High range sharp and low range flat...

[micka572]

Hi, when I'm tuned on a good middle Bb tuning note, low Bb flat is considerably flat and pedal in first I have an little bit flat A instead of a Bb.

First G outside the part and above is incresingly sharp the more I play high.

Have I missed something ?

[Burgerbob]

Horn and mouthpiece?

[micka572]

Yamaha .547 f att with a Bach 6.5A

[Burgerbob]

That's not a crazy equipment choice. Make sure your spit valve is not leaking and your valve is oiled.

Low Bb and pedal Bb are very easy to bend, especially down, which could explain that.

[micka572]

I know it's easy to bend but it feel very lock'd when I play it.

[Basbasun]

Are you a mouthpiece buzzer? Or maybe even a free buzzer?
Can you buzz the Bb octaves? Can you free buzz the higher tones?
Have you tried another horn?

[micka572]

No I rarely buzz.

[Doug Elliott]

The mouthpiece is either too small or too big for you.
Too small could be making the high range sharp and forcing to you collapse everything flat to play low.
Too big could be making you pinch the high range sharp and becoming unfocused and flat in the low range.

Depending on your chops and level of development, a 6.5 could be wrong for you either direction. It's generally a very middle-of-the-road size, but not for everybody. And the 6.5A is probably not a very good match to a .547 bore horn anyway.

It could also be you and how you're playing. I would have to see you play.

[micka572]

Interesting...
Can you explain why it's not a good match for a .547?

Too big I definitly don't think so because the amont of air it require for me to play.

[Doug Elliott]

I'm not talking about the amount of air, I'm talking about how the rim size (inside diameter) interacts with your face. Some people really need smaller or larger.

The cup, throat, and backbore of the 6.5 size mouthpieces usually doesn't work very well on .547 horns. It's more suited to smaller bores.

[Posaunus]

The cup, throat, and backbore of the 6.5 size mouthpieces usually doesn't work very well on .547 horns. It's more suited to smaller bores.

I started playing a 0.547" bore trombone with a 6½AL mouthpiece (same cup, but slightly smaller throat than a 6½A for large-shank pieces), but eventually felt it was too small for the horn, as Doug Elliott implies. Switched to a somewhat larger piece (in my case, a Schilke 51) and found it to be much more comfortable. Intonation not really a problem if I've been playing enough to be in shape!

But a 6½AL-sized mouthpiece works well on my medium-bore trombone (though I've found some similar-sized pieces are better for me than Bach's).

[micka572]

Here in France the 6.5 kind of is pretty standard among orchestra musicians

[Basbasun]

I tried this afternoon a 12C on my basstrombone 562 bore. It kind of sounded wierd, not really like a bass trombone.
But all octaves was in tune. I played scales and 5 Bb in different octaves. The I plugged in a tuba piece, Bach 18. The whole horn was flatt, but the Bb octaves was in tune except the Bb 4 that was a bit flatt, not more that iot was correct if the slide was at the bumper.
Many pro trombonists play large bore tenors with 6 1/2 size pieces in Sweden, in the 60s and 70s even smaller pieces. I do not believe the OPs problem can be solved with another mpc.
Try another horn, is the problem still there? Have another player try your horn. Is the problem still there? Well if so it is the horn. Could be. But I believe it is you. Do you take lessons?

[sungfw]

Many pro trombonists play large bore tenors with 6 1/2 size pieces in Sweden, in the 60s and 70s even smaller pieces.

Be that as it may, that's irrelevant to whether or not a 6.5-sized piece is an appropriate, much less the best, size for the OP.

I do not believe the OPs problem can be solved with another mpc.

No one's claiming that simply changing to a larger or smaller mouthpiece is going to solve the problem entirely, but it may partially alleviate the problem, thereby making it easier to fix, or it may exacerbate it. But the OP won't know unless he/she tries different sizes. Sticking with a particular mouthpiece size because it's what all the kool kids play is nonsensical, particularly when, as in the OP's case, the issues are symptomatic of a size mismatch. As Sabutin was wont to say on TTF, "Work smarter, not harder," and "Try everything; use what works ... FOR YOU."

What is lost by trying a few different sized mouthpieces, besides a few weeks time and a modest amount of money (and not even that if s/he can borrow a few mpcs from other players)? It's not like a few weeks trying larger and smaller mpcs is going to permanently damage the OP's chops, or that the mpcs can't be resold. In the worst case, the mpcs exacerbate the issues and the OP returns to the 6.5, with the additional knowledge borne of experience that the 6.5 size is the right size for him/her at his/her current state of development.

Try another horn, is the problem still there? Have another player try your horn. Is the problem still there? Well if so it is the horn. Could be. But I believe it is you.

If the problem is still there when the OP tries another horn, and isn't there when another player plays the OP's horn, the OP still needs to try different sized mouthpieces to eliminate the possibility that the 6.5 is either too large or too small for the OP's face.

[Basbasun]

Many pro trombonists play large bore tenors with 6 1/2 size pieces in Sweden, in the 60s and 70s even smaller pieces.

Be that as it may, that's irrelevant to whether or not a 6.5-sized piece is an appropriate, much less the best, size for the OP.

I do not believe the OPs problem can be solved with another mpc.

No one's claiming that simply changing to a larger or smaller mouthpiece is going to solve the problem entirely, but it may partially alleviate the problem, thereby making it easier to fix, or it may exacerbate it. But the OP won't know unless he/she tries different sizes. Sticking with a particular mouthpiece size because it's what all the kool kids play is nonsensical, particularly when, as in the OP's case, the issues are symptomatic of a size mismatch. As Sabutin was wont to say on TTF, "Work smarter, not harder," and "Try everything; use what works ... FOR YOU."

What is lost by trying a few different sized mouthpieces, besides a few weeks time and a modest amount of money (and not even that if s/he can borrow a few mpcs from other players)? It's not like a few weeks trying larger and smaller mpcs is going to permanently damage the OP's chops, or that the mpcs can't be resold. In the worst case, the mpcs exacerbate the issues and the OP returns to the 6.5, with the additional knowledge borne of experience that the 6.5 size is the right size for him/her at his/her current state of development.

Try another horn, is the problem still there? Have another player try your horn. Is the problem still there? Well if so it is the horn. Could be. But I believe it is you.

If the problem is still there when the OP tries another horn, and isn't there when another player plays the OP's horn, the OP still needs to try different sized mouthpieces to eliminate the possibility that the 6.5 is either too large or too small for the OP's face.

The OP may try different mouthpieces, preferably together with a good teacher. When he/she believe the mouthpiece is the right size, it is time to look at the problem. It is possible that a change of mpc in it self could be a start over and the problem solves it self. Could be. As you see there are many different possibilitys.
That said, I had in the past lots of students with this problem, as many other teachers with the same experience.
After trying the above tips it is time to see a embouchure doctor if the problem is still there.

[baileyman]

It's amazing how often standard equipment is at fault for playing problems.

[sungfw]

It's amazing how often standard equipment is at fault for playing problems.

+1