Earl Williams Trombone

ttf_Bach42BOS · Post by **ttf_Bach42BOS** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:21 pm

Wow o wow

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=261175654037&index=8&nav=WATCHING&nid=33825944449

This is the first WW I've seen with bell tuning.

ttf_vegasbound · Post by **ttf_vegasbound** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:51 am

Currently on ebay!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Wallace-Trombone-by-Earl-Williams-and-Spike-Wallace-Los-Angeles-California-/261175654037?pt=Brass_Instruments&hash=item3ccf483695

and no it's not mine!

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:10 am

Quote from: Bach42BOS on Feb 24, 2013, 11:21PMWow o wow

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=261175654037&index=8&nav=WATCHING&nid=33825944449

This is the first WW I've seen with bell tuning.I've seen a couple others; they were full custom horns, so Earl would build 'em the way people wanted 'em. Of course, since the trademark W-W design was TIS, that's what most people asked for.

Some obsvervations:
1) The one pic shows the seller measuring the bore - on the OD of the stocking. In reality, it's nowhere near .554". No telling how thick the wall is at the stocking, but I'd expect it to be no less than about .015". Figure the bore is no larger than about .525".
2) The company name was "Lyon and Healy"
3) The curved brace is marked "PAT. APLD. FOR"; the patent application was filed on January 4, 1928 and issued on November 25, 1930. Figure Earl might have had a few braces on hand that had already been stamped when the approval came through, so a manufacture date sometime in early 1931 wouldn't be out of the question.

Link to full eBay US listing:
www.ebay.com/itm/The-Wallace-Trombone-by-Earl-Williams-and-Spike-Wallace-Los-Angeles-California-/261175654037

Edit: I measured the stocking OD on my medium-bore TIS Williams (pre-9); it runs about .557".

Further edit: There's a little information about a "Lyons Band Instrument Company" of Chicago, Illinois over on horn-u-copia.net. The company was founded by Wm. H. Lyons, Howard R. Lyons, and Clarence L. McCreery; I suspect that Wm. H. Lyons is the man in the photograph - and that there is no connection between this horn and Lyon and Healy.

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:52 am

i was contacted some time ago abt this one -- it wasnt on the market at that time

Quote from: JohnL on Feb 25, 2013, 09:10AMI've seen a couple others; they were full custom horns, so Earl would build 'em the way people wanted 'em. Of course, since the trademark W-W design was TIS, that's what most people asked for.

Some obsvervations:
1) The one pic shows the seller measuring the bore - on the OD of the stocking. In reality, it's nowhere near .554". No telling how thick the wall is at the stocking, but I'd expect it to be no less than about .015". Figure the bore is no larger than about .525".
2) The company name was "Lyon and Healy"
3) The curved brace is marked "PAT. APLD. FOR"; the patent application was filed on January 4, 1928 and issued on November 25, 1930. Figure Earl might have had a few braces on hand that had already been stamped when the approval came through, so a manufacture date something in early 1931 wouldn't be out of the question.

Link to full eBay US listing:
www.ebay.com/itm/The-Wallace-Trombone-by-Earl-Williams-and-Spike-Wallace-Los-Angeles-California-/261175654037

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:49 am

Quote from: Bach42BOS on Feb 24, 2013, 11:21PMThis is the first WW I've seen with bell tuning.
I have a Williams & Wallace from around 1928-1930, and it has tuning in bell. Silver plated, Gold Wash Bell.

The other Williams & Wallace I have (Brass), is the sophisticated TIS w/ wheel design.

The other 2 Williams I have (both Brass)- are the simpler tuning in slide design.

T.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:12 pm

From 2009...
Quote from: bachbone on Jan 23, 2009, 06:50PMThis horn isn't leaving my grip. If anyone sees me selling it, tell me to stop! Knock some sense into me!
to 2013.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Burbank-Earl-Williams-Model-6-Jazz-Trombone-500-bore-AMAZING-SOUND-/251231388665?pt=Brass_Instruments&hash=item3a7e8ec3f9

ADHD?

T.

ttf_elmsandr · Post by **ttf_elmsandr** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:40 pm

Quote from: tsmart on Mar 06, 2013, 01:12PMFrom 2009...
to 2013.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Burbank-Earl-Williams-Model-6-Jazz-Trombone-500-bore-AMAZING-SOUND-/251231388665?pt=Brass_Instruments&hash=item3a7e8ec3f9

ADHD?

T.
I believe members on the forum did try to talk some sense into him. Methinks that is why he isn't here anymore.

Every time 'we' is used in those listings it makes me wonder how many voices are in that head...

