Where is the trombone today!

[Savio]

Wonder what place it will have in the future? Beethoven introduced the trombone as standard in the symphony orchestra with his fifth symphony. Even though it has been used in almost all settings since about 1600. Late 1800 music started to change into different genres and early jazz begin to see its life. From dance music, folk music, and influence from other continents. Later into our days the music develop into so many different roads. Jazz have developed in to so many different style arts, so have classic music. In fact all music is now divided into so many genres that nobody can even count it. Before we had something called "pop and rock" music. Today in example "rap" music there is endless genres. In google search the most funny name in that genre must be "boom bap" I dont know how to even count the endless list of jazz genres. Or classic genres.

There is also so many attempts to join music genres together. Beatles did it because they could afford to pay an orchestra. Elvis did the same. (listen that bass trombone in one of his last concerts,) Its endless how even composers join styles together. The most successful is many of the film and movie composers, they had the opportunity to use the hole specter of musicians together. And I have to say I enjoy and admire many of the movie composers! Some of them are todays real answer to Bach and Mozart!

Where is the trombone in the future? We have to show people we can play beautiful and get in to peoples heart. And stop playing some of that modern "rubbish" music that pleases only our self. Remember the joy, the melodies, and the fun we all had when we started to play the trombone. Forget the high demands, use our heart.

Leif

[paulyg]

I think that the place of the trombone in our society is where it has always been. Leif, you put a good point on this when you said that trombone should get into people's hearts.

Lots of us are probably disillusioned after being the playthings of third-rate composers and composition students, or after being subject to the tempestuous tastes of academic ensemble directors. The "music" that's put in front of us is often hard to play and hard to listen to.

For such a broad topic, the idea of genre should probably not be relevant (incidentally, I consider rap more poetry than music- worthy of being called art, but a different class of art). A simple "good" vs. "bad" should be enough to determine if something is still relevant. Like you said yourself, at its best, the trombone drives straight to the heart. Since even before Beethoven, the trombone has been a reliable tool of composers and musicians when creating real music. Things will continue in this fashion. The trombone is still "good." If anyone should need reminding of this, just pick up the horn and play!

[norbie2018]

In the US, as long as middle-high schools have band programs the trombone has the opportunity to find a place in the musical world of tomorrow. In certain genres it is thriving, but I cannot imagine this continuing unless we have quality band programs in our schools. I suppose some individuals are self-taught, but I'll hazard a guess that most US born trombonists making a living at least partially from playing had their start in school bands.

[Basbasun]

Well, since the trombone arived to the music world at about 1450 its roll have been constantly changed, not very fast but still. In Scandinavia we see it happening faster. I see lots of bands and orchestras disappear in Europe.
The music that is played is often different from the golden years of Sinatra. There are some bands that still play that music even though they are not payed. The music scen has throuth the history allways changed, well there is still school bands, struggling to get trombones to the band (in Sweden). not many yong people heard of Tommy Dorsey or GR even though they could listen to them on youtube. Still we love to play don´t we? The trombone is not where it was in the 60 70 80th. Ewerything does change, we to. And the music. There are still many good bands around, still lots of good music being played, many good young players. Not so many trombonists today though.

[CharlieB]

Sadly, I think that we're witnessing a global decrease in the demand for the music of manual musical instruments of all kinds, including the trombone. Since the introduction of the Moog synthesizer in the 1960's, the technology of creating high quality digital music has advanced at an astounding pace. That technology hasn't yet reached the point where it can create the same sound nuances as a live musician playing an instrument, but that day is coming. Electronics will duplicate the sound of every orchestral instrument, plus some new pleasing musical sounds never possible with conventional instruments. We are already seeing the effects of a new generation of music listeners who favor digital music over listening to live musicians. RIP many orchestras, school music programs, and dance bands. Technology will soon make my trombone obsolete. Beam me up, Scotty.

[Mikebmiller]

Mine is on my stand in my practice room.

[ExZacLee]

And again the bells are tolling for the death of the trombone...

