Earl Williams Trombone

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Thu May 21, 2015 6:44 pm

Nothing wrong with a Bob. I like my Bob 6 slightly more than my Earl 6.

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:35 am

a ''BOB'' IS IN THE HOUSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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also on radar a burbank w some usage and a tennesse early one
[

quote author=DaveAshley link=topic=43965.msg1078397#msg1078397 date=1432227304]
Earl had already died by the time that horn was built. Thats what I call a "Bob Williams" - The clearest signs of this are the 3000's serial number, the rounded slide crook and the stamp on the handgrip.
[/quote]

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:03 pm

Quote from: dj kennedy on Jun 14, 2015, 11:35AMa ''BOB'' IS IN THE HOUSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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also on radar a burbank w some usage and a tennesse early one
[

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I played the "BOB" the other day and it is a superb example of a model 6. It is even from top to bottom, centered, and has a solid core. No funny notes. If any of you guys are looking for a 6, I'd jump on this one.

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ttf_itisunknown · Post by **ttf_itisunknown** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:12 am

Williams 6 and Williams-Wallace model 1 listed in classified section. PM if interested for pics and full discussion. Thanks.

ttf_vegasbound · Post by **ttf_vegasbound** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:24 am

Quote from: itisunknown on Jul 04, 2015, 02:12AMWilliams 6 and Williams-Wallace model 1 listed in classified section. PM if interested for pics and full discussion. Thanks.

Would love to but your ad says local or US !!

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:01 am

Quote from: itisunknown on Jul 04, 2015, 02:12AMWilliams 6 and Williams-Wallace model 1 listed in classified section. PM if interested for pics and full discussion. Thanks.

Why not post photos here just for our enjoyment? They sound like drool-worthy horns.

ttf_itisunknown · Post by **ttf_itisunknown** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:20 pm

Updated classified section posting will show that the Williams 6 has been sold,
and the Williams-Wallace model 1 is still available.

ttf_itisunknown · Post by **ttf_itisunknown** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:29 pm

Sorry for the extra post, but have just confirmed that the Williams-Wallace model one is gold plated, if that matters to anyone. I have nice pics to send to anyone interested.

ttf_itisunknown · Post by **ttf_itisunknown** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:42 pm

OK...I think I've figured out how to add the pics. (Thanks Bruce!)

Here are 4 pics of the Williams-Wallace model 1 for sale in the classified section. I'll answer any/all questions if you PM me or email me at the address in my profile. This horn is a true beauty. Friction fit, tuning in slide (TIS), and gold plated. All original except inner slide tubes just replaced by Robb Stewart...plays pretty now.

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:37 am

ttf_itisunknown · Post by **ttf_itisunknown** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:29 pm

Yes. Whenever I open the case, it reminds me of the glowing briefcase in Pulp Fiction...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV-QtaYVo2w

ttf_itisunknown · Post by **ttf_itisunknown** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:57 am

The pending sale didn't happen...listed again in classified section.

ttf_svenlarsson · Post by **ttf_svenlarsson** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:12 am

Quote from: itisunknown on Jul 07, 2015, 03:42PMOK...I think I've figured out how to add the pics. (Thanks Bruce!)

Here are 4 pics of the Williams-Wallace model 1 for sale in the classified section. I'll answer any/all questions if you PM me or email me at the address in my profile. This horn is a true beauty. Friction fit, tuning in slide (TIS), and gold plated. All original except inner slide tubes just replaced by Robb Stewart...plays pretty now.

Talk about porn. If I was younger I sell the house for that horn...so beautiful!

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:01 am

there are 2 model 6 available
one from peter anderson in seattle --re tubes earl burbank
and a bob from me
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i advised pete to keep asking price at 35 but he is so incredibly wealthy he will let it go for 2450
he has relisted it so many times on ebay people think there is something wrong w it !!!!!! not
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ttf_Whitbey · Post by **ttf_Whitbey** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:01 am

Quote from: dj kennedy on Aug 15, 2015, 05:01AMthere are 2 model 6 available
one from peter anderson in seattle --re tubes earl burbank
and a bob from me
------------------------------------
i advised pete to keep asking price at 35 but he is so incredibly wealthy he will let it go for 2450
he has relisted it so many times on ebay people think there is something wrong w it !!!!!! not
--------------------------------------

Thanks for the numbers. Not knowing was a distraction.

