Vienese trombones

[8parktoollover]

When and why did the stop using vienna trombones?

[BGuttman]

How is a Vienna trombone different from a German trombone?

The German style trombone is not popular outside the Germanic countries, but it is still used and is still sold.

German style trombones have a different sound and do not seem to blend well with the trombones usually used in American symphonies. Still, many pros keep a German style trombone that they will trot out for performances of Mahler or Bruckner. Generally the whole section will play German style trombones.

[8parktoollover]

Check some older films of ythe vpo and you'll notice the vienese trombone

[norbie2018]

You've piqued my interest: how are they different from traditional German trombones?

[JohnL]

Check some older films of ythe vpo and you'll notice the vienese trombone

Some links would be useful.

[Kbiggs]

Here’s an article from Max and Heinrich Thein about German trombones.

[Sorry about the length of this post. I downloaded this from the Thein website a while ago. I couldn’t find it today, so I did a cut-&-paste from an iBooks document. It looks like notes from a presentation that Max or Heinrich may have given.]

Characteristics of „German trombone“
1) Historical principles:
- The „German trombone“ is an artistic product, which has developed as a part of community and arts in general
Rough oversight of German history:
- old times: a lot of German tribes
- medieval: Emperor Karl der Große united the tribes of „Heiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation“. It covered nearly whole Europe. But after Karl the Empire was devided more and more in a variety of more of less independent courts, cities kingdoms, clerical areas etc.
This variety concurred each other, mostly in architecture, (military) and music arts.
For example the courts had a competition about the biggest trumpets-ensemble. Even poor regions like Prussia concurred and created extra ordinary artwork with simple materials. All these different regional art centres have been influenced over hundreds of years by Italy and it`s classical arts and artists.
- 19. Century:
Romantic as a sadly review of medieval helped to create a German Nation „Deutschland“ under Bismark 1870 and unification, but still up today regions concur with their cultural identity and variety: Hamburg, Köln, München, Leipzig Dresden, Berlin, Frankfurt. But also smaller centres like Heidelberg and Bremen have their identity.
Under this background we find a tradition of the „German trombone“ in Germany with the principles of German identity in common:
- The idea that man shall have a cultural soul
- Vision of an ideal concept like the universality of human being.
Influenced by German idealism from Renaissance and Goethe, instruments were created as artwork (Art for the artists), for use in church, opera and symphony.
Also Amateur music and instruments have been influenced by this thinking.
- Variety of different instrument makers in different metropols with different models to figure out the ideal concept.


Characteristics of „German trombone“
2) Technical principles:
- goldbrass and nickelsilver, in reduced wallthickness
- more and more reduced wallthickness to the bell end
- bell from one part with a straight soldering line
- hard flexible and thin consistence of the brass material
- Kranz (garland) in nickel silver with engravings
- air between Kranz and bell
- due bore slide
- delicate building concept
„ fragilita“ (ital.) – fragile, delicate
(price after weight: The lighter the weight, the higher the price = Edward Kruspe`s philosophy)
- rhythm between very light and more heavy parts of the instrument.
- hyperbolic building concept:
narrow due bore slide and wide opened bell end.
- open handbrace at the other slide
- handcrafted = less machine work, more artwork:
handhammered bells, rolled tubes, soldered cones, handwork at the
lathe, long waterclap.
- individual model`s for the players
- „fit the horn to the player“ by knowledge of building and
individualisation principles.
- set of sizes:
size 1 = solotrombone
size 2 = assistant and second trombone
size 3 = third trombone
size 4 = fourth trombone, small basstrombone size 5 = big basstrombone
- Creation of a homogen and complete instrument family:
- soprano, alto, tenor, bass, contrabass, double contrabass trombone
- variety of different regional influenced models
- creation of mouthpiece: rich outer shape for acoustical reasons.


Characteristics of „German trombone“
3) Musical principles:
- changing of the basic vocal from piano to fortissimo o – a – e
- individuality of every tone and register colours the musical
phrases uniquely
- coming into pianissimo without a step
- „endless“ fortissimo , always 10 % reserve to give more.
Vocal „a“ to vocal „e“ signals „forte“.
- pianissimo on vocal „o“ is already singing and signs a clear phrase.
- overtone rich sound: th
the overtones in every tone prefer the 5., 6. and 7 2bigandonesmallterz,whichgivesmore„colour“than quintand octave-overtones.
- vocal and expressive sound:
like a singer`s whole body sings, a „ germantrombone“ sounds from each part of the instrument, not only at the bell end. The whole trombone is an acoustical space.
- the wide bell end produces a wide angel of sound, which is able to mix and creates a symphonic sound. German trombones can colour up every orchestra instrument. Wonderful organ like trombone section (Bruckner) and trombone choir.


Characteristics of „German trombone“
4) Concept of a today „German trombone“
German has developed to an European region with its own identity and traditions.
On the background of an unique training-system for apprenticeship and a multi-scientistic work together and „round-table“ non hierarchic methods, the typical „German trombone“ developed to an „Universal instrument“ and is a conclusion of tradition, arts and science. This means that not only works from Schumann, Bruckner, Brahms, Wagner and Makler should be played on „German trombones“, but also modern works, big band music and - why not jazz - to play on them.
Expressivity and vocalicity are the main qualities of these instruments.
Is there any music that could not be played and expressed by such instruments?
Jo Alessi from New York Philharmonic expressed shortly his THEIN- GIII:“This is my horn, I like it.“

© Heinrich Thein 2000