Smashed 88h Bell...
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Smashed 88h Bell...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/qdxHoG8GqwxL7jAh8
I’m getting this 88h for free but I will need to help the bell out...
What would you have done and how much do you project your repair idea to cost?
Thanks.
I’m getting this 88h for free but I will need to help the bell out...
What would you have done and how much do you project your repair idea to cost?
Thanks.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Have a good Tech roll it out. It'll cost less than $100.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
That actually doesn't look... too bad. I mean it isn't good... it is pretty damaged though $100 might be generous for that much damage. Friend of mine had similar damage done to a Bach C trumpet a few years ago and Osmun charge around $300 BUT it honestly came out looking better than it did before the damage so still way cheaper than a new bell. EDIT: Meant to say in that case because it was a Bach 43(?) and Bach parts tend to be expensive and it was all silver plated.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
I've seen bells in worse shape restored by Bruce Belo. Other good techs can do this. Probably a few hundred $. Will probably want to be relacquered / refinished.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Thanks all!
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Depending on the price to repair might be worth a new bell. IIRC they are pretty cheap for that horn.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
The cost to re and re the bell + lacquer would be in the 100-200 range anyway, plus the cost of the bell. That crease should be repairable for a whole lot less. That said, if the valve and slide are in great shape I might also consider an new bell.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Actually, you might be surprised. I can definitely see this going either way as far as cost is concerned. You can actually order them lacquered and then the tech would just have to spot lacquer a new bell rather than delacquer it and then relacquer the whole thing because of the huge area affected by this crease. Probably the biggest factor is the tech you take it to; the local guys around here would charge a lot for that and more $ if you have to have it shipped off for lacquering.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
If you want a pristine bell, a new one will run you about $500 and take at least 4-6 weeks to order from C-S
Unless the rim is cracked where we can't see it, it's probably not a big deal to repair, and might not need to be relacquered.
Eric
Unless the rim is cracked where we can't see it, it's probably not a big deal to repair, and might not need to be relacquered.
Eric
Eric Edwards
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"If you must choose between two evils, choose the one you haven't tried yet."
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"If you must choose between two evils, choose the one you haven't tried yet."
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud." -Sophocles
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Well, Eric is about as definitive as a commenter as you can get for this! --- leaving my comments for sake of transparency!
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Umm Eric is mistaken. $186 for a run of the mill 88H bell from Conn. Literally just looked. Im trying to figure out how to add a screenshot but I can't find it on my phone haha.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Got it!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
I think that's the wholesale price. Good if can get it though. Are you planning on installing it yourself?
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
If the OP wanted me to, sure. Changing out a bell is a very easy job. I'd be happy to order him the bell, also. Techs pay the net price and shipping. How long it'd take to get is a totally different conversation.
Check out our new Pollard Sarastro line of mouthpieces: https://www.librassco.com/pollard-signature-series
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Cool, sounds like an inexpensive way to get a great horn.
As to changing a bell being easy ... while I can solder as good as the very best when it comes to PCBs, brass instruments - not so much. I'll get it soldered - make no mistake, but you may never want to look at it again.
As to changing a bell being easy ... while I can solder as good as the very best when it comes to PCBs, brass instruments - not so much. I'll get it soldered - make no mistake, but you may never want to look at it again.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Lol. Its not that bad after some practice. It's harder to align everything than the soldering. When it's a really complicated project i make a jig.BillO wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:37 pm Cool, sounds like an inexpensive way to get a great horn.
As to changing a bell being easy ... while I can solder as good as the very best when it comes to PCBs, brass instruments - not so much. I'll get it soldered - make no mistake, but you may never want to look at it again.
Check out our new Pollard Sarastro line of mouthpieces: https://www.librassco.com/pollard-signature-series
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
No, I'm NOT mistaken! You're doing everyone a disservice if you sell at the wholesale price!
Add handling, freight, insurance, your time for researching....
I'm really thinking of pulling a power/admin move and deleting that particular post.
If you want to sell at a loss, that's your concern. NOT any other self-respecting tech here on this forum or anywhere else!
Sorry to be pissy, but that grates my nerves.
Eric
Add handling, freight, insurance, your time for researching....
I'm really thinking of pulling a power/admin move and deleting that particular post.
If you want to sell at a loss, that's your concern. NOT any other self-respecting tech here on this forum or anywhere else!
Sorry to be pissy, but that grates my nerves.