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:08 pm

TENNESSEE 6 IN THE HOUSE --FRIDGE DELIVERS FROM MEMPHIS
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familiar very slim geneic case --i still have sams beat to h///// case from his earl 6 !!! that went to england
//details will follow /// and posting pics on FB
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the most interesting part is that there are numerous letters forming a very important part of the provenance
and history channel of williams trombones
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condition -best i have ever seen in an un- restored williams

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:03 am

rumors of a 4
interest in a bob and tennesse 6
chinese buyer interested
and a leaky retube in chicago
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panders ragged 6 last listed at 1999 on bay

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:36 am

sale of a burbank 6 stalled by frustrated owner /buyer complications
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model 8 -floating on bay
new tennessee 6 with much documentation -proveeeeenance --here
prewar 522 --still being modified
crazy price on 9 bell

ttf_itisunknown · Post by **ttf_itisunknown** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:46 pm

I have my Williams & Wallace model 1 up on ebay.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:06 am

Earl Williams 6 for sale in Belgium.

http://www.2dehands.be/muziek/muziekinstrumenten/trombones/earl-williams-6-tenor-trombone-262436036.html

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:17 am

Quote from: ConnBone18 on Nov 06, 2015, 10:06AMEarl Williams 6 for sale in Belgium.

http://www.2dehands.be/muziek/muziekinstrumenten/trombones/earl-williams-6-tenor-trombone-262436036.html

Burbank Bob. Amazing how horns from a tiny shop in SoCal made it all over the world.

ttf_svenlarsson · Post by **ttf_svenlarsson** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:49 am

I sometimes sub in a bigband in Sweden where my old Earl William 10 is played. I sold it many years ago, it simply was not my horn.
But the sound I hear from the guy playing it now is simply fantastic! Somtime in the future I may post a clip. I is certainly
the right horn for this guy!

ttf_itisunknown · Post by **ttf_itisunknown** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:02 pm

fyi... My Williams & Wallace gold plated model 1 has a bidder for the eBay auction ending tonight. If you had any interest in this one, now would be the time for a last consideration.

ttf_SKAzz · Post by **ttf_SKAzz** » Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:16 pm

I would like to get a Kanstul into the hands of Dave Ashley and have him give us a side by side comparison of those.

Hope you're enjoying the boat Dave. Go Cats.

ttf_watermailonman · Post by **ttf_watermailonman** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:17 am

[url=mailto:][/url]I was offered to buy this Williams model 9 a week ago so I did. I think this is made by Bob because it has a 30xx serial number. I have read a lot of posts from John Noxon who make me believe this, but can not be sure.

The previous owner bought it used at "Brass specialisten" in Stockholm somewhere around 1990-1995 and at that time it was very well used, the lacquer was almost completely gone and the case was worn out. The lacquer is now removed and the case replaced.

I'm grateful to anyone who can help with information about this trombone. It would be fun if I could trace it back to it's first owner.

I know there were a couple of Williams trombones imported to Sweden by a legendary Swedish big band section in Stockholm in the mid 70's - I think they got them 1974. If this is one of them then it is probably made around that same year.

I also have a Wallace & Williams model 2 from about 1933 in my small collection so this will be my second Williams.

/Tom

ttf_jnoxon · Post by **ttf_jnoxon** » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:37 pm

3xxx would be a horn built by Bob after Earl passed on July 4 1971. There was also Johansson Music (sp) in Malmö that was a Williams dealer. They sold around 20 or so horns before Bob passed in1975. Bob also used round crooks. Usually nickel plated.

