is minimal flat bracing connecting the attachment and there is relatively little extra material in the valve area since Earl used a tension spring like on a woodwind (reducing the amount of excess solder joints). There are a lot of things on the horn that when I look at it, I kinda say 'huh, wish some other people would have thought of that. AGAIN.' Very intelligent designs- I wonder how much of that can be attributed to Spike Wallace?
Earl was a trooper to use hard materials and make superior instruments. Hands down. Was it just the metal- no. Craftsmanship/Intelligence- I think so.
Some (if not most) Williams horns were made from surplus 'cartridge' brass. The alloys in the metal, and the exact combination, are listed in 'Machinery's Handbook' in a big chart. This alloy is still around, and fairly widely used in some of the bigger horns, but there's nothing remarkable about it. I think it's been abandoned because it was mainly used in industrial aspects. Other combinations, from what I understand, are used for musical instruments because of their ease of metalworking. If anything, people weren't using cartridge brass because it was hard to work by hand and they didn't really want to work that hard for it. You could probably have a horn made from it, if you could find a metal company willing to sell it in a small supply and someone willing to pound it out and create something.
Dimension wise, they are a little different- but not totally different than anything you could find with Kanstul or the more boutique companies. My Williams 9 seems to be built almost like a Conn 88H-K (but with a slightly tighter sound because of the .520 bore) but plays much different because of materials. Bracing and tuning of the instrument also add to it-- the tuning slide goes all the way down the gooseneck into the back of the valve. There is minimal flat bracing connecting the attachment and there is relatively little extra material in the valve area since Earl used a tension spring like on a woodwind (reducing the amount of excess solder joints). There are a lot of things on the horn that when I look at it, I kinda say 'huh, wish some other people would have thought of that. AGAIN.' Very intelligent designs- I wonder how much of that can be attributed to Spike Wallace?
Earl was a trooper to use hard materials and make superior instruments. Hands down. Was it just the metal- no. Craftsmanship/Intelligence- I think so.
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ttf_Richard Tadaki
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Earl Williams Trombone
Okay, here's a picture of my Williams 6. Notice the nickel slide crook. This one was made in 1971 so I've been told that that's an unusual feature. I hope the picture gets posted correctly. I have no idea what I'm doing.
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ttf_Richard Tadaki
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Earl Williams Trombone
PS The reason my Williams still looks pretty good is that it was relacquered by Larry Minick in the early 80's.
R
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ttf_Bach42BOS
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Earl Williams Trombone
richard,
your horn looks like a gem!!!
your horn looks like a gem!!!
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ttf_Richard Tadaki
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Earl Williams Trombone
Yep. I'm really proud of it.
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ttf_Bach42BOS
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Earl Williams Trombone
haha i'd be too!
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ttf_anonymous
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Exzaclee on Apr 05, 2009, 09:52PMso am i the only guy on here who gets up at 4AM looking for a BIN of $150 on a newly listed Williams?
Hey, that's when the fishing is best! Some naive soul will come across his dad's horn after the funeral. Not knowing its worth - or caring to research it - he offers it on Ebay for a ridiculously low buy now price!
It happens!
I picked up a '66 Bach 12 at around 3 in the morning a few years ago for $500. Sweet!
Hey, that's when the fishing is best! Some naive soul will come across his dad's horn after the funeral. Not knowing its worth - or caring to research it - he offers it on Ebay for a ridiculously low buy now price!
It happens!
I picked up a '66 Bach 12 at around 3 in the morning a few years ago for $500. Sweet!
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ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Exzaclee on Apr 05, 2009, 09:52PMso am i the only guy on here who gets up at 4AM looking for a BIN of $150 on a newly listed williams?
I look at 3:55 AM
I look at 3:55 AM
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ttf_Exzaclee
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Earl Williams Trombone
GMT?
HAH!
HAH!
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ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Exzaclee on Apr 07, 2009, 07:37PMGMT?
