Olds Ambassador opinions

[Arrowhead]

I was looking at Olds as I've been looking into getting a small bore f attachment bone on a student budget for jazz and pep band due to confined spaces. That's actually been harder than I expected.

Olds Recording w/F att. (Fullerton 70's era). You should be able to get one of these for under $500, and they don't have the issue with taking only certain kinds of mouthpieces.

[RConrad]

Olds Recording w/F att. (Fullerton 70's era). You should be able to get one of these for under $500, and they don't have the issue with taking only certain kinds of mouthpieces.

I'll have to keep an eye out for one. Most of the ones I've been are a bit outside of my range. Thinking a ysl-356r might be just fine if I can't find something else.

[TBoneHalfNote]

On, no - it's do sad!
You know guys - you are so lucky out there in the US. I'm looking at what's offered for shipping to the 'US only' on eBay and I see wonderful student horns like this one for instance (Martin Indiana 1959 in near perfect condition):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273673605841

An there are tons of such offers that are limited to the US buyers only. As I noticed the majority of US eBay sellers no longer want to ship internationally and for us, buyers outside of the US we occasionally get offers that are triple the average price and most of the time it's some sort of junk.

So lucky you are and so poor we are

[BGuttman]

The reason for the reticence of American sellers to ship overseas is the Customs and Duties that are imposed. Sometimes they can double or triple the sell price. Sometimes goods can be purloined (stolen, but legally) by the Customs agents and the shipment never gets to the buyer.

If you are in EU, buy from somebody who is also in EU. That will probably be your best bet.

[ghmerrill]

I wonder if it's really more a matter of unfamiliarity with the process and a reluctance to get involved with learning what forms are necessary and how to make them out. The few times I've sent stuff out of the US, it was trouble free. Of course, that may depend on where you're sending it to. But I've sent mouthpieces to Europe, Brazil, and Australia. Certainly not any worse than shipping certain items within the US (since sometimes both USPS and commercial shippers seem quite confused about what regulations explicitly permit).

[TBoneHalfNote]

10 years ago 80% of the US eBay sellers were happy to ship internationally. At that time I bought couple dozens of vintage saxophones off the US eBay. The only problem was to package them correctly and most sellers did that at my request. That period lasted for 5 years or so since then.
Then the Global Shipping program was introduced to eBay and that was the buyer's nightmare. Most of the US sellers still kept shipping overseas though.
A year ago the GSP still worked but at the time being I see absolutely no listings with the GSP enabled. Have they terminated the program? On the one hand there is nothing wrong with that because inserting a third party in the process was nothing good at all. Many buyers complained about recuced packaging at the GSP centers and you can imagine what that means in respect to musical instruments, especially to those that come in the old style carrying cases. Their shipping charges were also much higher when compared to USPS.
On the other hand once the program closed (?) or is no longer used by the US sellers the number of sellers willing to ship internationally reduced dramatically.

[Geordie]

I’ve iimported two horns from USA to UK. Great horns, great sellers. The PITA was the import duty and VAT which significantly increased costs.

[TBoneHalfNote]

...on eBay and I see wonderful student horns like this one for instance (Martin Indiana 1959 in near perfect condition):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273673605841
...
So lucky you are and so poor we are

Heh-heh, I though someone will get that diamond for peanuts and later on will boast on trombone forums about grabbing a real bargain Martin Indiana in near new condition. Let's see how the auction ends. Sometimes there is no way to tell in advance the amount of final bid. Maybe $300? Not sure.

Anyway, according to my eBay experience there is rarely a chance to get a clean closet horn (of any type) for little $$$. I was under an impression many a time that I'm getting a bargain with my last few seconds shooting bid only to find out later that someone bid significantly higher than me (and a few others) to win it.
That way I learned that if I needed to get something badly I had to be generous. Still didin't work all the time because someone wanted the item more than me.

[drbucher]

I had one from fifth grade through high school and into college. I played two difficult solos on it, getting negative feedback from the judges on the sound, especially at high volume. I recently heard a video by a young guy trying to sell one: awful indescribably bad sound. I am horrified that I probably sounded like that, though I don't blame my dad, who played clarinet and saw no reason to buy a better one.
Don't put yourself or any kid through that. It's ok for a beginner needing the basics, but commit to a better one when basic proficiency has been attained, or teach him/her how to play it with some restraint on a proper mouthpiece, probably a Bach 11c or 12c.

[BillO]

I had one from fifth grade through high school and into college. Don't put yourself or any kid through that. Get a trombone of higher quality with a good sound.

I too started on an Olds Ambassador. There are better trombones but I don't remember it being truly horrible. You could do a lot worse.

[Cotboneman]

Olds valve instruments were much better than the slide instruments. Also, the last Olds Ambassador came from Fullerton in the early 1970s; almost 50 years ago.