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:29 am

Quote from: SKAzz on Nov 20, 2015, 01:16PMI would like to get a Kanstul into the hands of Dave Ashley and have him give us a side by side comparison of those.

Hope you're enjoying the boat Dave. Go Cats.

I played Joe Jackson's 6 this past weekend, and I own a 4. I played another colleague's 1606 just yesterday.

I find the Kanstuls to be lighter in every way-- the slides are lighter, the bells are a LOT lighter. The grip assembly feels more substantial on the Kanstul, the barrels on both sides are bigger, the slide-bell tenon is bigger around. Joe's 6 has a squared-off tuning crook, my 4 has a completely round tuning crook. The Kanstul is somewhere in between the two. The Kanstul I tried had the W6 leadpipe in it. It blew more open than either Williams, but had fewer low/middle overtones in spite of the openness. My (Donnellson) 4 and Joe's (Burbank) 6 blow almost identically in feel and close in sound. Joe said his 6 sounded a little "broader" in the high range. That's it. The Kanstul didn't sound anything like the other 2, to me. More high overtones, a clearer, less complex sound overall. To me it sits half way between a Williams 6 and a King 3b.

I hope that helps.

I understand that Kanstul makes horns with different bell thicknesses. I don't know which one this was.

ttf_jnoxon · Post by **ttf_jnoxon** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:33 pm

I can shed a small amount of light on the Kanstul/Williams thing. I had a model 4 about 20 years ago that was sold to a friend in Orange County. It was a great horn but the lacquer was in very bad shape. So this friend, who shall remain nameless, took it to Kanstul to have it buffed and lacquered. During the time the horn was there it was copied. The result was the 1606 a great horn in its own right. But it is not a Williams by any means. That does not mean it is not a good horn so don't get me wrong. The alloy is not the same as what Earl used, the bend of the braces is different, the scale of the horn was changed, (the bell is not as close to your face) the slide tubes are shorter. So in the end it is a very good horn just not a Williams. To many changes were made in my opinion to even compare it to a Williams. Its kind of comparing apples to oranges. Compare a Williams 6 to a 3B of a Conn 6H they are just not the same!

But the Kanstul is an excellent horn. Scott Bental, and Les Benedict played them for a while. I know Scott still has his but Les moved on to Rath now. So understanding where the 1606 came from helps a bit with the comparison. In the end the 1606 and the Williams 6 are great horns but not close to the same.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:31 pm

Quote from: jnoxon on Dec 23, 2015, 02:33PMI can shed a small amount of light on the Kanstul/Williams thing. I had a model 4 about 20 years ago that was sold to a friend in Orange County. It was a great horn but the lacquer was in very bad shape. So this friend, who shall remain nameless, took it to Kanstul to have it buffed and lacquered. During the time the horn was there it was copied. The result was the 1606 a great horn in its own right. But it is not a Williams by any means. That does not mean it is not a good horn so don't get me wrong. The alloy is not the same as what Earl used, the bend of the braces is different, the scale of the horn was changed, (the bell is not as close to your face) the slide tubes are shorter. So in the end it is a very good horn just not a Williams. To many changes were made in my opinion to even compare it to a Williams. Its kind of comparing apples to oranges. Compare a Williams 6 to a 3B of a Conn 6H they are just not the same!

But the Kanstul is an excellent horn. Scott Bental, and Les Benedict played them for a while. I know Scott still has his but Les moved on to Rath now. So understanding where the 1606 came from helps a bit with the comparison. In the end the 1606 and the Williams 6 are great horns but not close to the same.