HAH!
No way am I getting up that early! You got me on that one.
HAH!
No way am I getting up that early! You got me on that one.
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ttf_MoominDave
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Earl Williams Trombone
3.55 AM GMT is late afternoon Koda time, surely?
There are definitely eBay advantages to living a few hours ahead of the US...
There are definitely eBay advantages to living a few hours ahead of the US...
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ttf_SilverBone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Never had the opportunity to try a Williams trombone.
If I run across someone in the Portland (OR) area with one, I'd love to have a try at it. See what all the fuss is about.
If I run across someone in the Portland (OR) area with one, I'd love to have a try at it. See what all the fuss is about.
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ttf_HouBassTrombone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Yea I agree with that.
-Z
-Z
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ttf_sly fox
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: MoominDave on Apr 08, 2009, 01:53AM3.55 AM GMT is late afternoon Koda time, surely?
There are definitely eBay advantages to living a few hours ahead of the US...
yeah, yeah,
but you pay for it when you pay international shipping fees.
There are definitely eBay advantages to living a few hours ahead of the US...
yeah, yeah,
but you pay for it when you pay international shipping fees.
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ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: SilverBone on Apr 08, 2009, 02:13AMNever had the opportunity to try a Williams trombone.
If I run across someone in the Portland (OR) area with one, I'd love to have a try at it. See what all the fuss is about.
I would be willing to let you play mine. Just send me a PM if you are REALLY interested. Probably would have to drive to my house in the Forest Grove because I don't drive
If I run across someone in the Portland (OR) area with one, I'd love to have a try at it. See what all the fuss is about.
I would be willing to let you play mine. Just send me a PM if you are REALLY interested. Probably would have to drive to my house in the Forest Grove because I don't drive
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ttf_Alex McMahon
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Earl Williams Trombone
Here it is.
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ttf_JohnL
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: Alex McMahon on Apr 06, 2009, 06:28AMVery intelligent designs- I wonder how much of that can be attributed to Spike Wallace?Spike Wallace wouldn't have been the only influence; Earl Williams built horns for a lot of really good players, and I'm sure some of them offered suggestions. He might have also been influenced by Frank and Reg Olds and Earl Strickler. There's also some indication that Earl worked for Conn during or right after the war.
Spike was elected president of Local 47 in 1939; the common history has Wallace and Williams parting ways sometime around 1938-1940; probably not a coincidence. As far as I can tell, Spike also left the LA Phil at about the same time. Maybe there was a union rule about officers and outside income, maybe he wanted to concentrate on running the local (probably a more-than-full-time job in those days). There's some indication that he might have had health issues, too (his obit mentions an illness dating back several years).
To be honest, I don't think there's a lot of Spike Wallace in the later Williams horns. The garden-variety Wallace looks doesn't look much like a post-WWII Williams.
Spike was elected president of Local 47 in 1939; the common history has Wallace and Williams parting ways sometime around 1938-1940; probably not a coincidence. As far as I can tell, Spike also left the LA Phil at about the same time. Maybe there was a union rule about officers and outside income, maybe he wanted to concentrate on running the local (probably a more-than-full-time job in those days). There's some indication that he might have had health issues, too (his obit mentions an illness dating back several years).
To be honest, I don't think there's a lot of Spike Wallace in the later Williams horns. The garden-variety Wallace looks doesn't look much like a post-WWII Williams.
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ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Ok, I did a little experiment on my Williams 
I found an Olds beginner trombone that sounded horrible! When I say horrible, I mean, might as well throw it in a garbage.
Hooked the Williams slide up to the bell and tada! It sounded good. Very close to the Williams feel, but a darker sound. Next, I hooked up the Williams bell to the Olds slide and it still sounded good?????? Both combinations were equally the same in playability.
Has anyone done experiments on their Williams and found the same thing?
I found an Olds beginner trombone that sounded horrible! When I say horrible, I mean, might as well throw it in a garbage.