Not in the orchestras where they give weight and gravitas to what would otherwise be some boring Wagner.

Not in the big bands where they are the signature of the arranger and composer (yes, these things still exist.)

Not in the studio orchestras where they herald coming of Vader...

Not in the small groups in NYC where they act as a melodic foil to their fiddlier friends on saxomaphone and that lesser, smaller trombone with the valves that people have taken to calling a trampet...

Not in the ska bands making their bones at festivals, jam band tours and frat houses...

Not in the universities where one can get their school paid for - 20-40K worth of scholarship for an initial $2000 investment seems fair...

Not in the various hipster "trad" bands specializing in Americana of kinds, where the quirky plumbing can always find a home amongst the beards and arm garters and home made beer drinkers...

Not even on the tours of the Beyonces and Brunos, who's brass brings the house down, one fiery unison at a time...

No, those bells don't toll at the weddings and bars and corporate events where the cover band covers, well covers, where the new excerpts are from Chicago and K.C. of the Sunshine and Earth, Wind & Fire... and of course the aforementioned Beyonce and Bruno...

Those bells sure as hell ain't tolling way down yonder in New Orleans, where the trambone still reigns supreme and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone's slide...

And someone must've forgot to tell Cuba and PR and Venezuela and Columbia and Dominica and all of our neighbors to the south of Mexico where the trombone is the life and soul of the party.

That bell can toll all it wants. I don't hear it.

[mwpfoot]

[imsevimse]

Even though popularity for all wind instruments over here has decreased to a level that makes it hard to build orchestras in the public music scool there are still good trombonists at the royal academy of music. What will be their future? This is a something I often question myself.

Back in the 80ies you could still be a music teacher and be a freelance musician. This was a very common combination, today this is more rare. In the future this will be even harder.

What will happen with the trombone in music? I don't think there will be much change. There are still composers that study music at music college and there will still be institutions to preserve the tradition. Over here the good professional market for tromboneplayers died long time ago. I have met people who talk about good times when they had multiple recording sessions on the same days, TV shows and dance gigs almost every day. It will never be like that again, never as it once was.

There are but a few who can earn their living from the trombone alone. At the moment I don't know anyone who can do it as a freelancer. The tromboneplayers in Stockholm who are employed as tromboneplayers are the ones in the two symphony orchestras and the royal opera house and the ones in the two military wind orchestras, (one of them where trombone players play euphonium or baritone on horsebac), and there is also professional trombonists in one non military professional wind orchestra.

I guess the number of full time professional tromboneplayers is between 20 to 25 in Stockholm. There are also a small group of first call freelancers who get most of the jazz and club jobs. I don't know how much they work. Then there are a larger number of players who are second call who have other jobs. I guess I could name about 25. If you sum all you see there is no place for another tromboneplayer over here.

Will the small number of professional players affect the music written for trombone? I doubt that. I think composers will continue to write for the professional players and as long as those 25 have their job there will be strange parts and hard music written. If the politicians decide they want to send those players home and make them unemployed then it will effect music. No more classical orchestra work will be written for trombones in Stockholm. This would be a sad day for us all as we can not hear the great symphonies and operas live anymore. I don't think that will happen in 100 years. Tromboneplayers from all over the world want those jobs. Even though good Swedish trombonists may be rare to find there will still be good players from other parts of the world to fill those seats.

/Tom

[timothy42b]

I can see the trombone surviving much longer than the wind band where most of us started our learning.

Even military bands rarely play with the full band. The wind bands in my area are a place for people like me to indulge their hobby, not a business or organization that provides a service. And the membership is largely white male of middle to <ahem> mature age.

[Digidog]

I don't think the need of the instrument trombone will vanish; it may raise or decline over time, but not completely disappear.

What worries me is the regrowth of new, young trombonists capable of reading music and playing difficult parts. At least in Sweden that supply of young musicians is drying out to the extent that many bands and orchestras have troubles recruiting trombonists - even professional orchestras are seeing diminishing numbers of suitable applicants on their auditions.