I played an Ambassador with F for a number of years. It's OK, but not stellar. You could probably find a newer instrument that will work better. Perhaps a King 606 (or its antecedent, the 605), a Conn Director (several models). Yamaha 354's are really good (and not Chinese -- they are Japanese). You could also look at a Besson Oxford, Holton Collegiate, Martin indiana, Weril, or Jupiter (which is actually made in Taiwan).

That said, some Chinese instruments are a reasonable starting point. Something from Wessex Tubas, JP-Rath (JP stands for John Packer, an English dealer), and Mack Brass are usually much better than the average Ebay special.

I had a JP/Rath large bore for a few years and I would say they are excellent, with a very good to excellent build quality. I sold it when I acquired a great Conn Gen II 88HYO earlier this year, following my policy that if a new horn comes into my home, something already there has to go!

When I started playing in school back in the early 1960's all our Chicago Public Schools had were Olds Ambassadors. Their valve instruments were terrific. The trombone I felt was heavy and clunky, but of course it might have just been a poorly maintained public school instrument. A trumpet player friend who I play with in a brass quintet still uses as his principal cornet the Olds Ambassador. He gets a great sound on it. I actually started my brass journey on one too.

[rzeilinger]

Also... the Olds Ambassador weight?

I own 1 of each Olds tenor trombones

Here's an interesting piece of Data.
I weighed the Olds Ambassador and an Olds super (pro level)

The Ambassador has a lighter outer slide and whole slide than the Olds Super by about an entire ounce.
IN FACT the Entire Olds Super is heavier than the Olds Ambassador.

If you do some research you will find that Olds states, they manufactured all their trombones with the exact same standards and tolerances across all their trombones. The differences are subtle regarding the use of various metals on the horns and braces used. There also may be subtle differences in the flare of the bell section.

Ambassadors needed to be more affordable for mass production and student budgets, so it has more brass parts and fewer nickle or copper (like the special bell) parts, it has a more economical brace design...BUT it is the same Slide material and Dual Bore design as the special, studio and super.

I don't know of many if any student models with a Dual Bore Slide. This is a feature normally designed for more advanced trombones, but Olds made them for their Ambassadors (f trigger and straight tenor)

Get a good one with a great slide and you have a wonderful trombone to enjoy.

[Leanit]

The Olds Ambassador slides are astonishingly sturdy.

[JohnD]

Got two oft these, made around 1960. They play like a sort of a heavy 2b which I always preferred. One slide was replated. Nice horns anyway.

[Mamaposaune]

Also... the Olds Ambassador weight?

I own 1 of each Olds tenor trombones



Here's an interesting piece of Data.
I weighed the Olds Ambassador and an Olds super (pro level)
Agree on all of this. The Ambassador is a lightweight, well-balanced horn. IMO, they play as well as any student-level trombone, and better than many. If the slide has not been abused, it can be great!
The downsides: * There are many out there for sale, but it is difficult to find one that is in good shape and has been well maintained.
* The odd-sized mouthpiece receiver, a normal mp will fit but sticks out more than normal.
* The slide is narrow, putting the gooseneck right up against your cheek or neck.
* The handslide brace is not adjustable, so if the alignment is off it is more difficult to repair.

The Ambassador has a lighter outer slide and whole slide than the Olds Super by about an entire ounce.
IN FACT the Entire Olds Super is heavier than the Olds Ambassador.

If you do some research you will find that Olds states, they manufactured all their trombones with the exact same standards and tolerances across all their trombones. The differences are subtle regarding the use of various metals on the horns and braces used. There also may be subtle differences in the flare of the bell section.

Ambassadors needed to be more affordable for mass production and student budgets, so it has more brass parts and fewer nickle or copper (like the special bell) parts, it has a more economical brace design...BUT it is the same Slide material and Dual Bore design as the special, studio and super.

I don't know of many if any student models with a Dual Bore Slide. This is a feature normally designed for more advanced trombones, but Olds made them for their Ambassadors (f trigger and straight tenor)

Get a good one with a great slide and you have a wonderful trombone to enjoy.

[wayne88ny]

Joe Skrzynski (2nd trombone in the Detroit Symphony for many years) thought that the Olds Ambassador was the best student trombone (this was back in the 1970's) Here are some others to consider

Getzen 300 or 400 series - the more recent ones - the ones with the round counter weight - Steve Ferguson reviewed them and said they played as well as the Getzen professional trombones
Kanstul 750
Holton Collegiate - The one I tried played like a professional trombone. Maybe I just got lucky
Conn Director - from the Elkhart era, serial number "N..." or earlier. I know these are 50+ years old, but Conn made a lot of them so there are still some out there in very good condition.
Conn Connquest - Elkhart Era intermediate trombone - supposed to be excellent.

Check out reverb for used trombones - here are some outstanding buys

Getzen 400 series $299 + $50 shipping
Holton Special $350 - free shipping
Martin Committee $325 + $75 shipping

The Special and the Committee are highly desirable professional trombones

Blessing BTB-880 $300 + $100 shipping

I know I'm going to get some flack about the bore being too large for a beginner. I respectfully disagree. It's too heavy for a young kid, the OP is an adult.