Hooked the Williams slide up to the bell and tada! It sounded good. Very close to the Williams feel, but a darker sound. Next, I hooked up the Williams bell to the Olds slide and it still sounded good?????? Both combinations were equally the same in playability.
Has anyone done experiments on their Williams and found the same thing?
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ttf_jnoxon
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Earl Williams Trombone
Sure people have doen that. Dick Nash played a Wms bell and a Bach slide for a long time. Check out the Shiela Tracy interview, I think that is where it was mentioned.
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ttf_paulthetrombonist
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Earl Williams Trombone
I have hooked up the wms bell with shires slide and vice versa. Works but Ill be sticking with the original combination.
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ttf_jnoxon
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Earl Williams Trombone
I finally got the model 10's back from John Sandhagen on Saturday. Excellent work as always from John. Kind of ironic after owning a repair shop for the better part of 20 years I hate working on Bones. Thankfully John is close by! They are both great horns. Unbelievably warm big fat sound, just like a Williams. If you lean on them they will bark and give you a good biting sound.
Now comes the hard part which one to keep? And what to do with other one? One was Bob Olson's horn. Kenton Live at the Tropicana. He was with Stan in 57 and 58. Wally Heider got him the gig, they grew up on adjoining dairies in Oregon. Bob thought he was gonna play bass bone so that is what he brought. He told me Stan liked that sound and that is when the double bass started in the bone section. The other horn was Karl DeKarske's horn. He was one of the LA Studio guys. Everything from Ella Fitzgerald to a lot of work for Mancini. So great horns and great players owned them.
I will get some photos in the profile in a couple of days if you want to see them. There was 12 Basses made by Earl. 7 were kind of a 72H style and the last 5 were the pigtail wrap like the model 9. Long slide tubes, good low "C", and similar wrap to the Conn. After all of these years I can account for 8 of the original 12 and one bell. Not bad for 60 year old horns!
Anyway more to follow!
Now comes the hard part which one to keep? And what to do with other one? One was Bob Olson's horn. Kenton Live at the Tropicana. He was with Stan in 57 and 58. Wally Heider got him the gig, they grew up on adjoining dairies in Oregon. Bob thought he was gonna play bass bone so that is what he brought. He told me Stan liked that sound and that is when the double bass started in the bone section. The other horn was Karl DeKarske's horn. He was one of the LA Studio guys. Everything from Ella Fitzgerald to a lot of work for Mancini. So great horns and great players owned them.
I will get some photos in the profile in a couple of days if you want to see them. There was 12 Basses made by Earl. 7 were kind of a 72H style and the last 5 were the pigtail wrap like the model 9. Long slide tubes, good low "C", and similar wrap to the Conn. After all of these years I can account for 8 of the original 12 and one bell. Not bad for 60 year old horns!
Anyway more to follow!
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ttf_john sandhagen
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Earl Williams Trombone
Yesterday at the Boneyard I found another one I think...Norm Fleming has one in Cambria...I talked with Matt about it.
Noxon's going to the dark side...
Noxon's going to the dark side...
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ttf_Richard Tadaki
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: jnoxon on Apr 20, 2009, 09:48AM... After all of these years I can account for 8 of the original 12 and one bell. Not bad for 60 year old horns!
Anyway more to follow!
Quote from: john sandhagen on Apr 20, 2009, 09:59AMYesterday at the Boneyard I found another one I think...Norm Fleming has one in Cambria...I talked with Matt about it.
In a different thread, forum member svenlarsson said that he played a Williams bass. He said, "In the 70:s I played a Williams bass, often the lead trombone hade a medium Williams and the third player had a Williams with a 8 ½ inch bell, must have been a 522 bore. Sometimes we had a section of four or five Williams trombones."
I wonder if Sven knows where it is?
I may be inferring too much but there seems to be a lot of Williamses in Sweden and Norway.