Right you are, John. I still play my Kanstul 1606 every day. It is a great horn, and yes, different from a Williams 6. I am anxiously awaiting my new Lawler.

ttf_Sliphorn · Post by **ttf_Sliphorn** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:48 pm

Quote from: jnoxon on Dec 23, 2015, 02:33PMI can shed a small amount of light on the Kanstul/Williams thing. I had a model 4 about 20 years ago that was sold to a friend in Orange County. It was a great horn but the lacquer was in very bad shape. So this friend, who shall remain nameless, took it to Kanstul to have it buffed and lacquered. During the time the horn was there it was copied. The result was the 1606 a great horn in its own right. But it is not a Williams by any means. That does not mean it is not a good horn so don't get me wrong. The alloy is not the same as what Earl used, the bend of the braces is different, the scale of the horn was changed, (the bell is not as close to your face) the slide tubes are shorter. So in the end it is a very good horn just not a Williams. To many changes were made in my opinion to even compare it to a Williams. Its kind of comparing apples to oranges. Compare a Williams 6 to a 3B of a Conn 6H they are just not the same!

But the Kanstul is an excellent horn. Scott Bental, and Les Benedict played them for a while. I know Scott still has his but Les moved on to Rath now. So understanding where the 1606 came from helps a bit with the comparison. In the end the 1606 and the Williams 6 are great horns but not close to the same.
It's sort of like a Schmelzer 1 isn't a Williams, even though outwardly they appear to be very, very similar. Very different horns, and I've had both.

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:30 am

It's interesting to hear mention of the close-in bell of the Williams. One of the things I like best about my Williams is how close the bell is to me. I wonder how much that geometry affects how the horn actually plays, and how much of it only affects how I hear the sound from behind the bell.

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:51 am

thanks everybody !!!!!!!!i got in a lawler herb bruce -twin bore in 525 gold plated
my buddy bruce tried it in comparison w a bob and tennessee [jay] he took the lawler home
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the tennessee has a stack of letters !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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some diagrams -story about a dishwasher
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from the 80s selling price at that time about 800
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there is an la 6 on the market asking for 36
the ceiling for la has been around 26
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rodney lancaster [a 3b guy] tried the tennessee and loves it
but since he used to play lt 16s
is stuffing his stocking w
a mount vernon 16 ---built with straight bore 509 and no sleeves outers with finger pad in brass
i would not hesitate to attribute this work to peppy
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happy solstice time !!!!!!!! to one and all
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i heard oliver might be selling his williams

==================
he might ask for more !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ttf_Euphanasia · Post by **ttf_Euphanasia** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:01 am

So what happened with this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILLIAMS-WALLACE-TROMBONE-/131679200886

Los Angeles Williams and Wallace, first listed at $1200 with no bidders, then at $1000 and it sold for the opening bid. That's the least expensive Williams I've seen in many years.

The listing has bad pictures, but aside from that, it looks like an OK horn. Why so cheap?

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:05 am

Quote from: Euphanasia on Dec 24, 2015, 07:01AMSo what happened with this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILLIAMS-WALLACE-TROMBONE-/131679200886

Los Angeles Williams and Wallace, first listed at $1200 with no bidders, then at $1000 and it sold for the opening bid. That's the least expensive Williams I've seen in many years.

The listing has bad pictures, but aside from that, it looks like an OK horn. Why so cheap?
Wallace-Williams horns just don't command the same kind of prices than the ones with only Earl's name on them. I think the perception is that their design isn't as "modern".

ttf_SKAzz · Post by **ttf_SKAzz** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:36 am

Thanks for the info gents. I've played a williams once. but never a Kanstul "williams". id still like to try it, but have a better set of expectations now. happy holidays all.

ttf_greenbean · Post by **ttf_greenbean** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:57 am

FYI...

There is a Williams 6 at A&G Music in Oakland. On consignment. They are asking for $2800.

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:23 am

L A ????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Quote from: greenbean on Jan 15, 2016, 05:57AMFYI...

There is a Williams 6 at A&G Music in Oakland. On consignment. They are asking for $2800.

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:32 pm

Here's a strange one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EARL-WILLIAMS-CUSTOM-MADE-DOUBLE-TRIGGER-F-E-BASS-TROMBONE-EXTREMELY-RARE-/172103333945?hash=item2812287839:g:uBAAAOSwWTRWwmCV

I have never heard of a double trigger Williams and the wrap doesn't look very Williams-like (reminds me of a Reynolds Contempora), so I'm guessing this was a conversion from a single valve.

