Lube and an oil change

[Bach5G]

I mistakenly used rotor spindle oil instead of rotor oil on my bass trombone (and what seem to be ridiculously close tolerances). Result: slow, sluggish valve action.

This seemed to work on my Shires .525 yesterday:

1 immerse and soak bell section in warm soapy water

2 drain and rinse with warm, clear water

3. Remove tuning slides and swab out the tubes

4 Add oil

5. Replace tuning slides

6 work oil into the valves

5 lube other components (spindle, levers) usuing proper oil

Comments?

[Bonearzt]

All sounds OK to me, but careful with the warm water.
I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE ELSE THINKS REGARDING WARM WATER!!!!

The use of soap may or may not have been totally necessary, but won't hurt if rinsed well.

Biggest concern for me is to oil regularly!!


Eric

[Burgerbob]

I just wipe the horn down when changing oils. No need for soap or water.

[Bach5G]

Warm, soapy water to get rid of the old oil, I think.

[BGuttman]

Many spindle oils will dissolve in a lighter oil (provided they are all hydrocarbon or all silicone). Just applying a light valve oil on the rotor spindles should free them up quite a bit. Two or three applications should get rid of the gunk.

[Bach5G]

I don’t know why this horn (Yamaha 620G) needed 5 tuning slides.

[BGuttman]

I don’t know why this horn (Yamaha 620G) needed 5 tuning slides.

Five? I would only have expected 3. And one is actally for draining moisture from the F-attachment. Same as my 682.

[Bach5G]

5 including the drain pipe and an Eb/D combo.

I’m not sure how much oil gets down into the 2nd valve (dependent/stacked) but so far, so good.

[BGuttman]

Aha! You have the BASS trombone. I thought you had the TENOR trombone. Yeah, five if you have two slides for the 2nd valve.

[PaulT]

What is rotor spindle oil?

My Yamaha 620 came with a bottle of Yamaha synthetic rotor oil with accompanying application instructions, which included the application of a drop or two to the spindle shaft (located under the round removable spindle cover). (the bottle is round with a long metal needle applicator).

Is rotor spindle oil a different product than rotor oil? (thinner/lower viscosity?) And is either different than any light bearing oil such as you might use on a sewing machine?

Should I get a bottle of Yamaha synthetic rotor spindle oil as well as the synthetic Yamaha rotor oil (and use the former on the spindle and use the other for coating the rotor itself)?

Is my use of regular rotor oil on the spindle rather than dedicated spindle oil the reason I have trouble hitting Bb with a usable consistency?

[Bach5G]

I am so very grateful that the Yamaha brass rep back in Toronto still responds to my emails. Here is his most recent:

To properly oil a rotor, Yamaha recommends 3 different weights of oil.

#1 (and the most important) is Rotor Oil for on the surface of the rotor. This needs to be dripped down the gooseneck pipe (bell/Slide connection) to get the F rotor and then dripped down the D (or Eb) tuning slide to get to the D (Eb) rotor. After Dripping, air needs to be blown through the horn while actuating the rotors. Yamaha Synthetic Rotor oil is a good option for this lubricant.. Hetman 11.5 (Medium Rotor Oil) is also a good option. The Rotor oil is the LIGHTEST weight oil needed. This oil will need to be applied the most frequently.

#2 is Rotor Spindle Oil (also called bearing oil). This is for lubricating the 2 bearings on which the rotors spin. (there are 2 bearings / rotor – the YBL620 will have 4 points where this oil is needed). This is applied under the rotor cap and under the stop arm (opposite side). This oil is heavier than Rotor oil – it should not be applied to the rotor surface itself (it is too heavy). Yamaha Synthetic Rotor Spindle Oil is a good option for this lubricant. Hetman 13.5 Medium Bearing and Linkage Oil is also a good option.

#3 is Lever Oil (also called linkage oil). This is for lubricating mechanical linkages that need to move freely (basically all metal-on-metal points that move in the mechanism. It is the heaviest of the 3 oils and should not be used on the rotor itself or on the rotor bearings (too heavy). Yamaha Synthetic Lever Oil is a good option for this lubricant. Hetman 14 Bearing and Linkage oil or 14 Ball Joint Oil will also work.

[Posaunus]

I am so very grateful that the Yamaha brass rep back in Toronto still responds to my emails. Here is his most recent:

To properly oil a rotor, Yamaha recommends 3 different weights of oil.

Thanks for the very clear explanation - and for the Hetman equivalents (since I use that brand)!

[PaulT]

And again, thanks for the clear explanation. I ordered the two heavier grades of oil for the spindle and levers. $20. Can't hurt.

Part of my brain is still telling me to also continue to use the light rotor oil on the spindle as the bearing tolerances are so tight my instinct is telling me the lighter oil has a better chance of seeping into the areas it needs to get to. But, as I will soon have the heavier viscosity spindle oil on hand, I can use both and see if there is any difference in penetration (does it seep into where it needs to go or does it sit on top and then run off to the side).