[blap73]

I've got an Ambassador w/F bell section. One thing, I found pushing dents out of the bell was substantially more difficult than a King 606. Eventually I took a micrometer to the bell and confirmed the metal thickness is heavier on the Olds than on the King 606. Further, by my (not accurate) measurements, the bell is thicker than the "heavy gauge" version of the Edwards Tenor bell. Was this because it was a student horn and aimed to be rugged? Or is that just an Olds characteristic...

[JohnD]

My Olds Ambassdor trombone ('64 model) plays like a charme. Fine intonation, speaks fast. Superb high range. Got a fat sound on it, beats the 3B easily in this regard. I love the heavy bell.
Slide was replated, now like new - or better?

Nice...

[rzeilinger]

I've got an Ambassador w/F bell section. One thing, I found pushing dents out of the bell was substantially more difficult than a King 606. Eventually I took a micrometer to the bell and confirmed the metal thickness is heavier on the Olds than on the King 606. Further, by my (not accurate) measurements, the bell is thicker than the "heavy gauge" version of the Edwards Tenor bell. Was this because it was a student horn and aimed to be rugged? Or is that just an Olds characteristic...

I found that ALL the Olds Trombones had heavy Bells which is a very desirable custom feature with todays boutique manufacturers.

Olds Said.....One standard, different price points (I'm paraphrasing) The bells on my Ambassador, Special, Studio and even the super all feel "thick" compared to Kings, Bachs, Conn's, Getzen, Beuscher and even my Martin's.

Oddly enough the Reynolds and Holton Trombones in the 50's-70's feel very similar to the Olds.
I find while Reynolds and Holton made great jazz and concert trombones, there really isn't anything quite as solid as and Olds. I also have an Olds Opera which I play when I get bored with my Bach 42 or Conn 88H, the opera just feels like an the American Muscle cars of trombones. It's a shame they're gone. What awesome instruments.

[drbucher]

Perhaps with a good mouthpiece it might not sound so brassy.

[thejoed]

Love my '54 Olds Special.
Nickel/brass bell is bright (but that's what you want), and has a character to its looks that sets it apart from the other "student" horns. Looks don't matter.... but they kind of do.
Schilke 47B mouthpiece sticks out a little too far, but has never hindered my playing, not really an issue.

I've heard the Special called a poor man's 2B, I like it.

[Matt4576]

I have a Fullerton (1959) Ambassador. Got it for $60 off of Craigslist. It plays just fine and, while it has almost no lacquer left, there is hardly a dent in it. It's definitely heavier and built better than a modern student horn.

I have the olds 3 mouthpiece and agree it works well with it. 6 1/2 AL is too big for it. A 7 works to tone down the brightness of the olds 3 mouthpiece and a 9 takes it even a step farther and sounds pretty good.

If you are going to get a student horn, I would recommend buying it locally and not off of ebay. A lot of the people who churn school used instruments through ebay don't know how to properly evaluate a slide. I bought one off ebay that they said the slide works great and it was really sluggish. A non-trombonist wouldn't know the difference but to me it was barely playable. There are a lot of student trombones on Facebook marketplace that you can go try out and get for cheap too.

[MikeSweetsLord]

Love my '54 Olds Special.
Nickel/brass bell is bright (but that's what you want), and has a character to its looks that sets it apart from the other "student" horns. Looks don't matter.... but they kind of do.
Schilke 47B mouthpiece sticks out a little too far, but has never hindered my playing, not really an issue.

I've heard the Special called a poor man's 2B, I like it.

Id like to echo the "Poor man's 2B" reference. I left high school and knew my theory well. 'Twas only by sitting next to a committed musician in the bone section did I learn SOMETHING about the horn through osmosis (Our teacher didn't teach any instrument skills). University instructor/symphony player tells me to go get a better horn than my Oxford, so I wind up with a new '72 rose brass Special which was all i knew for the next 25 years. One day while in the local music shop I see the new 2B on clearance for half of MSP so ask to play it. Quite the revelation. A slide that does what it's supposed to, combined with something approaching the sound I hoped for with a comfortable feel to me who'd only known the Olds Special. Jumped onto that and haven't regretted it. A long-winded story but I had to do something to get my third post in!

[atopper333]

Just picked up an Olds Ambassador for my kid who wants to start playing. A little bit of elbow grease to clean it up and it is t half bad. Not gonna win any beauty contests but it’s a tank. Played a bit on it and man, it’s not that bad at all! Takes a little bit in the upper register…but not too bad at all. Must’ve got a Monday horn! Can’t complain given that it cost a whole $7.00…

[Posaunus]

Must’ve got a Monday horn! Can’t complain given that it cost a whole $7.00…