Eric
Eric Edwards
Professional Instrument Repair
972.795.5784
"If you must choose between two evils, choose the one you haven't tried yet."
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud." -Sophocles
Professional Instrument Repair
972.795.5784
"If you must choose between two evils, choose the one you haven't tried yet."
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud." -Sophocles
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Why? I charge for my time, shop materials, shipping, tax if applicable, why do I need to charge retail on a bell if I don't want to? I have every right to sell a product at the price I choose, as do you of course. Conn Selmer got paid for their product, I got paid for my labor, nothing has been given away for free here. If you feel the need to delete that's your choice.Bonearzt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:05 pm No, I'm NOT mistaken! You're doing everyone a disservice if you sell at the wholesale price!
Add handling, freight, insurance, your time for researching....
I'm really thinking of pulling a power/admin move and deleting that particular post.
If you want to sell at a loss, that's your concern. NOT any other self-respecting tech here on this forum or anywhere else!
Sorry to be pissy, but that grates my nerves.
Eric
Check out our new Pollard Sarastro line of mouthpieces: https://www.librassco.com/pollard-signature-series
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Let me ask a question, what's your hourly rate? I charge $125/hr for my labor, then shop supplies. By your logic, would it not be a disservice to me if you charge less?
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Maybe what I should have said is it's not or shouldn't be public knowledge what the actual dealer price is.
Most people can roughly figure out the wholesale cost if they've spent any time in retail.
Yes you can charge whatever your customers will pay, entirely up to you.
My rate is none of your business.
Eric
Most people can roughly figure out the wholesale cost if they've spent any time in retail.
Yes you can charge whatever your customers will pay, entirely up to you.
My rate is none of your business.
Eric
Eric Edwards
Professional Instrument Repair
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"If you must choose between two evils, choose the one you haven't tried yet."
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud." -Sophocles
Professional Instrument Repair
972.795.5784
"If you must choose between two evils, choose the one you haven't tried yet."
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud." -Sophocles
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
It was a rhetorical question. What your shop rate is has nothing to do with me. Thats my point. Same as what i charge for parts has nothing to do with you. I'm sorry if the way I do billing offends you in some way, but being upfront, honest, and having 100% transparency is how I see it. The mark up on some of this stuff is heinous (not this particular item, unusually this is in reference to bach stuff, which i don't think anyone understands why it's double to triple the price of everyone else's parts), and unless I am forced to, I see no reason to be a part of it.Bonearzt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:11 am Maybe what I should have said is it's not or shouldn't be public knowledge what the actual dealer price is.
Most people can roughly figure out the wholesale cost if they've spent any time in retail.
Yes you can charge whatever your customers will pay, entirely up to you.
My rate is none of your business.
Eric
Last edited by LIBrassCo on Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
True, but posting the wholesale price as you did could put other techs at a distinct disadvantage.
You can quote whatever you want to your customers, but not on a public forum!
Actual wholesale pricing from a manufacturer is NOT for you to disclose, otherwise they wouldn't have it walled off from the public at large.
I personally don't care how you bill or what you charge or how you see it, but don't step on MY nuts to try to make yourself look like a hero!!
You can quote whatever you want to your customers, but not on a public forum!
Actual wholesale pricing from a manufacturer is NOT for you to disclose, otherwise they wouldn't have it walled off from the public at large.
I personally don't care how you bill or what you charge or how you see it, but don't step on MY nuts to try to make yourself look like a hero!!
Eric Edwards
Professional Instrument Repair
972.795.5784
"If you must choose between two evils, choose the one you haven't tried yet."
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud." -Sophocles
Professional Instrument Repair
972.795.5784
"If you must choose between two evils, choose the one you haven't tried yet."
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud." -Sophocles
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Bonearzt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:45 am True, but posting the wholesale price as you did could put other techs at a distinct disadvantage.
You can quote whatever you want to your customers, but not on a public forum!
Actual wholesale pricing from a manufacturer is NOT for you to disclose, otherwise they wouldn't have it walled off from the public at large.
I personally don't care how you bill or what you charge or how you see it, but don't step on MY nuts to try to make yourself look like a hero!!
Yes and no. Look at OE Thayer, instrument innovations, and the like. They are selling at essentially wholesale price to the public. My point being these kinds of prices are essentially public knowledge already.
