What is a C Trigger??

[rcktmiller]

Hello.. this is my first time here and will apologize un advance for what will most likely be a simple question. My son is in High School jazz band (freshman). Before we moved cities, he played a Yamaha trombone with a C Trigger in middle school. Where have now moved, everyplace he calls asking for a Yamaha or Jupiter trombone with a C Trigger, he gets shrugs.

Is a C-trigger an F Attachment tuned to C???

Thank you in advance for your aid!

[BGuttman]

He probably played the Yamaha 350C. This is a C trombone with a reverse acting Bb trigger. I.e. when the valve is not actuated the instrument uses the extra tubing and is in Bb just like a normal trombone. When he presses the trigger, the extra tubing is bypassed and he gets C and F in 1st position just like an F-attachment.

Why do this? Most beginners will really need an F-attachment for the outer position notes F, E, C, and B natural. A reverse acting Bb trigger on a C trombone lets you get these distant position notes just like an F attachment but with a lot less weight.

A few of us have reversed the trigger on a 350C so it is a C trombone with a Bb trigger. Is this better? I think the jury is still out on that.

Net of this, ask for a Yamaha 350C or equivalent and see what response you get.

[rcktmiller]

Thank you so much... if they dont have the 350C, would an F Attachment be much of an adjustment for him since he played the 350C for the last two of the three years he has played?

[sirisobhakya]

If your son only mainly use the C trigger for C and B, and no other alternate position (such as G in first), I don’t think there is much to adjust, apart from remembering that low F is now playable in first, and other low note are also playable. If he regularly plays 1st, maybe nothing to adjust at all, since he would very rarely play the low notes anyway.

[Burgerbob]

Most high school kids don't know that the valve is an F valve and use it only for C and B. It could very well be an F attachment.

[Doug Elliott]

The two reasons the Yamaha 350C exists are:

It's a great option for smaller students because it's lightweight and the low C and B are in 1st and 2nd position. (as previously mentioned).
and
It's an easy transition to a more standard F attachment since those notes are also in 1st and 2nd position.

The 350C is the only horn like that I know of, although I think I saw a Chinese copy once.

[BillO]

It's an easy transition to a more standard F attachment since those notes are also in 1st and 2nd position.

Except that on an F-att B is in quite a different place. This seems to confuse a lot of younger players making the transition. Well, I've only personally known 2 of them, but both seem to have a hard time playing anything but a horribly sharp B. A muscle memory thing I guess. With work and experience they will get through it.

If your son is roughly adult sized and can handle an extra 1/2 pound or so in the weight, then go ahead and get him a trombone with a F-att. As previously mentioned there are not too many C/Bb trombones made so no real choice and probably not much re-sale market. F-att trombones are arguably the most prevalent trombone these days. He just has to remember that B and E are in a long 2nd position on the F valve as apposed to using the valve on the Yamaha 350C. In fact, all the 'regular' positions on the 350C are a little shorter than on a Bb instrument.

The two kids I know that transitioned tend to play sharp quite a bit in the longer positions (4TH, 5TH). I'd advise moving him over to something mainstream sooner rather than later. The longer he plays on the small trombone, the harder it will be for him to adjust.

[JohnL]

Most high school kids don't know that the valve is an F valve and use it only for C and B. It could very well be an F attachment.

The OP should have their son look at the Yamaha page for the YSL-350C and see if that's what he remembers the horn looking like (with particular attention to the length of the valve tubing). If that doesn't look like it, browsing around a website with a lot of different makes and models of trombone (like dillonmusic.com or wwbw.com) should result in finding something like what he played at his old school.

[RConrad]

The two reasons the Yamaha 350C exists are:

It's a great option for smaller students because it's lightweight and the low C and B are in 1st and 2nd position. (as previously mentioned).
and
It's an easy transition to a more standard F attachment since those notes are also in 1st and 2nd position.

The 350C is the only horn like that I know of, although I think I saw a Chinese copy once.

I wish I had one of these when I started playing. I could barely reach 6th, I still drop my shoulder to get 7th. Anyhow I think John Packer and Bach have versions, that are probably Chinese copies, that they sell in Europe.

[Doug Elliott]

I was 8 when I started, and couldn't reach 6th. I used a string tied to the brace and my finger so I could just let go and it would fall to 6th. I think I played that way for about a year.

[andym]

A friend’s son is playing one with an ascending C valve in Norway that apparently has no markings on it. So there are definitely some knockoffs circulating in Europe.

[2bobone]

Seeing this subject kicking around on the forum reminds me of a trombone trigger setup that I encountered back in the 1960s on a smallbore Conn with TIS that I discovered in a pawnshop. When throwing the trigger in first position B Flat, you got a B Flat ! Does anyone out there have any idea what the idea was behind that setup ? I had a tech friend reconfigure it into an F valve and got some use out of it. It was a beautiful sounding horn and I recall our principal trombone using it to play Ravel's "Bolero" on it to great effect. Probably closer to what Ravel had in mind when writing the piece. The horn had a curious marking on it that, at the time, I had no idea what it meant. It was stamped ALLQQ ! It wasn't until many years later that I realized it was either a factory stamping of a model specifically designed for Marcel Alloo of The Boston Symphony, or perhaps was a personal horn of Monsieur Alloo himself ! The Q's that were used instead of O's really threw me off. I passed it along to a friend at The Smithsonian Institution Music Division and the last I heard, it was destined to be in the collection of the National Music Museum in Vermillion, South Dakota. However, a quick check on their online catalogue did not show it listed.
Apologies if I drifted away from the "thread", but it was only by a "step" ---- C to B Flat ----- Cheers !!

[harrisonreed]

Sounds like that "F attachment" rotated the rotor 360 degrees. Outstanding

[BGuttman]

There was a Conn "Alloo" model straight horn. You can find specs on it on the Conn Loyalist.

Many "Preacher Trombones" were C trombones with a manual valve to convert to Bb. The Conn 61H was such an instrument. You used the rotor similar to Bb cornets with a manual rotor to A. I.e. you either used it as a Bb instrument or a C instrument.