Aloha,
Richard
Anyway more to follow!
Quote from: john sandhagen on Apr 20, 2009, 09:59AMYesterday at the Boneyard I found another one I think...Norm Fleming has one in Cambria...I talked with Matt about it.
In a different thread, forum member svenlarsson said that he played a Williams bass. He said, "In the 70:s I played a Williams bass, often the lead trombone hade a medium Williams and the third player had a Williams with a 8 ½ inch bell, must have been a 522 bore. Sometimes we had a section of four or five Williams trombones."
I wonder if Sven knows where it is?
I may be inferring too much but there seems to be a lot of Williamses in Sweden and Norway.
Aloha,
Richard
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ttf_jnoxon
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Earl Williams Trombone
Johanssen (sp) Music in Malmo was a Williams dealer. They used to buy about 10 to 15 at a time. This was in the early to mid 70's. That is how they got there, Sweden anyway. That was the only overseas dealer I have ever heard of. The rest seemed to migrate with road bands and word of mouth. I found my 8 by googleing Williams trombones. One showed for sale in a store in Malmo, guess which one, it was a consignment sale. So I bought it!
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ttf_Richard Tadaki
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: jnoxon on Apr 20, 2009, 07:04PMJohanssen (sp) Music in Malmo was a Williams dealer. They used to buy about 10 to 15 at a time. This was in the early to mid 70's. That is how they got there, Sweden anyway. That was the only overseas dealer I have ever heard of. The rest seemed to migrate with road bands and word of mouth. I found my 8 by googleing Williams trombones. One showed for sale in a store in Malmo, guess which one, it was a consignment sale. So I bought it!
Hmm... I need to widen my search and start googling for Williams trombones instead of just looking at eBay or TTF classifieds. Thanks for the tip.
Richard
Hmm... I need to widen my search and start googling for Williams trombones instead of just looking at eBay or TTF classifieds. Thanks for the tip.
Richard
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ttf_lingon
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: jnoxon on Apr 20, 2009, 07:04PMJohanssen (sp) Music in Malmo was a Williams dealer. They used to buy about 10 to 15 at a time. This was in the early to mid 70's. That is how they got there, Sweden anyway. That was the only overseas dealer I have ever heard of. The rest seemed to migrate with road bands and word of mouth. I found my 8 by googleing Williams trombones. One showed for sale in a store in Malmo, guess which one, it was a consignment sale. So I bought it!
Well, Johansson Music in Malmo was maybe the importer and also a dealer, but at the same time I bought mine from Birka Music in Stockholm who first sold both the 8 you mentioned plus a couple of others included Svenne's 10. I also ordered a 10 after Svenne had got his, but unfortunately it was never ever delivered...
About your 8, which was sold to you a very short time before I called the store to buy it..., it was originally bought from Birka Music, sometime in the beginning of the 70s, by Jorgen Johansson former solo trombonist in Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra. Jorgen and Svenne and a third great guy, Torgny Nilsson with a 6, were as far as I know the first to use Williams trbns as a whohle big band section here in Sweden. And WOW!! what a section, gorgeous! I remember there was a section picture in the Birka Music store with these guys and the descriptive text "Williams New Perfection".
I also got my 9s from Birka Music and am aware of one other guy that also did. But then I do not think so many more of them were sold that way. A couple were maybe ordered but never reached Stockholm. Then there was another 9 imported directly from the US by one musician in Stockholm. Maybe a couple of others too.
Well, Johansson Music in Malmo was maybe the importer and also a dealer, but at the same time I bought mine from Birka Music in Stockholm who first sold both the 8 you mentioned plus a couple of others included Svenne's 10. I also ordered a 10 after Svenne had got his, but unfortunately it was never ever delivered...