The photo of the bell is such that I can clearly read "Williams," but I can't see if it's Burbank or Donelson. Anybody with better eyes?

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:36 pm

Quote from: SilverBone on Feb 15, 2016, 06:32PMHere's a strange one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EARL-WILLIAMS-CUSTOM-MADE-DOUBLE-TRIGGER-F-E-BASS-TROMBONE-EXTREMELY-RARE-/172103333945?hash=item2812287839:g:uBAAAOSwWTRWwmCV

I have never heard of a double trigger Williams and the wrap doesn't look very Williams-like (reminds me of a Reynolds Contemporara), so I'm guessing this was a conversion from a single valve.

The photo of the bell is such that I can clearly read "Williams," but I can't see if it's Burbank or Donelson. Anybody with better eyes?
I can make out "LIF", so Burbank.

The one slide looks like Williams. The valves and attachment wraps look like Reynolds, but the rest of the bell section looks more like Williams. My guess is that it started life as a Williams 10 and had some work done.

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:24 pm

I wrote to the seller and heard back. It is a Burbank (good eye, John), and the seller confirmed the valveset was from a Reynolds.

ttf_BassCase · Post by **ttf_BassCase** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:14 am

Just saw an Earl Williams bass bone on ebay. I've done business with the seller, Kaptdean. He's a stand-up guy. Bidding starts at 3500. Best of luck!

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:49 am

Quote from: BassCase on Feb 16, 2016, 01:14AMJust saw an Earl Williams bass bone on ebay. I've done business with the seller, Kaptdean. He's a stand-up guy. Bidding starts at 3500. Best of luck!

It doesn't look like it has a tuning mechanism? (Other than the hand slide) Are my eyes deceiving me?

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:55 am

Quote from: Matt K on Feb 16, 2016, 09:49AMIt doesn't look like it has a tuning mechanism? (Other than the hand slide) Are my eyes deceiving me?
Slide looks correct - bell looks correct...
Double valve? I thought the model 10 was a single valve?
And I thought the model 10 had the pigtail same iconic pigtail wrap?

I'm not certain, but looks like some mods (looks like a nice job).
Wonder if Larry worked on it?

VERY cool horn
Maybe John Noxon will chime in....

T.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:03 am

Ah I see it now. It goes all the way down to the rotor it looks like. I was looking for it to be somewhere around the same length of both legs.

ttf_BassCase · Post by **ttf_BassCase** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:10 am

It's both beautiful and ugly.

ttf_Slipmo · Post by **ttf_Slipmo** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:35 am

Reynolds valve section

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:08 am

Quote from: Matt K on Feb 16, 2016, 10:03AMAh I see it now. It goes all the way down to the rotor it looks like. I was looking for it to be somewhere around the same length of both legs. I seem other Williams f-attachment horns like that.

Always wanted a Williams 10 with a modern valve section, but didn't want to deal with the flak/guilt of modding one the dozen or so in existence? Here's your chance! Someone's already done the dirty work for you. You could probably drop a set of dependent Shires Tru-bores, Kanstul CR's, or even Hagmanns without having to mod the Williams part of horn at all. Probably not enough room for a Thayer in there, though.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:53 pm

Quote from: JohnL on Feb 16, 2016, 11:08AMI seem other Williams f-attachment horns like that.

Always wanted a Williams 10 with a modern valve section, but didn't want to deal with the flak/guilt of modding one the dozen or so in existence? Here's your chance! Someone's already done the dirty work for you. You could probably drop a set of dependent Shires Tru-bores, Kanstul CR's, or even Hagmanns without having to mod the Williams part of horn at all. Probably not enough room for a Thayer in there, though.

There would be if it was dependent!

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:28 pm

Cannot find it.... has it gone ???

Chris Stearn

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:38 pm

Quote from: blast on Feb 17, 2016, 03:28PMCannot find it.... has it gone ???http://www.ebay.com/itm/172103333945