Over all, I don't see enough young kids playing the trombone long enough to become sufficiently proficient, and though the need for the instrument trombone always will be there, I'm not sure there will be enough people to actually ful-play that need at a sufficient level.

[Gary]

There are some well thought and insightful comments above. The one thing that is unchanging and that is that everything changes. Some of the above really relates to larger changes in music, and not "the future of the trombone", itself.

Personally, I think there will be a place for traditional trombone use in the future but the opportunity to do it as reliable income may turn to playing those types of music for little or no pay. The use will be there, the money, maybe not.

A sign of the changing times, if I were starting out today, I would probably rely on popular-oriented music which uses a lot of electronic possibilities. I would also supplement this with synthesized composition.

[ExZacLee]

So... wait a minute... am I hearing this right?

There are gigs in Sweden because there aren't enough trombone players?

I'd move there in a heartbeat. Beautiful country, beautiful cities, it wouldn't have cost us so much to have our baby, great food, it gets a little cold but jackets are cheap...

Just throwing this out there, if anyone anywhere in Europe needs a trombone player, I'll sub out my work and head that way. For reals.

On another note, if there is music one wants to hear and it isn't being provided, create the opportunity. Oklahoma City hasn't historically been considered a haven for music but there is work here because people work hard to find their audience and create opportunities. There's always good musicians here, and fewer of them are leaving to make their money because of the number of people working to create opportunities. If the music isn't there and you want it, do what you can to create the opportunity - social media makes it easier than ever before to find like minded people who can help you in this regard. Every working musician I know has the attitude that if they aren't working, they are looking for opportunities to work. Don't pigeonhole yourself - music is music.

[imsevimse]

So... wait a minute... am I hearing this right?

There are gigs in Sweden because there aren't enough trombone players?

Well, my English may be bad, but I'm astonished you could draw that to conclusion.

There are more trombone players of high standard in Stockholm than can be fed by jobs. You should not go here if you are planning to get payed gigs. Was that clear enough?

Sorry if the post coming from Sweden made you think there was gold over here.

/Tom

[Basbasun]

odly enough I meet lots of young very good tromboneplayers in Stockholm. Most of them play for peanuts, or nothing. Manny very good musicians are taxi drivers or buss drivers. There are som very good bands and orchestras in europe, but not as many as it was years ago. Same as in USA?

[Gary]

I lived in a city in Germany that housed one of the radio-T.V orchestras, a very healthy symphony concert season including. i.e., Leningrad, BBC, Radio Bavaria and other outstanding orchestras, as well as a similarly distinguished chamber music series.

With the passage of time, the Radio orchestra was reduced and relocated, merging with another such orh. The symphony series went to just regional symphonies being featured and a season of four concerts a month to one a month.

While I played in concert ensembles, most of my money came from playing in jazz bib bands and pop combos. The number of jobs didn't decrease but in order to keep them up, required more frequent and more distant gigs, which cut into your profit margin.

I had two trombone playing friends. One was in the radio orchestra and his situation became precarious. The other, a Soviet-trained player and a very experienced player with a lot of chops, couldn't even find enough work that he basically lived off of his wife.

At least in that region, work continued but more of it became reduced and income was iffy. Still there was plenty of opportunity for trombonists but most of it is non-paying.

[Savio]

Big bands are still up and go in USA I think. Lot of youtube videos from there. Still some amateur bands here in Norway, but I think no professional in regular work. Still it is put together when needed. I think there is more in Sweden? I believe "basbasun" , worked in some famous bands both in USA and Germany? And I believe he made a living out of it?

I think its important to have the music education with instruments, school bands integrated in school from the first years. Norway doesn't have it, I believe England, USA and most east European countries have it?

I think the future of trombone need some fantasy and creativity to make new areas. And I see there is some of the young trombonists who do it. I believe most trombone players to day have to supply with teaching? Except the symphony players that can make the outcome just by playing. Still most of them do teach because they are wanted to do teaching.

Leif