Sustained ff in trigger range

[tailgate]

Bass Bone. Need some assistance with removing the growl when playing at volume. If I get the right horn angle and air stream direction the sound is ok, but the issue is consistency.
Only 7 weeks of practice time before a contest.
I am working on breathing and embouchure strengthening (corners). Any other advice not including equipment change would be appreciated.
Thanks

[harrisonreed]

If it didn't sound like you had fundamental embouchure and air issues, I'd tell you to wrap the bell throat or the start of the bell flare with duct tape or leather.

But you need a teacher and good practice.

[shider]

I would give loud long tones a try. If your problem is consistency i would believe the consistency-champion "long tones" would iron that out the best.

[Kbiggs]

Why is a fortissimo “growl” in the lower register of the bass trombone unacceptable? It’s a characteristic of the bass trombone.

There was a thread many years ago on TTF about this. Doug Yeo responded to a comment about his playing in the Boston Pop’s (Boston Symphony’s?) recording of Summon the Heroes. I’ll try to find it and post a link. The gist, as I remember, was the music was written ff or fff; it was in the lower register of the instrument; the bass trombone is going to “growl” or have some edge to it in that register and at that volume, due to physics and acoustics; and the composer wanted that sound from that instrument in that place in the music. So, don’t be afraid to growl in the lower register at ff.

Of course, no one wants to hear a bass trombonist playing with a lot of edge in their sound whenever they are in the lower register above a mf. Contrariwise, no one wants to hear a wide but unfocused “woofy” sound in the lower register that has no core to it. Chris Stearn said in another thread just a few days ago:

It is not acceptable to sound like a constipated owl in the upper register on the bass trombone.

Having said all that, if indeed it’s an issue of embouchure strength, horn angle, and consistency, by all means see a teacher. Just don’t shy away from the nature of the instrument.

[paulyg]

Having the ability to play smoothly below the staff on bass trombone is important. Try descending scales, focusing on on maintaining your tone one note to the next, ending below the staff. Listen to great jazz and commercial players (Tommy Pederson, Bill Reichenbach, and of course Mr. Bass Trombone) to get an idea of how they manage to make their tone down there sound sweet.

But, as others have pointed out, the instrument is going to do what it is going to do. Bass trombones are not designed to be subtle at forte below the staff. That is the job of the string bass and tuba. contrabassoon, bass clarinet, and bass trombone are instruments that have evolved to expand the timbre of an orchestra, so it isn't the sonic equivalent of an amorphous blob.

We have a name for people who think that bass trombones should be seen and not heard- we call them viola players, because calling them failed violinists would cause professional friction.

[Burgerbob]

I think we should clarify...

It's pretty easy to play low on bass with no core and lots of "growl." Basically this ends up sounding like white noise. The goal is to have lots of middle to the note with the color on the outside, which is what our OP is looking for, I think.

[tailgate]

By growl I mean a loud double buzz. Raspy. An uncontrolled lip buzz with sound breaking up. The core of the sound is missing.
I am aiming for a phat edgy sound or the true bass bone sound.

[Kbiggs]

Ah, very different. You might want to get a lesson with Doug Elliott.

[Doug Elliott]

I can probably help you with a Skype lesson. I'd have to see what you're doing.

[Basbasun]

I know what you are talking about. A very common fault among new bassplayers is to open the lips as it seem to help at first, and letting the face muscles collaps to make the lips vibrate, and blow to hard.
Actually the embouchure should be controlled, the lips are blown open in the low range, but the face muscles are not open the lips, the wind is, the low range takes lots of air but not pushed. Try a lesson with Doug and see if that help. Check youtube there are some good bass players demonstrate what they are doing.

[tailgate]

It appears the problem was mouthpiece placement being too high. Too much top lip vibrating uncontrollably.
I was inadvertently moving the mouthpiece upwards on my face to create volume.
I usually play at the half way mark(horizontally) of the mouthpiece. When I checked in a mirror I noted that I was moving towards 1/3 below and 2/3 above.

[timothy42b]

Now I really think you do need a lesson with Doug. 2/3 above is not necessarily wrong but it may or may not be right for you. He's pretty expert at determining that. But 50/50 rarely works. It might even end up being 2/3 below.

[MahlerMusic]

There was a thread many years ago on TTF about this. Doug Yeo responded to a comment about his playing in the Boston Pop’s (Boston Symphony’s?) recording of Summon the Heroes. I’ll try to find it and post a link. The gist, as I remember, was the music was written ff or fff; it was in the lower register of the instrument; the bass trombone is going to “growl” or have some edge to it in that register and at that volume, due to physics and acoustics; and the composer wanted that sound from that instrument in that place in the music. So, don’t be afraid to growl in the lower register at ff.

Late but here you go