About your 8, which was sold to you a very short time before I called the store to buy it..., it was originally bought from Birka Music, sometime in the beginning of the 70s, by Jorgen Johansson former solo trombonist in Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra. Jorgen and Svenne and a third great guy, Torgny Nilsson with a 6, were as far as I know the first to use Williams trbns as a whohle big band section here in Sweden. And WOW!! what a section, gorgeous! I remember there was a section picture in the Birka Music store with these guys and the descriptive text "Williams New Perfection".
I also got my 9s from Birka Music and am aware of one other guy that also did. But then I do not think so many more of them were sold that way. A couple were maybe ordered but never reached Stockholm. Then there was another 9 imported directly from the US by one musician in Stockholm. Maybe a couple of others too.
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ttf_jnoxon
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Earl Williams Trombone
Let me fill in the blanks. The guy running Johansson's did not want to mess with the sale because the horn was on consignmnet from Jorgen. He just kept putting me off with a bunch of crappy excuses. I guess it did not pay enough commission for him to do a long distance sale. So Jorgen took it back from the shop after a couple of months. The guy in the store happened to give him my name and told him I was interested but I was a pain in the a** always bugging him. So he Jorgen my email. He contacted me because nobody over there was interested in the horn. But boy I sure was! So I bought it for a little under $1000.00 US as I remember. About $1150.00 with shipping.
It is a fantastic horn, could not ask for a better model 8.
It is a fantastic horn, could not ask for a better model 8.
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ttf_svenlarsson
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Earl Williams Trombone
Birka Musik did get the horns from USA.
The suplies stopped because there was no new horn built by Earl left.
After that Johanson got horn that was put together with parts that was leftover.
There was never as many as 10 Earl Williams trombones in Sweden.
The suplies stopped because there was no new horn built by Earl left.
After that Johanson got horn that was put together with parts that was leftover.
There was never as many as 10 Earl Williams trombones in Sweden.
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ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
OK, sorry if I am not going with the flow with the discussion, but has anyone noticed this: Near the bell stem, it feels pretty thick, while the farther you go out (near the bell rim) it is extreemly thin. You could dent it with your fingernail if you want to.
Just courious.
Just courious.
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ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Calicchio has one more "Williams" 6 for sale $2400 for the puppy. The last one that will be made in a really long time. I had a very lengthy conversation with the gentleman who owns the company and he doesn't see a good future for the Trombones.
It sounds as if the company is switching hands again due to a break in a family. The gentleman I spoke with told me that he found a lot of Earl's tricks, that others will have to figure out by themselves. Wish I could buy the last 6, but I really need to focus on college and focus my money spending there.
Whoever gets it will be lucky. The last one built to specs to the original Williams.
It sounds as if the company is switching hands again due to a break in a family. The gentleman I spoke with told me that he found a lot of Earl's tricks, that others will have to figure out by themselves. Wish I could buy the last 6, but I really need to focus on college and focus my money spending there.
Whoever gets it will be lucky. The last one built to specs to the original Williams.
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ttf_jnoxon
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Earl Williams Trombone
What years in the 70's did you guys by your horns from Birka and Johansson's? Earl died in 1976, then Bob passed in 1979.
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ttf_bachbone
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Earl Williams Trombone
Birka Musik is going out of business soon. Already checked with them about Williams Trombones, and they said they haven't had a trombone in several years.
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ttf_lingon
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: jnoxon on Apr 21, 2009, 04:58PM...Let me fill in the blanks. The guy running Johansson's did not want to mess with the sale because the horn was on consignmnet from Jorgen...
Yes I heard that there was some trouble with shipping to the US. Things are a bit complicated in this country, especially now with the EU...
About your 8, actually you bought it from the 2nd owner which is a nice big band guy in Malmo. Jorgen was the original owner. And it was Jorgen and exactly this horn that gave me the impulse to get my 9s. This 8 is as you said fantastic. Does it still has the removable lead pipes?
BTW, you may have mentioned it earlier in the thread, but is it a series 1xxx or 3xxx horn? And I don't remember the details, does it have the single or dual radius slide crook?