Cheers,
Andy

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:16 pm

he has been on a mission
to elect mitt

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:34 pm

interview with JAY ARMSTRONG --on DAVID BRUBECK[BASS TROMBONEIST] website
details about the donalson era -bells etc --

ttf_octavposaune · Post by **ttf_octavposaune** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:03 pm

I haven't posted in this thread in a long while. Here are pictures of an Earl 9 that is a one owner horn. He knew the rest of the lacquer would fall off in a chem clean, which of course it did. Nice condition 1968 model 9. I think the lever is very interesting. More to follow as I post some pics

Benn

ttf_octavposaune · Post by **ttf_octavposaune** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:04 pm

One More pic,

Benn

ttf_octavposaune · Post by **ttf_octavposaune** » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:08 pm

And now for something different,

I spent three hours tonight polishing a waterspotted raw brass, Huntley engraved Duda 6 bell, it going out for silver plating and you can't leave the pits and water marks on the brass. You also can't machine buff intricate engraving, so hand rubbing the brass with a mild polish is what has to happen around all of the engraving. More pics of this horn tomorrow, before it takes a trip.

Benn

ttf_Bach42BOS · Post by **ttf_Bach42BOS** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:03 am

That 9 is a beauty! Thanks for sharing, Benn!

I remember the owner of that 6 posting earlier in this thread when he got it back from sherry. Engraving looks like a million bucks!

Ps- how big is the bell on that 9?

ttf_octavposaune · Post by **ttf_octavposaune** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:04 pm

Hi All,

The 9 has a 8 7/8ths in bell. The owner picked it up today. It plays big with the 1 1/2GB small shank he bought for it. It has a not so nice HI D on it, other than that it is a very fine horn.

sorry no pics of the 6 today, stayed tuned for tomorrow.

Benn

ttf_Slipmo · Post by **ttf_Slipmo** » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:45 pm

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:44 am

If that's a .491 horn, I have it's twin.
Same mpc too, except mine doen't have very much plating wear on the mpc.

Nice Noah!

T.

ttf_octavposaune · Post by **ttf_octavposaune** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:44 pm

Hi all,

Some pre red rouge pics. I have green rouged it to remove tinning from soldering etc... It is going to get a bath and chem cleaned before I red rough it dry it and ship it off for silver plating.
Benn

ttf_octavposaune · Post by **ttf_octavposaune** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:46 pm

A couple more before my break is over....

Benn

ttf_Bach42BOS · Post by **ttf_Bach42BOS** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:33 am

These horns are marvelous! I really need to get my Wallace-Williams into playing shape!

ttf_Bach42BOS · Post by **ttf_Bach42BOS** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:58 am

Tenessee 6 http://appleton.craigslist.org/msd/3709493370.html

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:48 pm

I'll be stopping by tomorrow morning to check it out.

Edit: The horn had a nice weight to it, but it just wasn't the horn for me. It looked like the previous owner didn't really take the best care of it either. Any note on the horn below Bb2 didn't center well, and anything above C5 didn't work to well for me either. Slide was about an 8.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:20 am

Well, my Williams project is complete. A Duda built Tulsa prototype P3 bell with a superbly executed hand slide built by Aaron Chandler. Shires lightweight nickel tube was used for the upper, and a Shires lightweight brass tube was used for the lower.

The horn is beautifully balanced and has that classic Williams sound. I prefer the sound/blow of this horn with the Chandler slide than I do with an original LA slide. That nickel upper has brought the sound and blow to a place that I really like. Plenty of Williams creaminess, but easier to get some slap and punch with the Chandler slide as compared to the LA.

I prefer the blow of this horn with a Kanstul W6 leadpipe over the H6 which I use in my Kanstul 1606. This was a very worth while project, and the horn is a definite keeper.

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:59 pm

i was there !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BACH LATER W REPORT !!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: The Sheriff on Apr 06, 2013, 08:20AMWell, my Williams project is complete. A Duda built Tulsa prototype P3 bell with a superbly executed hand slide built by Aaron Chandler. Shires lightweight nickel tube was used for the upper, and a Shires lightweight brass tube was used for the lower.

The horn is beautifully balanced and has that classic Williams sound. I prefer the sound/blow of this horn with the Chandler slide than I do with an original LA slide. That nickel upper has brought the sound and blow to a place that I really like. Plenty of Williams creaminess, but easier to get some slap and punch with the Chandler slide as compared to the LA.

I prefer the blow of this horn with a Kanstul W6 leadpipe over the H6 which I use in my Kanstul 1606. This was a very worth while project, and the horn is a definite keeper.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:38 pm

Quote from: dj kennedy on Apr 06, 2013, 01:59PMi was there !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BACH LATER W REPORT !!!!!!!!!!!

