Kanstul

[JohnL]

It's not clear how much of the former Olds tooling was there at Kanstul, so I'm not holding my breath on any Olds models being resurrected. Even if the tooling is there, there's a big question as to whether there would be enough demand to make it worthwhile. It's not like people were lining up for Olds horns back when the factory closed in 1979.

Mike has been in possession of (and has apparently been using) the Olds George Roberts model bell mandrel for a while now (he mentions it on his website). OTOH, I know that MK Drawing ended up with at least some of the duo-octagonal slide dies.

I hope to someday see BAC Custom tubas and euphoniums. Maybe even French horns. Zig Kanstul put a lot work into developing those models; it'd be a shame for all of it to come to naught.

[mrdeacon]

Mike has been in possession of (and has apparently been using) the Olds George Roberts model bell mandrel for a while now (he mentions it on his website). OTOH, I know that MK Drawing ended up with at least some of the duo-octagonal slide dies.

His website makes a point of mentioning that. I'm not sure how often he actually uses the mandrel.

JohnL what was the throat like on the Olds Roberts horns anyways? Was it like a 70H or more the wide throat 62Hish throat?

[Tbarh]

I have mixed feelings about this deal. On one hand it's great that we might have another shot at Kanstul and Olds horns. Kanstul stuff was very affordable, and kind of minimalist design . On the other hand BAC has a reputation for severely overpriced and kind of ornate stuff.

Exactly ... I would feel i was paying for fancy szchmanzy tube loops and weird finish rather than the utmost care for sound, "owners pride" and longevity.. I Wish he made a separate brand for the "Liberace horns" and a separate division where he focus on good quality horns that are semi-affordable and where forms follow function.. And speaking if bass trombones.. I hope he would ressurect the Williams 10 bass trombone, why not with a separate tuning slide with an extra D valve making it a convertable tru inline double.. An almost illusive horn that would otherwise be lost.. I would buy! And the leadpipes too!

[JohnL]

JohnL what was the throat like on the Olds Roberts horns anyways? Was it like a 70H or more the wide throat 62Hish throat?

Unfortunately, I do not have any non-Olds horns for comparison.

[baBposaune]

BAC aquired Kanstul Musical Instruments.

[JohnL]

BAC aquired Kanstul Musical Instruments.

Is that statement based on any new information? At last word, BAC was purchasing tooling and maybe parts, but not the company (i.e., the name) itself.

[baBposaune]

My industry source said "BAC bought Kanstul." Usually this would mean they bought the whole enchilada: name, etc. It may take a few days for me to get the full story from BAC but when I do I will update and or clarify the details.

[baBposaune]

Go to the Facebook page for B.A.C. Musical Instruments "Best American Craftsmen" and watch the video and hear what Mike Corrigan has to say on the topic.

[JohnL]

Go to the Facebook page for B.A.C. Musical Instruments "Best American Craftsmen" and watch the video and hear what Mike Corrigan has to say on the topic.

I watched the video from June 6 (where he starts on the production floor, points out Earl Williams' old lathe and some mandrels, then walks down into the lower floor and shows the stacks of stuff from Anaheim). He's still being very careful about using the name "Kanstul"; you'll notice that he only says it in reference to being able to provide parts. Otherwise, it's "a factory in Anaheim".

It's still not entirely clear just how much he bought, though we now know for certain that the transaction included parts as well as tooling. He does mention that there's a larger, newer lathe on the way, which may well be from the Kanstul factory (though he's not specific on that point).

[disco]

"We did not purchase the name brand rights"

[baBposaune]

As Arte Johnson would say, "Veeery interesting....."

[JohnL]

"We did not purchase the name brand rights"

Just to clarify - this is a quote from Mike Corrigan's Facebook live feed on 6/17. Here is the video:

He makes the statement at around the -33:38 mark.

This video also gives us some more information as what all was included in the acquisition. It wasn't just tooling and parts, but also large production machinery (lathes, draw benches, presses, etc.). It would seem that BAC pretty much got the entire factory.

It's going to take quite a while to sort through all that stuff, particularly since they have to keep BAC's existing production going while doing so.

[Schlitz]

.

[Posaunus]

Getting those bell mounts, leadpipes, etc, BACK into production, should be a high priority.

May not be a high priority for Mike Corrigan. Expect he's pretty busy already - if nothing else trying to identify and inventory everything (surely including a lot a junk) he bought from Kanstul.

BAC will probably do what makes financial sense for their business. Kanstul lovers will have to keep their fingers crossed.

[mrdeacon]

I wish the videos being made since receiving the stuff from Kanstul would be shorter. They're all these 20 minute long epics with only 3 minutes of pertinent info. I've only been able to make it through a couple of them!

[Schlitz]

.

[mrdeacon]

It turns out that several people made offers on the Kanstul tooling. The plot thickens. My impressions right now are that BAC was just buying tooling to increase production. For the dinosaurs out there, it’s like AOL buying Time Warner.

oooooh spicy! Does make sense and lines up with some of the stuff that's been said in the videos. He makes a point of mentioning production in his videos. Doesn't bode well for our dreams of getting all these random parts and widgets reproduced

[BflatBass]

The Kanstul Musical Instruments page on Facebook has a list of their remaining horns for sale and they list their email if you want more info or you can PM them on FB for a quicker response.
I'm surprised there's anything left. I would've thought they'd have gotten rid of everything by now. Lots of tbones on that list including a Contra and a couple of "Proto" trombones that I'm assuming are prototypes?

Robert

[mrdeacon]

Some of the stuff being sold is sorta over priced other stuff is stupid cheap. They had a couple of French horns for $500 and a 3/4 F tuba for a $1000! I was 10 minutes late on the tuba : (

I think the cheap stuff has all been sold till they go full fire sale mode.

[LarryPrestonRoberson]

...Lots of tbones on that list including a Contra and a couple of "Proto" trombones that I'm assuming are prototypes?
Robert

Wouldn't a "Proto" trombone be a sackbut?

[mrpillow]

Wouldn't a "Proto" trombone be a sackbut?

Not if you're Italian.

[tbonesullivan]

This makes me sad. I'm just glad that unlike with trumpets and other valved instruments, there's not many parts for my trombones that are really "proprietary", except for the CR valves on them. Still it was nice to know I could easily get parts, and fabrication shouldn't be problem.

They really did make some nice horns. It's a shame that they couldn't survive in the current market.

[Molefsky]

This makes me sad. I'm just glad that unlike with trumpets and other valved instruments, there's not many parts for my trombones that are really "proprietary", except for the CR valves on them. Still it was nice to know I could easily get parts, and fabrication shouldn't be problem.

They really did make some nice horns. It's a shame that they couldn't survive in the current market.

What makes me sad is that I think they could have if they'd been smarter about promotion and endorsements.

[hojoos]

I haven't heard that! Seriously? Why on earth would they close up shop? Didn't they just release a new line of trumpets and make a showing at NAMM?

[Posaunus]

I haven't heard that! Seriously? Why on earth would they close up shop? Didn't they just release a new line of trumpets and make a showing at NAMM?

Why would they close up shop?

Perhaps because:
• The company founder (Zig Kanstul) died
• The remaining company management was a little shaky and not as committed as Zig
(not a fact, just my speculation)
• The marketing strategy was amorphous
• Lots of competition, domestic and foreign
• The products were not competitive
• The company was not very profitable
• The company was no longer economically viable

These are purely guesses on my part, since I have no personal inside knowledge!

Capitalism is cruel!

[Molefsky]

I disagree that the products were not competitive. They absolutely were, in fact that made some of their competitors' instruments for them at different points in time.