Could someone fill me in on how the Rath trombones with slide to bell wingnut works?
I have an old contrabass with a friction fit slide and am looking for ways to make a more secure connection between the bell and slide without cutting on the horn. Any thoughts or ideas are welcome.
Rath Slide to Bell locking system
-
Fafner
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:18 pm
- Location: Boston, MA
-
BGuttman
- Posts: 6370
- Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
- Location: Cow Hampshire
Re: Rath Slide to Bell locking system
Basically you could do the same thing by cutting a slot in the receiver and putting a hose clamp over it.
I had a similar attachment system on my first tromobone, a Getzen Deluxe (which it wasn't). The thumbscrew adjustment on that horn was also the tuning slide. Ugh.
Personally, unless you need to do a lot of contortions around the bell on a friction fit you are best off just using it as is.
I had a similar attachment system on my first tromobone, a Getzen Deluxe (which it wasn't). The thumbscrew adjustment on that horn was also the tuning slide. Ugh.
Personally, unless you need to do a lot of contortions around the bell on a friction fit you are best off just using it as is.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
-
Doug Elliott
- Posts: 3424
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:12 pm
- Location: Maryand
Re: Rath Slide to Bell locking system
I don't think it would be a big job to install a standard nut, ring, and threaded ring. I have considered doing that on a couple of my friction fit horns. But I haven't actually tried it.
I'd rather do that than cut a slot, which wouldn't be effective on a taper anyway. You need a straight non-tapered section for that to work.
I'd rather do that than cut a slot, which wouldn't be effective on a taper anyway. You need a straight non-tapered section for that to work.
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
-
JohnL
- Posts: 1895
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:01 am
- Contact:
Re: Rath Slide to Bell locking system
Does the current friction fit work as it should? You should be able to get a very solid fit with a slight "push and twist" - solid enough that it takes significant effort to separate the parts. If that's not the case, the first thing to try is making sure the mating surfaces are completely clean and dry. Get a little oil on one surface and the joint just won't grab properly.
The other common issue is that the surfaces have worn down to the point that the male part is bottoming out, preventing the taper parts from fully engaging. That's just a matter of getting a good tech to take a little bit off the end of the male part.
I own a few vintage Olds trombones with "clamp-augmented" friction fit joints (like these: http://itsabear.com/horns/LA_Doubles/LA_Doubles.html). The clamp is just a little bit of extra security - if the friction fit is loose, the clamp won't do any good.
As for Rath? That's a whole 'nother ball game. No taper at all. The two mating parts are closely fitted and the clamp does the rest. Rath's clamping mechanism is noticeably beefier than the one Olds used back in the day.
The other common issue is that the surfaces have worn down to the point that the male part is bottoming out, preventing the taper parts from fully engaging. That's just a matter of getting a good tech to take a little bit off the end of the male part.
I own a few vintage Olds trombones with "clamp-augmented" friction fit joints (like these: http://itsabear.com/horns/LA_Doubles/LA_Doubles.html). The clamp is just a little bit of extra security - if the friction fit is loose, the clamp won't do any good.
As for Rath? That's a whole 'nother ball game. No taper at all. The two mating parts are closely fitted and the clamp does the rest. Rath's clamping mechanism is noticeably beefier than the one Olds used back in the day.
-
Fafner
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:18 pm
- Location: Boston, MA
Re: Rath Slide to Bell locking system
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
This is a contrabass trombone so it is a little bit of a different beast from other friction fittings. It's made as light as it can be made, but it's still very heavy. There's nothing like having the bell section twist down when you're in the middle of a piece.
It does have a taper to the two pieces so the Rath fitting is out. I don't think I'm going to be cutting on this horn myself and would probably be best off sucking it up and paying to have a very good technician put a standard screw fitting on it when I decide to update the linkage. I'm also thinking of having some form of a Haynor system installed when the time comes.
Right now I have a "mini" Ring Cycle to play next month so I'll have to make due. I'm thinking about securing it with two hose clamps over a neoprene sleeve with a thumbscrew on one end... off to the hardware store.
This is a contrabass trombone so it is a little bit of a different beast from other friction fittings. It's made as light as it can be made, but it's still very heavy. There's nothing like having the bell section twist down when you're in the middle of a piece.
It does have a taper to the two pieces so the Rath fitting is out. I don't think I'm going to be cutting on this horn myself and would probably be best off sucking it up and paying to have a very good technician put a standard screw fitting on it when I decide to update the linkage. I'm also thinking of having some form of a Haynor system installed when the time comes.
Right now I have a "mini" Ring Cycle to play next month so I'll have to make due. I'm thinking about securing it with two hose clamps over a neoprene sleeve with a thumbscrew on one end... off to the hardware store.