Yup, DJ was there. Had lunch with him and a friend of his at an Oyster Bar near Busch Stadium. Outstanding!! I dig St. Louis.

This horn keeps getting better and better. An amazing axe. Both DJ and Aaron have heard me on a lot of different horns, but this one takes the cake.

ttf_Bach42BOS · Post by **ttf_Bach42BOS** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:30 pm

Sounds like a beast of a horn! Congrats! Any pics?

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:17 pm

Quote from: Bach42BOS on Apr 06, 2013, 06:30PMSounds like a beast of a horn! Congrats! Any pics?

Sorry, I don't do pics.

ttf_chris.amemiya · Post by **ttf_chris.amemiya** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:18 am

Quote from: The Sheriff on Apr 06, 2013, 08:20AMWell, my Williams project is complete. A Duda built Tulsa prototype P3 bell with a superbly executed hand slide built by Aaron Chandler. Shires lightweight nickel tube was used for the upper, and a Shires lightweight brass tube was used for the lower.

The horn is beautifully balanced and has that classic Williams sound. I prefer the sound/blow of this horn with the Chandler slide than I do with an original LA slide. That nickel upper has brought the sound and blow to a place that I really like. Plenty of Williams creaminess, but easier to get some slap and punch with the Chandler slide as compared to the LA.

I prefer the blow of this horn with a Kanstul W6 leadpipe over the H6 which I use in my Kanstul 1606. This was a very worth while project, and the horn is a definite keeper.

Scott, this sounds like a really cool horn. I have a Duda 6 (the 6th one made from your prototype) and love the horn. The thin bell really gets to vibrating and I think that contributes to the ability to play pianissimo. Duda built me two slides for this bell - straight .500 and dual bore .500-.522, both lightweight brass. I use both, depending on the playing situation. I am wondering how the Shires upper has worked out for you. You mentioned in a previous post that you installed it to get a cleaner/quicker articulation. And? I love the sound and feel of this horn but occasionally it can be on the sluggish side. By putting on the nickel upper did you encounter a noticeable change in the timbre and core?

Best,
Chris Amemiya

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:48 pm

Quote from: chris.amemiya on Apr 14, 2013, 02:18AMScott, this sounds like a really cool horn. I have a Duda 6 (the 6th one made from your prototype) and love the horn. The thin bell really gets to vibrating and I think that contributes to the ability to play pianissimo. Duda built me two slides for this bell - straight .500 and dual bore .500-.522, both lightweight brass. I use both, depending on the playing situation. I am wondering how the Shires upper has worked out for you. You mentioned in a previous post that you installed it to get a cleaner/quicker articulation. And? I love the sound and feel of this horn but occasionally it can be on the sluggish side. By putting on the nickel upper did you encounter a noticeable change in the timbre and core?

Best,
Chris Amemiya

Hi Chris. Yes, the nickel upper has done precisely what I wanted it to do. Compared to DJ's LA or Burbank brass slides there is definitely more "ping" and a very clear articulation with my Chandler built slide. Not that the LA or Burbank brass slides are sluggish in the sound department, but they are more veiled.

I wouldn't call my prototype bell light. It's .025" which is fairly hefty. But being one piece it thins out in the flare. This horn has a lot of core to the sound. Big, fat, and creamy when I want it to be, and I can really get it to bark too. It's a big time winner of an axe and I can see playing it as my main horn for years to come.

It was a very worth while project.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:37 am

Sheriff's new horn is possibly the finest horn I've played. WHAT A SOUND!!!

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:57 pm

Quote from: AcmeTrombones on Apr 22, 2013, 07:37AMSheriff's new horn is possibly the finest horn I've played. WHAT A SOUND!!!

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:58 pm

CLARK GAYTON----LATEST MEMBER OF THE WILLIAMS CLUB --CHRIS AMEMYIA ---LA 6 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EXPRESS TO NYC !!!!!!!!

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:09 pm

Quote from: AcmeTrombones on Apr 22, 2013, 07:37AMSheriff's new horn is possibly the finest horn I've played. WHAT A SOUND!!!

Geez, Aaron. I know you like the horn, but I didn't know you liked it THAT much. I agree. I'm currently playing "Anything Goes" and I'm having a ball with this horn. Thanks for a job well done, my friend.

ttf_Thomas Matta · Post by **ttf_Thomas Matta** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:26 pm

The Sheriff's horn is a beauty.

Folks, Scott sounds great on every horn he plays.

This horn makes him happy. That's a big deal!