With what i charge an hour, I'm no ones hero! At the end of the day im probably charging more, not less, just listed in a different way. Your nuts are safe!
Check out our new Pollard Sarastro line of mouthpieces: https://www.librassco.com/pollard-signature-series
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Well, that's THEIR prerogative.
Eric Edwards
Professional Instrument Repair
972.795.5784
"If you must choose between two evils, choose the one you haven't tried yet."
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud." -Sophocles
Professional Instrument Repair
972.795.5784
"If you must choose between two evils, choose the one you haven't tried yet."
"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud." -Sophocles
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
I agree, that's my point. A company can charge what they want. Part, labor, it doesnt matter. So like I said, I charge $186 plus shipping for the bell, if I'm the one installing it. It shouldnt matter where I say it, unless of course there's some policy against it here that I'm not aware of.
Check out our new Pollard Sarastro line of mouthpieces: https://www.librassco.com/pollard-signature-series
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Yeah, no violation of our terms of service. If CS forbids such knowledge being public we can obviously comply with taking it down if they'd like. That said, I don't think this knowledge does anything to hurt you Eric; the old adage of the piece of machinery being broken at a company... they hire someone to come in and they tap it with a hammer and fix it... company gets a bill of $10000 and demand for it to be itemized, to which the technician responds with:
Hammer: $2
Knowing where to hit with the hammer: $9800
I know that the local shop here revealed to me a lot of Yamaha pricing to be quite inexpesnve so I've actually been fixing up and trying out a number of Yamaha horns (and a few others that can be compatible) that I otherwise wouldn't have even considered. They've been making a... not smal amount of money... off of me in repairs recently and I've fixed up numerous horns. I know if I would have been using say, Shires parts it would have been completely infeasible. (E.g. got a new crook installed for ~$150 total I believe because the part was like $10, whereas from Shires that same operation would have been like $400 because the crook itself is expensive). So the shop got $140 off of me that I wouldn't have otherwise spent.
Hammer: $2
Knowing where to hit with the hammer: $9800
I know that the local shop here revealed to me a lot of Yamaha pricing to be quite inexpesnve so I've actually been fixing up and trying out a number of Yamaha horns (and a few others that can be compatible) that I otherwise wouldn't have even considered. They've been making a... not smal amount of money... off of me in repairs recently and I've fixed up numerous horns. I know if I would have been using say, Shires parts it would have been completely infeasible. (E.g. got a new crook installed for ~$150 total I believe because the part was like $10, whereas from Shires that same operation would have been like $400 because the crook itself is expensive). So the shop got $140 off of me that I wouldn't have otherwise spent.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Definitely possible to fix.Badgerm wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:24 pm https://photos.app.goo.gl/qdxHoG8GqwxL7jAh8
I’m getting this 88h for free but I will need to help the bell out...
What would you have done and how much do you project your repair idea to cost?
Thanks.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Great video! I'd seen it before, but I enjoyed watching it again.
Current instruments:
Olds Studio trombone, 3 trumpets, 1 flugelhorn, 1 cornet, 1 shofar, 1 keyboard
Previous trombones:
Selmer Bundy, Marceau
Olds Studio trombone, 3 trumpets, 1 flugelhorn, 1 cornet, 1 shofar, 1 keyboard
Previous trombones:
Selmer Bundy, Marceau
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
What a fulfilling job!!
Conn 112 H w/bored out rotors w/heavyweight caps, Sterling Silver Edward's B3 and Shires B3 leadpipe w/62H slide. Long Island Brass Comp Dimensions 29.5 inner rim .323 backbore solid silver lefreque
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
Until you get that customer that complains because it's not perfect. The wonders of unreasonable expectations.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
I absolutely have done that with Conn-Selmer and sent horns in for warranty repair when they did not arrive to me absolutely perfect. You are almost guaranteed to not get it 100% the first time with them, so I exercise the warranty and they do make it perfect the second go around. For that, they are really a great company honoring their warranty. I do believe perfection is warranted when the premium is paid for buying new.
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Re: Smashed 88h Bell...
As a guy who depends heavily on professional repair techs and wants many of them to continue to be around in the future, I know I don't appreciate it when one of them screws over the others. Please act like a professional! (And ask C-S whether they want you to post that info.) Thank you.
Tom in San Francisco
Currently playing...
Bach Corp 16M
Many French horns
Currently playing...
Bach Corp 16M
Many French horns