Yes I heard that there was some trouble with shipping to the US. Things are a bit complicated in this country, especially now with the EU...
About your 8, actually you bought it from the 2nd owner which is a nice big band guy in Malmo. Jorgen was the original owner. And it was Jorgen and exactly this horn that gave me the impulse to get my 9s. This 8 is as you said fantastic. Does it still has the removable lead pipes?
BTW, you may have mentioned it earlier in the thread, but is it a series 1xxx or 3xxx horn? And I don't remember the details, does it have the single or dual radius slide crook?
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ttf_lingon
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: svenlarsson on Apr 22, 2009, 05:27AM...There was never as many as 10 Earl Williams trombones in Sweden...
A quick counting of the instruments I know here in Sweden would be 7 back in the days... Now I know of 4 and a later imported Wallace/Williams...
Swedish and Nordic Williams owners please let us know.
A quick counting of the instruments I know here in Sweden would be 7 back in the days... Now I know of 4 and a later imported Wallace/Williams...
Swedish and Nordic Williams owners please let us know.
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ttf_lingon
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: jnoxon on Apr 23, 2009, 10:11AMWhat years in the 70's did you guys by your horns from Birka and Johansson's? Earl died in 1976, then Bob passed in 1979.
Well, as far as I remember it was about 1974-75, what do you say Svenne (schlagerfestivalen 3 Williams)? I remember the price SEK 4500 for a 9 which did correspond to approximateely USD 1050...
Well, as far as I remember it was about 1974-75, what do you say Svenne (schlagerfestivalen 3 Williams)? I remember the price SEK 4500 for a 9 which did correspond to approximateely USD 1050...
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ttf_lingon
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Earl Williams Trombone
Quote from: bachbone on Apr 23, 2009, 11:24AM... Already checked with them about Williams Trombones, and they said they haven't had a trombone in several years...
Birka was originally a great percussion and wind instruments store but did change ownership and in later years concentrated mostly on percussion. So unfortunately no Williams left (I already checked many years ago)...
Birka was originally a great percussion and wind instruments store but did change ownership and in later years concentrated mostly on percussion. So unfortunately no Williams left (I already checked many years ago
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ttf_svenlarsson
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Earl Williams Trombone
QuoteWell, as far as I remember it was about 1974-75, what do you say Svenne That is about right. The first time I used my horn, witch was the first Williams in Stockholm,
Was in October 1974 I checked with the Lp album Lee Hazlewood Live at Berns witch was the first time I used the (brand new) horn. I did not understand how loud I was playing with that horn; there was kind of bass trombone solo in most of the tunes on that Lp.
It was not supposed to be like that.
It was bought from Birka musik as all the other Earl Williams trombones.
After latest 1976 there were no Earl Williams trombones coming to Stockholm.
The horns that Johansson got after 1975 or 76 (?) was not assembled by Earl.
My Williams 10 is now owned by an amateur trombonist in Sundbyberg close to Stockholm.
I sold it to my teacher Carl-Otto Naesen who latter sold it because his teeth problems forced him to stop playing.
I sold the horn because I always had a problem blending in sections of other brands.
You could not hide that horn.
Was in October 1974 I checked with the Lp album Lee Hazlewood Live at Berns witch was the first time I used the (brand new) horn. I did not understand how loud I was playing with that horn; there was kind of bass trombone solo in most of the tunes on that Lp.
It was not supposed to be like that.It was bought from Birka musik as all the other Earl Williams trombones.
After latest 1976 there were no Earl Williams trombones coming to Stockholm.
The horns that Johansson got after 1975 or 76 (?) was not assembled by Earl.
My Williams 10 is now owned by an amateur trombonist in Sundbyberg close to Stockholm.
I sold it to my teacher Carl-Otto Naesen who latter sold it because his teeth problems forced him to stop playing.
I sold the horn because I always had a problem blending in sections of other brands.
You could not hide that horn.