Heck, it sounds so good it even made a few of us laugh tonite!

ttf_octavposaune · Post by **ttf_octavposaune** » Sat May 04, 2013 9:58 pm

Duda 6 in triple silver plate,

just came back from Anderson. Here are the reasons you want a tech to deal with your instrument. Plating can lock up threads on the slide receiver nut and you can get flash plating inside the slide tubes etc... The job overall looks great! The engraving is sharp and clean.

Prep work is what makes plating look good.

Benn

ttf_octavposaune · Post by **ttf_octavposaune** » Sat May 04, 2013 10:00 pm

More pics,

Benn

ttf_octavposaune · Post by **ttf_octavposaune** » Sat May 04, 2013 10:03 pm

And the final set of pics

ttf_Bach42BOS · Post by **ttf_Bach42BOS** » Sat May 04, 2013 10:05 pm

Dang, that horn looks sweet!

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Sat May 04, 2013 11:01 pm

Thank you so much, Benn! It looks wonderful. (Now I'll have to conquer my fear of damaging it on a gig.)

Someone in another thread was asking about sending direct to Anderson. IMO, having Benn in the loop (who knows what he's doing) was invaluable in getting a great result.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Sun May 05, 2013 8:38 am

Quote from: octavposaune on May 04, 2013, 09:58PMPrep work is what makes plating look good.Good plating over bad prep not only doesn't look good - it's doesn't stick well, either.

ttf_Dukesboneman · Post by **ttf_Dukesboneman** » Sun May 12, 2013 11:04 am

Why Triple Silver plated?

ttf_john sandhagen · Post by **ttf_john sandhagen** » Sun May 12, 2013 11:23 am

Why a 10mm over a 9mm? Why a stout over a budweiser? Of course when you compare Daisy Dukes to ball gowns the comparison pales...

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon May 13, 2013 8:17 am

Quote from: Bellend on Jan 28, 2009, 01:44PMtbahr, I can't comment on pre WW2 brass because I didn't have any to get looked at so you may well be right.

I will make some inquiries to try and get a definitive answer to this question.

I certainly agree with you that pre WW2 Conns have a tangable difference to post WW2 ones and I have seen the difference in colour between bell and tubing. The pre WW2 bells seems also to be harder than the later ones although this could down to something as simple as some of the workforce retiring and or a change in the manufacturing process. This might also account for the fact that to me the pre WW2 red brass bells seem different to the later ones.

To came back to the thread, we had a customer come in to the shop years ago who had two Williams trombones. The first he bought from the man himself way back when, and the second was I think Caliccihio and he far preferred the newer one, so go figure.

BellEnd
I am of the belief that the surface hardness of an alloy can have an effect on tone production as far as what the audience hears. The player is effected differently as much of what the player hears is transmitted back through the jaw bone. But all in all it matters little as far as sound production what alloy is used. I do notice that some instruments built with thicker metal tend to play softly and are hard to push to a solid forte.

ttf_Bach42BOS · Post by **ttf_Bach42BOS** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:53 pm

ttf_Exzaclee · Post by **ttf_Exzaclee** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:56 am

You don't still have one of those available do you?

ttf_Bach42BOS · Post by **ttf_Bach42BOS** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:48 pm

Quote from: Exzaclee on Jun 30, 2013, 11:56AMYou don't still have one of those available do you?
hi zac, unfortunately, no, I don't have one available anymore. The pic I posted above was from a foreign eBay auction. http://item.mobileweb.ebay.de/viewitem?itemId=321104426153

ttf_Exzaclee · Post by **ttf_Exzaclee** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:50 pm

Oh, that's a 9 - i thought it was a 7...

ttf_Bach42BOS · Post by **ttf_Bach42BOS** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:53 pm

Quote from: Exzaclee on Jun 30, 2013, 12:50PMOh, that's a 9 - i thought it was a 7...
it is indeed a 7. I emailed John Noxon a few days ago regarding this horn and he mentioned that it's a 7 and not a 9. What caught my eye was that brace on the hand slide.

ttf_Richard Tadaki · Post by **ttf_Richard Tadaki** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:37 pm

Hi all,

Is there a trombone out there that's readily available that blows somewhat like a Williams 6? How about a Bach 12 or King 2B?

Aloha,
Richard

ttf_Exzaclee · Post by **ttf_Exzaclee** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:27 am

Shires is the way to go. Bach 12s don't blow like a williams - at least none i've tried. King 2Bs don't blow a like a Williams. I've heard some guys who like Williams 6s also dig the 2B+, but they don't blow the same for me. Of course I've only played on a small number of 6s - and I reckon they're all different snowflakes and all that.

A nice open 3B maybe?

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:40 am

Quote from: Richard Tadaki on Jul 02, 2013, 11:37PMIs there a trombone out there that's readily available that blows somewhat like a Williams 6?Have you tried a Kanstul 1606?